Mentality > Physical Strength (indisputible proof that Goku can be beaten)

**LASER BEAR ASSAULT UNIT** · 01-04-2009, 03:34 AM

Ridiculously overpowered heroes fighting enemies but still getting their asses handed to them. What's up with that? It's like the writers traded true coolness in for a LOOK MUM NO HANDS type of bragging with nothing to back it up. It's not enough to make them evenly matched, or even make the battle an appropriate one where the overpowered hero can flatten everyone with one punch, no sir. If the hero is overpowered, then he or she should be able to easily own all in their path unless they make the villan also overpowered, BUT THEY DON'T. Take, for example, one of the coolest villans: the Joker. He's insane, he's ruthless, he likes blowing things up and being unexpected. He is chaos embodied. Batman can't just kick his ass, because they are evenly matched in physical skill, and Batman only gets a beatdown because the Joker can best him in moral battles. The Joker isn't held back by the thought of needing to save the innocent. This is a good villan/hero match. Then you look at someone like Goku. Sure, his power level is over nine thousand, but he has to stand around screaming for an hour before he bothers even trying to punch someone. Then, even though Goku is meant to be the biggest and best of all heroes, some sissy villan comes along and gives him a few slaps around the face and suddenly Goku needs his son to step in a finish the fight (after another hour of screaming). I was thinking Goku was supposed to me the king of all heroes forever. Wasn't that decided at some point? But here we have a clear example of "awesome villan easily bests stupidly overpowered hero due to sheer awesomery". The Joker would just have to kidnap Goku and torture him until Goku lost his mind, a complete leap into insanity. There would be no time for him to scream for an hour to power up enough to break free, because the drugs would leave him incapable of doing so. Then it would be a simple matter of a bullet to the head and Joker would have won. Yet again, proving that ridiculously overpowered heroes are useless, because they only SEEM overpowered. Oh sure, they can blow up planets, but once you find yourself an appropriately awesome villan, it's all over.

Case dismissed.

***Cosmonautical*** · 01-04-2009, 03:38 AM

Problem with Goku: He only ever fights dudes who just fight him.

Goku can be manipulated easily and no one ever does it.

[sage] · 01-04-2009, 04:02 AM

You can't seriously believe the Joker is capable of kidnapping Goku, even as a little kid.

***Cosmonautical*** · 01-04-2009, 06:08 AM

No one has to kidnap Goku. They just have to be at least as fast as he is, and capable of killing pretty much anything ever and he'll be terrified when they take advantage of everything he holds dear.

He is not immune to black mail, he is not immune to poison. He is not immune to advanced genetically engineered diseases. Hell, I could make up a million ways to kill him if he's manipulated the right way.

Light Yagami would destroy him.

***Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds*** · 01-04-2009, 06:16 AM

I don't think kidnapping was entirely the point. XD When fighting is the major solution to someone's problems, subterfuge is bound to be effective.

Definitely agreed on Light. Even discounting the Death Note and help from the Shinigami, out-manuvering Goku in other ways is all that's needed.

1-up Salesman · 01-04-2009, 10:37 AM

I've already figured out when I was planning to write some DBZ vs DC chaos, that Batman would stab a batarang in Vegeta's head and it'd be over.

Rainbow Dash · 01-04-2009, 12:05 PM

if we're going on sheer force of will Kamina could beat Goku hands down

Bomby · 01-04-2009, 12:09 PM

Proof that Goku can be beaten:

**Valigarmander** · 01-04-2009, 01:06 PM

But Goku's power is maximum.

Metal Man · 01-04-2009, 02:03 PM

Goku vs. Agent Smith!

*Shot*

Sim Kid · 01-04-2009, 10:51 PM

Mentality is always > physical strength in animes for one reason....

I call it "Yami Yugi Syndrome". It is when one person always seems to have a backup plan and is always two steps ahead of their opponent. Even if their opponent happens to be two steps ahead of them. This often results in fights quickly becoming a test of strength to a test of who-has-the-most-aces-in-the-hole and who one-ups the most.

Usually for people with Yami Yugi Syndrome, they happen to have the luck in their hands. For people like Joey who RELY on luck, it always seems to betray them before they manage to finally get a good move to play, whereas for Yami yugi, that one card that can clearly save the duel pops up next, and if not, he plays a pot of greed, uses a card that only shows up once, or pulls a move that you just cannot do in the card game at all period.

Common people with Yami Yugi Syndrome:

-Yami Yugi (dur)
-Light Yagami
-Szayel Aporro Granz
-Mayuri Kurotsuchi
-Kurama, although he only shows a few mild symptoms.

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! · 01-05-2009, 02:11 AM

Goku can be killed, but just cause you can poison him doesn't mean you're [i]stronger[/b] than him.

I love Kira but he can't win. The Death Note only works on humans, which is clearly explained and proven (Shinigami cannot be killed via the Note either for example).

Sheer force of will? The only characters I can think of who have a greater will than Goku are the Yugis, who manipulate fate itself through their will.

