Who won the "Street Fighter II" tournament?

[DRW]

Title=question? Who was the winner, according to official canon? Or: Who was probably the winner if there is no official canonical answer?

[Robotazy]

Ryu.

Or Guile.

One of them.

[ZeldaGirl]

According to the Ultimate Street Fighter Plot Guide (GameFAQs: Street Fighter (ARC) Street Fighter Plot Guide by Tiamat), there are strong indications that Chun Li won the opportunity to fight Bison, though Guile is the only other fighter really in contention about that. During the match, Akuma intervened and outright killed Bison, thus leading to no official winner of the tournament (unless you want to say Akuma, but he kind of cheated ).

Ryu did win the very first tournament, however.

[Maximum Spider]

Wasn't Ken the official winner? I think he won......

[ZeldaGirl]

^No, actually, canonically, Ken has not won the world tournament. He may have won the American tourney, but never the world.

[Swordmaster Link]

Ken has won the U.S. Championship three straight times (I, II, and III), not the World.

As for the 2nd tournament...ZG basically has it right in that nobody really "won", Akuma kind of just swooped in and decided to kill Bison with a Shun Goku Satsu.

[ZeldaGirl]

^Did Guile ever win the U.S. Tourney? I cannot recall, but I thought that somehow they (being Ken and Guile) were rivals for that reason...

[DRW]

Originally Posted by Swordmaster Link

As for the 2nd tournament...ZG basically has it right in that nobody really "won", Akuma kind of just swooped in and decided to kill Bison with a Shun Goku Satsu.

Well, in this case I of course mean: Who fought Akuma in the end?

[Swordmaster Link]

Nobody fought him, I believe...Akuma wasn't officially entered in the tournament, he kinda just crashed the party and murdered the host. After that, it was kind of "kay everyone go home now".

Which is why I have a beef with SF IV, because it's supposed to occur inbetween II and III...first of all, couldn't Capcom have come up with another title (much like Alpha was realsed after II but comes before it)? Also, if Bison is slated to be in it how in the heck are they going to explain away the fact that Akuma owned him and had his soul destroyed?

[DRW]

Originally Posted by Swordmaster Link

Nobody fought him, I believe...Akuma wasn't officially entered in the tournament, he kinda just crashed the party and murdered the host. After that, it was kind of "kay everyone go home now".

But that's not what happens in the game. If Akuma kills M. Bison, you fight him.

[Swordmaster Link]

Right, but we're talking about canon. Of course you have to fight him in the game, it's not like the game would just stop. As far as the actual storyline goes though, Capcom has been really vague about what happens in SF2, but the big point that is surely known is that Akuma kills Bison at some point (whether it was before or during the match we're not sure) and his remains are discovered later. There is no winner of the 2nd tournament, as far as we know.

[DRW]

Originally Posted by Swordmaster Link

Right, but we're talking about canon. Of course you have to fight him in the game, it's not like the game would just stop. As far as the actual storyline goes though, Capcom has been really vague about what happens in SF2, but the big point that is surely known is that Akuma kills Bison at some point (whether it was before or during the match we're not sure) and his remains are discovered later. There is no winner of the 2nd tournament, as far as we know.

But you cannot declare anything as canon which is a complete contradiction to the game. If the big final in the game contains of Akuma killing M. Bison and then challenging Bison's opponent, it's not logic to assume that in the actual storyline something completely different happened.

O.k., subquestion: Let's go back to the year 1991: There's only "Street Fighter" and "Street Fighter II - The World Warior". SF2 hasn't been "overwritten" by its updates, so the canon only exists of SF1 and the original SF2: Who was meant to be the winner of the tournament of "Street Fighter II" back then.

[Swordmaster Link]

You don't seem to understand what I'm trying to tell you. If you're playing the game, obviously you would fight Akuma because it wouldn't make sense for you to get to Bison (having not lost a round and getting at least 3 perfect victories, as is required to trigger this event), have Akuma swoop in and then see the words "Game Over". Obviously it makes more sense for whoever you're fighting with to fight Akuma. That doesn't mean that that is what actually happens, i.e. canon.

For example, if you beat the game with Ryu, the ending shows him at an award ceremony with Bison and Sagat. THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN, canonically.

