Paul Bremer Hands Sovereignty Over to Interim Iraqi Government - VGF

Link47 · 06-28-2004, 09:19 AM

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040628/D83G1FCO0.html

Ditto · 06-28-2004, 10:01 AM

Ha! Early transfer! Take that, you worthless terrorist dogs!

Hm... Yet still people complain. Whine, whine, whine. Sometimes I suspect some of those people are just plain conditioned to feel bad under any circumstances.

Then again, technically, we haven't really ended the occupation. We just gave them MORE independence right now. And a good thing, too.

Am I the only one who thinks that only one year spent helping restore the country, especially one still undergoing a violent insurgency and targeting by terrorists, is enough? I mean, Lord, we spend four and five years on Germany and Japan, and those were idyllic circumstances compared to this. So it's good we're not really leaving yet. They still need us.

Bloody whiners. They're like two-year olds yelling they want to hold the baby and they're kicking you because you say no.

And don't get me started on the power-hungry, uber-critical, jealous monsters over here who've been pushing for this early pull-out. If Iraq falls apart, I say we send most of those politicians and media people who smarmily insisted on going too fast over there to deal with the situation themselves.

...With signs on their backs saying "Radical Muslim fundamentalists are stoopid" in the middle of giant bullseyes... And little dotted red lines on their shirt collars with the little picture of a pair of scissors that says "Cut here."

[ June 28, 2004, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: Ditto, Sadly, Not a Boss In SSB:M ]

Pieist · 06-28-2004, 04:15 PM

Just watched something about that on CNN...It sure hell suprised me.

KirbyKing · 06-28-2004, 06:47 PM

Wow, early? Now all hell will break loose earlier too.

El Barto · 06-28-2004, 10:19 PM

I wish I had your optimism, Ditto.

Well, not really.

Ditto McCloaker · 06-29-2004, 01:03 AM

Sometimes, courage and optimism are the only things you have. But it can go a long way.

If you believe in right and wrong, you have to be optimistic that right can and will win out when it matters.

UserGoogol · 06-29-2004, 01:13 AM

The only reduction in violence this means is that terrorist attacks planned for the 30th will have to be cancelled. Which is good, of course.

Pulling out too soon is obviously a bad idea. Iraq is unstable. In the vaccuum of power, several groups including Al-Qaeda, have taken a major role in Iraq. But not pulling out is also a bad idea, because Iraq will remain unstable no matter what we do, and it will really really really hurt the United States in international popularity and in the terrorist threat. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. The war shouldn't have happened, and I have absolutely no idea how to fix it.

I think, however, that the handing over of sovereignty is, ultimately, a good thing. By phasing into an interim government, we're getting the ball rolling for a proper democratically elected government in Iraq. Which is good. (Although I suspect the will of the people is leaning towards theocracy, which is bad.)

But the next few months are going to be very interesting, to say the least.

Nick · 06-29-2004, 04:55 AM

Troops are still there, ergo we still run the show. If we leave anytime in the next...oh 8 years, I'll be shocked.

If we leave anytime soon, like after training the Iraqi army, I give the country less than a year before someone leads a military coup.

The difference between Germany and Japan is that in 50 years, Iraq will still be a ****hole desert with some oil whereas Germany and Japan turned into two of the top five economic powers.

Considering how many attacks have happened in the last week or so, this isn't really shocking. Having a planned ceremony with VIPs is kind of stupid and screams out "TARGET ME! WE'RE IMPORTANT!"

[ June 29, 2004, 05:02 AM: Message edited by: Lurch1982 ]

Ninja Hammer Man · 06-29-2004, 11:41 PM

Iraq is a very unstable place so the troops will stay until the the vioence calms down with people.

Ditto · 06-30-2004, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Troops are still there, ergo we still run the show. If we leave anytime in the next...oh 8 years, I'll be shocked.

If we leave anytime soon, like after training the Iraqi army, I give the country less than a year before someone leads a military coup.

You're quite alert, today.

Quote:

The difference between Germany and Japan is that in 50 years, Iraq will still be a ****hole desert with some oil whereas Germany and Japan turned into two of the top five economic powers.

In fifty years, Germany will still be some backwards state that hates Jews, and the Japanese will still be a bunch of backward, sandal-wearing, buck-toothed, giant-bespectacled foreign devils.

I'm going for a ride in my heligyro, to visit Siam.

Quote:

Considering how many attacks have happened in the last week or so, this isn't really shocking. Having a planned ceremony with VIPs is kind of stupid and screams out "TARGET ME! WE'RE IMPORTANT!"

Well you could have told us, so we'd have known ahead of time, but no, you had to keep it all to yourself. Curse your prescience. Curse it, I say!

El Barto · 06-30-2004, 01:43 PM

First of all, during WW2, Germany was the one of the most technologically advanced country in the world. It wasn't the Allies that put them on the map.

[ June 30, 2004, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: El Barto ]

Koga · 07-03-2004, 06:16 AM

I don't know how much money was put into Germany after WW2 (Marshall plan), but I'm pretty sure that in these times, the US cannot spend that much on Iraq. The people in Germany also welcomed the Americans much more (not all Germans were mindless Hitler followers) they helped rebuild their own country. So far, very few Iraqis show any sign of wanting to rebuild their country with the Americans.