1-Up. A batarang? ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by [sage]

You can't seriously believe the Joker is capable of kidnapping Goku, even as a little kid.

Just so people can grasp the level of strength SSj4 Goku, Broly as an infant had a power level of 10,000.

In contrast, the average human has a PL of about 5.

Goku can literally power up and kill Broly (without using even Kaiouken he defeated Salza by powering up).

Oh, and on that "sheer force of will" matter, Goku broke the laws of death and came to the human world to save Gohan.

Mushi · 01-05-2009, 02:37 AM

This isn't a debate about anyone being stronger than Goku.

This is a topic about how Goku lacks the basic common sense to not eat the bowl of rice laced with joker-venom without so much as a second thought.

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! · 01-05-2009, 02:49 AM

Yeah, but batarangs were mentioned, something about going into Vegita's head. I had to act

But yeah, I guess he would scarf that poison with a stupid grin on his face and say something about how much more he could eat while he starts to notice his stomach act up.

***Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds*** · 01-05-2009, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MC Mushi Mo

This isn't a debate about anyone being stronger than Goku.

This is a topic about how Goku lacks the basic common sense to not eat the bowl of rice laced with joker-venom without so much as a second thought.

QFT.

Robotazy · 01-05-2009, 08:46 AM

What better way to beat Goku then to play against him in a children's card game?

Vgfian · 01-05-2009, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metal Man

Goku vs. Agent Smith!

*Shot*

That would actually be quite aweso--
*stabbed*

[sage] · 01-05-2009, 05:00 PM

Simon and crew in the Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann would destroy Goku, considering galaxies are about the size of shuriken to them.

**Galefore** · 01-05-2009, 05:18 PM

IRHP has made it very clear that Goku can walk on the sun. That obviously means he is mentally powerful. His mind is strong. His power? MAXIMUM. He goes super saiyan.

HOW CAN WE COMPETE GAIZ

srsly, tho, masa wins

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! · 01-05-2009, 05:34 PM

^^ Well, size is almost always irrelevant.

01-04-2009, 03:34 AM	#1
LASER BEAR ASSAULT UNIT Videos Mod Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: In my pants Gender: Posts: 4,613 Thanks: 2,502 Thanked 767 Times in 422 Posts	Mentality > Physical Strength (indisputible proof that Goku can be beaten) Ridiculously overpowered heroes fighting enemies but still getting their asses handed to them. What's up with that? It's like the writers traded true coolness in for a LOOK MUM NO HANDS type of bragging with nothing to back it up. It's not enough to make them evenly matched, or even make the battle an appropriate one where the overpowered hero can flatten everyone with one punch, no sir. If the hero is overpowered, then he or she should be able to easily own all in their path unless they make the villan also overpowered, BUT THEY DON'T. Take, for example, one of the coolest villans: the Joker. He's insane, he's ruthless, he likes blowing things up and being unexpected. He is chaos embodied. Batman can't just kick his ass, because they are evenly matched in physical skill, and Batman only gets a beatdown because the Joker can best him in moral battles. The Joker isn't held back by the thought of needing to save the innocent. This is a good villan/hero match. Then you look at someone like Goku. Sure, his power level is over nine thousand, but he has to stand around screaming for an hour before he bothers even trying to punch someone. Then, even though Goku is meant to be the biggest and best of all heroes, some sissy villan comes along and gives him a few slaps around the face and suddenly Goku needs his son to step in a finish the fight (after another hour of screaming). I was thinking Goku was supposed to me the king of all heroes forever. Wasn't that decided at some point? But here we have a clear example of "awesome villan easily bests stupidly overpowered hero due to sheer awesomery". The Joker would just have to kidnap Goku and torture him until Goku lost his mind, a complete leap into insanity. There would be no time for him to scream for an hour to power up enough to break free, because the drugs would leave him incapable of doing so. Then it would be a simple matter of a bullet to the head and Joker would have won. Yet again, proving that ridiculously overpowered heroes are useless, because they only SEEM overpowered. Oh sure, they can blow up planets, but once you find yourself an appropriately awesome villan, it's all over. Case dismissed.

01-05-2009, 02:37 AM	#13
Mushi Derp Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Looking at you. I can read your mind. Gender: Posts: 6,982 Thanks: 179 Thanked 351 Times in 271 Posts	This isn't a debate about anyone being stronger than Goku. This is a topic about how Goku lacks the basic common sense to not eat the bowl of rice laced with joker-venom without so much as a second thought. __________________

01-04-2009, 03:38 AM	#2
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,100 Thanks: 2,151 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	Problem with Goku: He only ever fights dudes who just fight him. Goku can be manipulated easily and no one ever does it.

01-04-2009, 04:02 AM	#3
[sage] Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Florida Gender: Posts: 18,304 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 10 Posts	You can't seriously believe the Joker is capable of kidnapping Goku, even as a little kid.

01-04-2009, 06:08 AM	#4
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,100 Thanks: 2,151 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	No one has to kidnap Goku. They just have to be at least as fast as he is, and capable of killing pretty much anything ever and he'll be terrified when they take advantage of everything he holds dear. He is not immune to black mail, he is not immune to poison. He is not immune to advanced genetically engineered diseases. Hell, I could make up a million ways to kill him if he's manipulated the right way. Light Yagami would destroy him.