Going by your logic, that would mean that Ryu gives into the "murderous intent" in SFA3. However, Capcom has said that he is a hypothetical character. But oh em gee that would contradict the game, because clearly he exists and he ends up beating Akuma at full power!!1111!! No. Doesn't happen. The only time Ryu is "evil" is when Sagat beats him in the first World Warrior tournament, and Ryu gives him that big-ass scar on his chest.

What I'm trying to tell you, for the third time, is that even though in the game what occurs is Akuma challenging whoever, that is hypothetical. In this case I'll give you the fact that Capcom has been ambiguous concerning SF II in particular, but the fact remains that given what we know, there was no "winner".

As far as we know, Akuma came in during that fight (which most likely was against Chun-Li) and killed bison with the Shun Goku Satsu. That's it. And seeing as how Akuma was not signed up to begin with, anything after that doesn't matter.

I still don't think I'm being clear enough, so let me set up an analogy: If you're in a chess tournament with your best friend and the winner will be declared the champion, what do you think would happen if an unregistered participant like myself (I say that cause I don't play chess) punched your friend in the face, knocking him out mid-turn?

I've given you as close an answer as you're going to get. If you don't believe me, write a letter to Capcom for all I care.

[ZeldaGirl]

DWR, to go further on SML's point - you know how each character has their own story if they win. The game developers had to do that because you couldn't just beat the game with one character and have them NOT have an ending. But, not all the endings can exist at the same time, because canonically, not all the characters can win the same tournament. That's why you get individual stories with each character; this doesn't mean any of them have to be true or real.

SML said it perfectly - Akuma killed Bison. Due to gameplay, you of course fight Akuma regardless of which character you are, but the true story (the official story laid out by Capcom itself) is that Akuma killed Bison, and there was no other winner. There are hints that Chun Li fought Bison before he was killed, but in terms of canon, but there is no one who won the whole tourney.

Seriously, read that link I posted earlier - it is pretty full of all the SF info you will ever need.

[Swordmaster Link]

Wait, what? I could've sworn that while Akuma was annihilating Bison, Zangief was dancing with the president of Russia at the same time, just feet away!

[ZeldaGirl]

...Well, that might have still happened.

And somewhere across the world, SML was punching some poor chess nerd in the face.

[Robotazy]

If you ever figure out how Bison lived through Akuma's Attack, maybe we could also tackle the idea of how Geese Howard survived a 30 foot fall after being knocked off the top of a tall building.

[Swordmaster Link]

Well, Bison was supposed to have been killed and his soul destroyed in hell, but since Capcom decided to go and be silly and begin developing a game that occurs between SF II and III, they're going to have to explain that away. In other words, now we have to say that "we don't know how he survived" as opposed to "yeah Bison was owned a long time ago".

I get the feeling most people aren't aware of the SF III storyline, and that Bison isn't a part of the game for a reason.

[Robotazy]

He could be one of those non-canon unlockable characters.

Like Siegfried in Soul Calibur 1.

[DRW]

Originally Posted by Swordmaster Link

You don't seem to understand what I'm trying to tell you. If you're playing the game, obviously you would fight Akuma because it wouldn't make sense for you to get to Bison (having not lost a round and getting at least 3 perfect victories, as is required to trigger this event), have Akuma swoop in and then see the words "Game Over". Obviously it makes more sense for whoever you're fighting with to fight Akuma. That doesn't mean that that is what actually happens, i.e. canon.

For example, if you beat the game with Ryu, the ending shows him at an award ceremony with Bison and Sagat. THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN, canonically.

Going by your logic, that would mean that Ryu gives into the "murderous intent" in SFA3. However, Capcom has said that he is a hypothetical character. But oh em gee that would contradict the game, because clearly he exists and he ends up beating Akuma at full power!!1111!! No. Doesn't happen. The only time Ryu is "evil" is when Sagat beats him in the first World Warrior tournament, and Ryu gives him that big-ass scar on his chest.

What I'm trying to tell you, for the third time, is that even though in the game what occurs is Akuma challenging whoever, that is hypothetical. In this case I'll give you the fact that Capcom has been ambiguous concerning SF II in particular, but the fact remains that given what we know, there was no "winner".

