[Dai Grepher]

darkintention: First, Dai, that was some pretty in depth map work there. I can see how, given only the in game maps, the Tourians don't line up and why that might lead it to seem that Zero Mission and Metroid are not the same thing.

Dai Grepher: Thank you.

darkintention: But there's more to timeline placement maps. You have to take in artistic intent. And the artistic intent of Zero Mission was to update Metroid. The intent was to change the map, add new mini-bosses, upgrade Kraid and Ridley to there more formidable Super Metroid forms, and to add an extended area after the original game.

Dai Grepher: I know that, and I have said that I wouldn't expect the game to be the same structure in every case. However, it must be consistent with that which is seen in the game's sequel. The only area that they had to make consistent was Tourian's Mother Brain room. Since they made it to be similar opposites then I think that is proof enough that they did not intend for Zero Mission to replace Metroid, since Metroid is still the most accurate telling of events. IF they remake Super Metroid to fit Zero Mission, then I would say that Zero Mission is a remake.

darkintention: The quotes you brought up support this argument, not your own.

"[We wanted to]...retell the story of Samus' original mission."

As said, you cannot retell something that hasn't already been told. While you counter that Samus is retelling a mission we have not heard, it is not Samus saying it is a retelling. Sakamoto and his team is doing the retelling in this quote.

Dai Grepher: Possible, but still possible for him to be referring to the game that is retelling the mission. Considering the proof that I presented from the games and the Zero Mission box, it is more likely that he is talking about Samus retelling the mission with the game itself. After all, he did begin by say that they wanted to return to the roots of Metroid gameplay, and that was by using the game to portray that experience. Plus, he said that it would retell Samus' original mission, which could mean her first mission, not Metroid. If he were referring to Metroid then I think he would have said so.

darkintention: Therefore the begining set up of Samus telling a story doesn't even relate to this quote. The intent is obvious that Zero Mission is a retelling of the Metroid (the "original mission" from the game creator's standpoint).

Dai Grepher: The "original mission" could be her first mission, not Metroid.

darkintention: "So if we were to say it was a completely new game we wouldn't be entirely off-base."

Your taking this quote out of context. At this point it time, MZM had been unveiled as a remake. The director is simply saying that while it is a remake of Metroid, there is a bunch of new gameplay concepts in the game, and that it can be a new playing expereince even for Metroid Vets. In fact, this even discredits your evidence by showing that the maps of MZM were diliberately changed for the remake.

Dai Grepher: Now you are putting words in his mouth. What he said does not imply that at all, but actually the opposite. He was referring to the gameplay style of Metroid. Zero Mission did in fact copy Metroid's gameplay style, but was made different enough to be considered a new style all its own, a completely different game.
This says nothing about the maps or the supposed intention of a remake. You seem to be making things up now.

darkintention: "Metroid: Zero Mission begins right where the original Metroid game opened, as Samus Aran infiltrates Mother Brain's massive complex below the surface of planet Zebes."

This quote automatically disproves your theory. MZM cannot be a prequel if it starts at the exact same point (spacially and timewise) as Metroid.

Dai Grepher: The original opened with the storyline. That storyline refers to prior missions! Zero Mission begins where the original opened with past missions. That is why they intentionally added the quote that states Zero Mission is Samus' first adventure. In addition they also retold the story of Metroid in the Zero Mission manual, which may have also been what Sakamoto was referring to, in order to prove that Zero Mission comes before Metroid. It clearly states that Metroid had prior missions, and Zero Mission states that it was the very first.

darkintention: All these quotes can be turned to support your theory, but that goes against their obvious intent. I could say "MZM is a remake of Metroid," and you could reply, "It means that MZM remakes Metroid's place in the series by making it the second game in the timeline. That statment actually supports my theory," but that's obviously not my intent. And that is really what you are doing with a lot of these quotes from Nintendo.

Dai Grepher: I say the same thing about you and some of the others here. You are the one twisting quotes, or ignoring them in order to suit your theory.

darkintention: Besides, think of the PR side. If this was really a different story that Metroid, wouldn't Nintendo's PR state clearly and obviously that it is a different story istead of using language that refers specifically to the NES game when a reference to the Metroid Series as a whole would do; giving a "reworked version of the events"; and the like?

Dai Grepher: They may think that they have been clear enough. It is obvious just by playing the games that they are different missions. If it really is a remake, then why didn't Sakamoto call it that, and why are the Nitnendo representatives now stating that it is a different game?

darkintention: Finally, the Tourian area in Super Metroid is meant more as an nice suprise for Metroid players than anything else. Its suposed to be there so people who played Metroid will go, "hey there is Tourian from Metroid!" Even though it isn't perfect, the fact is that Zero Mission is incorporating the aspects of 1st Tourian. By creating the secret niche below Mother Brain in both MZM and SM, the designers are showing the goal of continuty between the two.

Dai Grepher: That is how they are showing the major differences! That area beneath the brain pod is undamaged, and they made it that way to show that it is not the one in Super Metroid, which appears to be as damaged as the rest of the chamber.
http://img203.echo.cx/img203/9697/da...parison9yh.png
As you can see, the image to the left shows a firm structure, while the one on the right shows a damaged one. If Zero Mission replaces Metroid, then we should find Tourain exactly how we left it. You can’t say that while designing this the creators didn’t stop to think about how it wouldn’t match up with what is seen in Super Metroid. The differences are far too great for this to be a remake, no matter what anyone says to the contrary.
The Tourian in Super Metroid was not there as a surprise, it was there to establish continuity in the series, and create a path from Crateria to Brinstar, as well as reuse the same escape path as before.

darkintention: As others have said, when a game is 90% similar to another game, and the creators say it is a remake, and the 10% difference can be accounted as intential from statments by the creators, the game is most likely a remake, despite small map incositancies.

Dai Grepher: The game is only about 5% similar to Metroid, and that is because of the basic storyline elements that exist between every game. The creators never said that it was a remake. The director said that it was based on the original’s gameplay. The differences are far too great, and have never been addressed by the creators at all. These inconsistencies are astronomical. To make anything less of them is to deny the facts.
http://img203.echo.cx/img203/518/des...rainpod5js.png
Look at this comparison and see if you can still honestly say that the differences are minor. I challenge you to ask someone that you know if those two images are similar or different and listen to what they say. Obviously what suit Samus is wearing makes no difference, but ask them about the surroundings and see what they tell you. I am sure the answer won’t be that they are similar. The brain pod is completely obliterated and nothing but a pile of rubble, but in Super Metroid the pod is still there, along with the equipment and even the glass. You cannot argue against these facts.

darkintention: That probably won't make you change your mind, but I thought I'd add my comments nonetheless.

Dai Grepher: Thank you for your input.