Quote:
Originally posted by Brandon2390:
Where that argument is wong though, is that even though rap artists might not actually do the action of playing the instruments, they have programs to help them do so, and are just as hard to work as the real thing. Rap beats can be just as complicated as rock beats, while most rap has better lyrics at the same time. I prefer rap, and I also think it's harder to do. |
You missed the point. The point is that on a machine it's programmed and it's the same thing over and over and over again, while with a human, he may get the impulse to improvise and make it a little bit different, play a tiny drum riff different than he normally would, etc. You don't have that on a machine. You can't have Jaco Pastorius on rap. And if you don't know who he is, well, he's one of the greatest bassists in the history of the world, and if you listen to his stuff, you'll see that often there isn't a pattern at all to what's being played, it's all improvised. And that's another thing that rap doesn't have, at least instrumentally, which is musical improvisation.
Freestyling is damn hard, and it's improvisation, I'll give you that. But now, try, as a band with more than just one person showing off at a time and every musician depending on each other to make the song work (this isn't the case in rap, in which during a freestyle only one person is rapping, with occasional "uh"'s and "yeah"'s from others), to improvise a theme from scratch, every single member staying on time, on key, and also managing change things every now and then so that they're not sticking on the same theme and boring the hell out of people. Don't forget that you have to solo over it. And you need
years of musical training and a very good musical ear (musical ear isn't at all necessary in rap) just to make out what key everyone else is on and, if the soloist suddenly decides to do something differently that doesn't fit what's being played at the moment, you have to, in a matter of seconds, find out what the soloist is doing so you can accompany him. It's much simpler when you're rapping to do something like that, but on an instrument it becomes a lot harder. For example, if anyone here is a musician, try the following: improvise a melody in your head. The first melody that comes to your mind. Now, find an instrument, and, without room for a single failure, play that melody. You see my point? That takes years of practice, and I should know, I'm a guitarist. So don't try to tell me that rap requires more skill.
Both types of music can be taken to very complex levels (people like Big Pun have showed us so; that's another one of the few rappers that I like), and yet both types of music have the most simplistic idiots who don't really seem to even try at all getting rich off of it. Don't believe me? Look at G Unit and the All-American Rejects. Both are terrible and have no talent, and yet both are very mainstream. And both have great talent. However, it is my belief that talent in rock can reach a higher peak than it can in rap. Just look at musicians like King Crimson, Steve Vai (who, by the way, puts on an INCREDIBLE show), and Jeff Beck. To reach the level that they've reached, it takes about 8 hours of practice every day for several years.
314, I used to be obsessed with If Nirvana, but then I moved on to better things. The typical Nirvana song is composed of four hastily integrated power chords, half-a-minute-long solos with 4 or 5 notes, and some nonsensical lyrics that Kurt wrote up in about 5 minutes because he'd been procrastinating on them throughout the whole song-writing process (Kurt said it himself in an interview that he did that). Now, art, unless it's modern art, usually takes a bit of work. Nirvana's songs have little to no effort behind them, not only from Kurt but also from Krist and Dave. Krist Novoselic is great at playing root notes, and Dave rarely plays anything other than basic drum patterns. The simple truth is that Nirvana were NOT good musicians, and people have always been trying to coax me into believing that they were merely because they like Nirvana. He was a good songwriter, I'll give him that, but he wasn't talented. Look at John Lennon: great songwriter, but as a guitarist he knew all of three chords. The fact that you like them has nothing to do with their talent, and I also think it's disgraceful that Rolling Stone put him high up in their 100 Great Guitarist Ever list above monsters like Santana merely because he has a larger following.
I've even read Kurt's biography (this was when I was obsessed with him), and I don't think he's a hero. I think he's a weak-minded baby for wallowing in his own misery instead of standing on his own two feet and trying to do something about his problems, like normal, assertive people would. Other people, like Santana and even Anthony Kiedis (Red Hot Chili Peppers) have gone through his same problems and have managed to come clean. Besides, it wasn't money and fame that drew him to suicide, it was heroin. It caused him serious social problems with everyone around him, including band members and family and made him more and more unpredictable. He had an erratic behaviour, and frankly, after having read his biography, it's my conclusion that Kurt was simply an a**hole. He was greedy, selfish, and hurtful towards his closest friends. He was no hero. What did he ever do for anyone to merit the "hero" title? And hey, if money was causing him so much chagrin, why didn't he give it away to some charity?
I can, however, understand that you like Nirvana, as I used to. I mean, no matter how influential a band is or whatever else they may have done, it all comes down to a simple thing: whether you like them or not. And I'm not gonna say that you suck for liking Nirvana, as it's not really anyone's personal choice what their tastes are (although it could easily be influenced by the general culture of society and friends around them). I still don't think it's fair to call Nirvana "art."
You want ART? Listen to Pink Floyd or King Crimson. And while you're at it, think about the fact that that music was written in the 70s and was completely innovative, and the closest think to that type of music at the time was Jimi Hendrix, which isn't really very close. And THAT, my friend, is art.
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Quote of the week:
"Liz, women are easy.
State capitals are hard!" - Bart Simpson.
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On an American one-dollar bill, there is an owl in the upper left-hand corner of the "1" encased in the "shield" and a spider hidden in the front upper right-hand corner.
[ June 30, 2004, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: Just across from Wayne's Junk Store ]