I'm not saying that every possible ending in the game must have happened, but that the ending that happened must be in the game.
I do understand your analogy: There are many things in the various games that don't happen, like 15 of 16 ending sequences and the "Evil Ryu" thing. But: Although there are many scenes that don't happen, there is usually always one in-game-thing that does happen. It's some kind of a multiple choice, an if-else thing:

1. If you play the game with Ryu, then Ryu's ending happens.
2. If you play the game with E. Honda, then E. Honda's ending happens.
...
16. If you play the game with M. Bison, then M. Bison's ending happens.
--> Canonical version of these alternatives is (let's say): Version 4, the ending that you get if you play with Guile.

1. If you enter a special code (or something like that), Ryu becomes evil.
2. If you don't enter the code, Evil Ryu never appears.
--> Canonical version of these alternatives is: Version 2: Evil Ryu never appears.

But accoring to your theory concerning the final battle of SF2, it would go like this:

1. If you are an average player, you will fight M. Bison.
2. If you are a very good player, Akuma will kill M. Bison and you will fight Akuma.
--> Canonical version of these alternatives is: Version X, which is not in the game:
X. Akuma kills M. Bison and the finalist neither fights Bison nor Akuma.

The difference between our original discussed situation and your analogies is that in these analogies, although there are many things that don't happen canonically, the canonical plot is integrated as well and can be seen after the game if you meet the requirements. So, in your analogies it is more like:
Many non-canonical situations and one canonical situation.
But concerning the SF2 final fight, you want to tell me that it is the following:
Only non-canonical situations and no canonical situation.
And that's what I don't believe. I don't believe that none of the possible game outcomes happened canonically. There has to be at least one. The version that Bison is killed and nobody fights Akuma is something that never ever happens in the game, so it can't be canon.
It's one thing to put in many non-canonical things, but it's another thing to leave out the canonical one. Both situations shouldn't be confused with each other.

Originally Posted by Swordmaster Link

As far as we know, Akuma came in during that fight (which most likely was against Chun-Li) and killed bison with the Shun Goku Satsu. That's it. And seeing as how Akuma was not signed up to begin with, anything after that doesn't matter.

Not legally according to the tournament rules, but dramatically accoring to story. I'm not interested who legally won the tournament, but who was the fighter that was victorious in the end and experienced his ending. (No matter if the final battle was an official tournament fight or just a "private one". But I don't believe that the last actual fight, official or not, happened in the semi-final with Sagat.)

Originally Posted by Swordmaster Link

I still don't think I'm being clear enough, so let me set up an analogy: If you're in a chess tournament with your best friend and the winner will be declared the champion, what do you think would happen if an unregistered participant like myself (I say that cause I don't play chess) punched your friend in the face, knocking him out mid-turn?

That just covers the "legal tournament match" fact, but according to the story it would be still interesting to know who was the player that played against the guy that knocked out the champion (even though that last match didn't belong to the official tournament anymore).

Originally Posted by ZeldaGirl

DWR, to go further on SML's point - you know how each character has their own story if they win. The game developers had to do that because you couldn't just beat the game with one character and have them NOT have an ending. But, not all the endings can exist at the same time, because canonically, not all the characters can win the same tournament. That's why you get individual stories with each character; this doesn't mean any of them have to be true or real.

That's correct, but as I said: The idea of putting in additional non-canonical endings is something different as leaving out the canonical ending. You compare apples with pears. "We have 16 endings and one of them is the canonical one" is something completely different as "We have 16 endings and none of them is the canonical one". So, if I say, your version (nobody fights Akuma or Bison) can not be true because it is not in the game, you cannot counter with the fact that there are many non-canonical endings in the game. The first issue is about the canonical ending not being in the game and the second issue is about non-canonical endings being in the game. These are two completely different things and you can't compare them. Having too many theoretical endings is not the problem, but I don't believe you that the real, occured ending is missing in the game.

Originally Posted by ZeldaGirl

Seriously, read that link I posted earlier - it is pretty full of all the SF info you will ever need.

I know that text. I read it some years ago. But firstly: As far as I remember he doesn't say that no-one fought either Akuma or M. Bison. His theory is that Akuma jumped in and killed the already defeated M. Bison (although that's not reflected by the game either). And secondly: This is not an official document. Just some thoughts by a fan. So, the statements in the document that are speculation don't help at all. I could as well write such a FAQ and think up some theories and then I could say: Look into that document. It will answer all your questions.