01-04-2009, 06:16 AM	#5
*Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds* Admin "mine.. not yours. NO. MINE." Epic Ladynerd Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Forteresse de Valois Gender: Posts: 28,503 Thanks: 1,658 Thanked 1,820 Times in 1,042 Posts	I don't think kidnapping was entirely the point. XD When fighting is the major solution to someone's problems, subterfuge is bound to be effective. Definitely agreed on Light. Even discounting the Death Note and help from the Shinigami, out-manuvering Goku in other ways is all that's needed.

01-04-2009, 10:37 AM	#6
1-up Salesman Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Letting you guys know that I'm planning on continuing Attack of the Spammers soon. Gender: Posts: 4,095 Thanks: 2,162 Thanked 250 Times in 194 Posts Blog Entries: 9	I've already figured out when I was planning to write some DBZ vs DC chaos, that Batman would stab a batarang in Vegeta's head and it'd be over.

01-04-2009, 12:05 PM	#7
Rainbow Dash been dreamin', i've been waitin' Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: a bomb-ass cloud house bachelorette pad Gender: Posts: 24,398 Thanks: 173 Thanked 1,179 Times in 716 Posts	if we're going on sheer force of will Kamina could beat Goku hands down

01-04-2009, 12:09 PM	#8
Bomby You just freaking blew Joe Biden's mind! Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: WHAT?house Gender: Posts: 19,491 Thanks: 513 Thanked 1,449 Times in 849 Posts Blog Entries: 5	Proof that Goku can be beaten:

01-04-2009, 01:06 PM	#9
Valigarmander The Bee's Knees Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The land of rain and trees (Oregon) Gender: Posts: 29,755 Thanks: 1,649 Thanked 5,700 Times in 2,580 Posts Blog Entries: 20	But Goku's power is maximum.

01-04-2009, 02:03 PM	#10
Metal Man Fairy-Slaying Maniac Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: 1592 Miles Away From Here Gender: Posts: 18,062 Thanks: 148 Thanked 683 Times in 482 Posts	Goku vs. Agent Smith! Shot

01-04-2009, 10:51 PM	#11
Sim Kid Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: The state of Denial Gender: Posts: 8,884 Thanks: 80 Thanked 198 Times in 122 Posts	Mentality is always > physical strength in animes for one reason.... I call it "Yami Yugi Syndrome". It is when one person always seems to have a backup plan and is always two steps ahead of their opponent. Even if their opponent happens to be two steps ahead of them. This often results in fights quickly becoming a test of strength to a test of who-has-the-most-aces-in-the-hole and who one-ups the most. Usually for people with Yami Yugi Syndrome, they happen to have the luck in their hands. For people like Joey who RELY on luck, it always seems to betray them before they manage to finally get a good move to play, whereas for Yami yugi, that one card that can clearly save the duel pops up next, and if not, he plays a pot of greed, uses a card that only shows up once, or pulls a move that you just cannot do in the card game at all period. Common people with Yami Yugi Syndrome: -Yami Yugi (dur) -Light Yagami -Szayel Aporro Granz -Mayuri Kurotsuchi -Kurama, although he only shows a few mild symptoms.

01-05-2009, 02:49 AM	#14
I REALLY HATE POKEMON! Goku lives on the Sun Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: California, U.S.A Gender: Posts: 12,717 Thanks: 1,334 Thanked 275 Times in 234 Posts Blog Entries: 1	Yeah, but batarangs were mentioned, something about going into Vegita's head. I had to act But yeah, I guess he would scarf that poison with a stupid grin on his face and say something about how much more he could eat while he starts to notice his stomach act up.

01-05-2009, 08:46 AM	#16
Robotazy PRESS ANY KEY TO PANIC! Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: A Tiny Shed Gender: Posts: 16,483 Thanks: 529 Thanked 1,254 Times in 897 Posts Blog Entries: 46	What better way to beat Goku then to play against him in a children's card game?

01-05-2009, 05:00 PM	#18
[sage] Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Florida Gender: Posts: 18,304 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 10 Posts	Simon and crew in the Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann would destroy Goku, considering galaxies are about the size of shuriken to them.

01-05-2009, 05:18 PM	#19
Galefore EXPLOSION GOD OF MUSIC Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Some studio somewhere Gender: Posts: 8,275 Thanks: 1,361 Thanked 826 Times in 535 Posts Blog Entries: 5	IRHP has made it very clear that Goku can walk on the sun. That obviously means he is mentally powerful. His mind is strong. His power? MAXIMUM. He goes super saiyan. HOW CAN WE COMPETE GAIZ srsly, tho, masa wins

01-05-2009, 05:34 PM	#20
I REALLY HATE POKEMON! Goku lives on the Sun Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: California, U.S.A Gender: Posts: 12,717 Thanks: 1,334 Thanked 275 Times in 234 Posts Blog Entries: 1	^^ Well, size is almost always irrelevant.