Downloading Unlicensed Anime

That condition excludes illegal activities. In this particular case, downloading unlicensed anime. In the gun analogy, shooting people's kneecaps at every corner. Why do you bring up such irrelevant arguments?

It's debatable because although it may technically be a violation of copyright "the TRIPS agreement does not demand that distribution of copyrighted material is a criminal offence unless it is done on a commercial scale" that plus the fact that fansubs allow people to access anime they normally cannot see, that the arguement it takes up bandwith is stupid, the fact that it doesn't hold any harm save that it may reduce sales if the anime is released in the States.

And I argue because you continue to. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

It's debatable because although it may technically be a violation of copyright "the TRIPS agreement does not demand that distribution of copyrighted material is a criminal offence unless it is done on a commercial scale"

You've already lost that game of semantics in the precedence established by the music recording industry and movie industry.

that the arguement it takes up bandwith is stupid, the fact that it doesn't hold any harm save that it may reduce sales if the anime is released in the States.

On the contrary, it the direct corollary to your argument that one should not buy fansubbed material. The difference between the two lies only in the fact that the one who gets hurt in your preferred scenario is other, law-abiding citizens, while the ones who get hurt in the scenario you eschew are the pirates. Why such sociopathic distinctions?

[give me food]

I don't find keeping the unlicensed such a big deal. It's continuing to purchase fansubs or whatever after the Anime or Manga has been licensed (for DVD/VHS, mind you) in America that gives me problems.

It's okay to download, it's not really okay to share. But it's a cycle, so there's nothing to be done.

I watched raw Japanese Anime before. I didn't understand a word (Steel Angel Kurumi)...it was amusing.

Originally posted by Cirvante:
You've already lost that game of semantics in the precedence established by the music recording industry and movie industry.

Stupid music industry... ~_~()

On the contrary, it the direct corollary to your argument that one should not buy fansubbed material. The difference between the two lies only in the fact that the one who gets hurt in your preferred scenario is other, law-abiding citizens, while the ones who get hurt in the scenario you eschew are the pirates. Why such sociopathic distinctions?

......Because pirates benefit financially and rip both the anime creators and anime fans off as well?

......Because pirates benefit financially and rip both the anime creators and anime fans off as well?

You are the pirate when you download or purchase illegal copies of anime.

There's a big difference between watching anime and selling it for your own financial gain.

Right. One is an illegal activity that either patronizes professional pirates or place undue burden on law abiding citizens. The other is an illegal activity that benefits oneself. Both hurt the producers to an equal degree. The conclusion is such that the former conduct generates ill greater than or equal to those produced by the latter.

The former because it rips anime fans off and deceitfully assumes the role of the animation company in order to make money. the latter is not because the animation company cannot distribute its content to the audience watching the fansubs.

I agree that fansubs on filesharing networks are often of inferior quality, but to say that they rip off the fans is a bit to the extreme. It infringes upon the rights of the company and hurts it, but it does not assume the identity of the company.

[ November 17, 2003, 12:50 AM: Message edited by: Cirvante ]

....Sorry, I got your two things mixed up. Switch the two around. ~.~ That first part is about pirates who sell anime.

I thought that to be the case.

I suppose the effect of being ripped off is felt less on each when it is distributed across a large body of people, pirates and law-abiding citizens alike, but the overall effect is greater in the case of downloads. Or do you take find that because everyone suffers financially, then no one does at all?

I take it that pirates don't deserve money on something they didn't do. [img]tongue.gif[/img] I take it that anime companies don't lose money when people in areas that they don't distribute to watch their things. And I take it that fansubbers are people who are subbing not for financial purposes, but of a desire to spread the love and popularity of anime.

If anime companies are not hurt by the distribution of fansubs, it must also apply to the case of professional pirates, for both distribute the same material. Since the harm--or lack thereof--to the company is constant, it is a moot point right now.

The transportation, recording, and time spent on the production of such fansubs are investments, and the function of the pirates not unlike the function of dub companies, except their activities are not sanctioned by law--the whole point of this thread; regardless of method, what you suggest is an illicit practice that hurts others. Better that they are compensated for their efforts by their fellow black marketeers--to which you belong--than that law-abiding citizens who do not abuse their internet privileges suffer higher prices due to the selfish actions of a few sociopaths.

[ November 17, 2003, 01:52 AM: Message edited by: Cirvante ]

It can also be pointed out that while fansubs stop distribution as soon as an anime is licensed, pirates do not, which then proves harmful to anime companies. Due to the mere fact that they are demanding money for their services means that they are not doing such things out of a good intention but rather for profit (and may it be pointed out that they overprice their wares as well ~_~). As pointed out before, downloading can be done without causing a stress to the system by downloading in late hours and also by controlling the amount of things downloaded at the same time.

I've got to credit you, you do post incredibly fast, and this not only helps me boost up my post count but it also counters the boredom from writing my research papers. [img]tongue.gif[/img] *rubs eyes* I apologise for any poor language use I have in my messages-- haven't been getting enough sleep...

<i>It can also be pointed out that while fansubs stop distribution as soon as an anime is licensed, pirates do not, which then proves harmful to anime companies.</i>
The distribution of anime through either illicit methods is entirely up to the whim of the source. There is no rule governing the flow of either. The fact of the matter is that professional pirates stop distribution as readily with the licensing of animes as do fansubbers. In fact, the advantage for professional pirates to stop their distribution with licensing is greater, since they, as a business, face increased risks and competition with licensing. The market for professional pirating, thus, is less likely to violate such laws with the coming of local licenses.

Due to the mere fact that they are demanding money for their services means that they are not doing such things out of a good intention but rather for profit (and may it be pointed out that they overprice their wares as well ~_~).

The equilibrium price is dictate by the demand curve. That they are apparently running a lucrative, if illegal, business says that they are not overpricing anything. As for intentions, that is hardly relevant when the social and economic ramifications is less.

As pointed out before, downloading can be done without causing a stress to the system by downloading in late hours and also by controlling the amount of things downloaded at the same time.

This assumes two things:
1. that late hour is constant over the globe.
2. that the ISP has the same resources available throughout the day.
The two are mutually exclusive. If the ISP is global enough that it must have the same resources available for each period of time in the day, then late hours for the ISP must not exist. If there is such a thing as "late hours" for the network, then such times must be maintainence periods where diminished resources are available. Your egocentric plan once again leads to undue burden on others who do not engage in such morally and legally reprehensible acts.

[Kargath]

Originally posted by SilverWind:
The only alternative asides from not watching fansubs and not watching them until they come here (O_O()) is to buy actual pirated stuff. ~_~() Which.... is worse than fansubbing. Now that is definitely bad, in my opinion. They're ripping both the company off and buyers off as well.

Trying to cut out the middleman, Silvie?

------------------------
Your Orcish Master, Kargath64

HMC is currently baking up: the Grinnie Mission Script, Act 1: Malice Unseen

[give me food]

Buying pirated stuff is gay. Gay.

I'd prefer to buy it, or just watch it on tv. It's not right, and i'd rather give money to the creators.