Ditto McCloaker · 07-03-2004, 03:17 PM

Quote:

I don't know how much money was put into Germany after WW2 (Marshall plan), but I'm pretty sure that in these times, the US cannot spend that much on Iraq.

Oh, come on. World War II itself cost tons more than we're spending in Iraq, let alone the reconstruction, especially conisdering how long we were over there. And memories of the Depression still lingered. I'd try to find figures, except I know it would take a long time and it's pretty clear they're unneccessary.

Quote:

The people in Germany also welcomed the Americans much more (not all Germans were mindless Hitler followers)

And most Iraqis are just radical cleric fodder?

Quote:

they helped rebuild their own country. So far, very few Iraqis show any sign of wanting to rebuild their country with the Americans

No... I'm sorry, but that's not the truth. The media has NEVER reported on anything except attacks, fighting, and radical clerics denouncing us. I've heard dozens of letters from our soldiers read over there that tell a much different story, and I've talked to a couple guys who've come back about that, too.

Even if that were the case, we obviously couldn't give the Middle East back to the barbarians. Fortunately, it's not the case, and many people over there see us as their friends. I absolutely cannot understand why we're not hearing about these people, except that probably the media really is trying to paint a negative picture based on their horrible beliefs. It's baffling.

Koga · 07-03-2004, 04:17 PM

World War II was a very different war anyway. One that had to be fought as soon as the Germans invaded Poland and in which America only got entangled with the Pearl Harbour attack.

I'm actually saying that they did spend a lot more on Germany than they're doing in Iraq, and it had a positive effect. I am alao saying that in these times of economic difficulty the US cannot spend as much.

No, but most Iraqis do not support the US. The Kurds want their own nation (which would lead to more trouble, because Trukish Kurds will want to join them). The Sunnites and Shi'ites probably want Islamic governments, which I believe the US doesn't support.

As long as the media have daily terrorist bombings to report, it's not a good situation over there. There may be many exceptions, but clearly not enough for stability in that country. I find it amusing that you also use only a few sources, and those are most likely biased (soldiers are not going to say that they screwed up). The media can be biased as well, but I trust the Dutch media.

Oh, and btw, media is plural.

Erdawn Il Deus · 07-06-2004, 10:44 AM

Quote:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The difference between Germany and Japan is that in 50 years, Iraq will still be a ****hole desert with some oil whereas Germany and Japan turned into two of the top five economic powers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In fifty years, Germany will still be some backwards state that hates Jews, and the Japanese will still be a bunch of backward, sandal-wearing, buck-toothed, giant-bespectacled foreign devils.

I'm going for a ride in my heligyro, to visit Siam.

All my life I'm quested the earth for the most idiotic statement ever made... and now that I have found it, my life is complete.

06-28-2004, 09:19 AM	#1
Link47 Senior Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: USA Posts: 8,377 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 22,439.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 22,939.00 Donate	http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040628/D83G1FCO0.html

06-28-2004, 10:01 AM	#2
Ditto Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Not in SSB:M Posts: 354 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 801.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 1,301.00 Donate	Ha! Early transfer! Take that, you worthless terrorist dogs! Hm... Yet still people complain. Whine, whine, whine. Sometimes I suspect some of those people are just plain conditioned to feel bad under any circumstances. Then again, technically, we haven't really ended the occupation. We just gave them MORE independence right now. And a good thing, too. Am I the only one who thinks that only one year spent helping restore the country, especially one still undergoing a violent insurgency and targeting by terrorists, is enough? I mean, Lord, we spend four and five years on Germany and Japan, and those were idyllic circumstances compared to this. So it's good we're not really leaving yet. They still need us. Bloody whiners. They're like two-year olds yelling they want to hold the baby and they're kicking you because you say no. And don't get me started on the power-hungry, uber-critical, jealous monsters over here who've been pushing for this early pull-out. If Iraq falls apart, I say we send most of those politicians and media people who smarmily insisted on going too fast over there to deal with the situation themselves. ...With signs on their backs saying "Radical Muslim fundamentalists are stoopid" in the middle of giant bullseyes... And little dotted red lines on their shirt collars with the little picture of a pair of scissors that says "Cut here." [ June 28, 2004, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: Ditto, Sadly, Not a Boss In SSB:M ]

06-28-2004, 04:15 PM	#3
Pieist Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: In a graveyard Gender: Posts: 1,272 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 2,648.01 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 3,148.01 Donate	Just watched something about that on CNN...It sure hell suprised me.

06-28-2004, 06:47 PM	#4
KirbyKing Veteran Member Join Date: May 2000 Posts: 37,091 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 10,553.50 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 11,053.50 Donate	Wow, early? Now all hell will break loose earlier too.

06-28-2004, 10:19 PM	#5
El Barto Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,708 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Points: 1,484.12 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 1,984.12 Donate	I wish I had your optimism, Ditto. Well, not really.

06-29-2004, 01:03 AM	#6
Ditto McCloaker Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: SimCity Posts: 3,246 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 775.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 1,275.00 Donate	Sometimes, courage and optimism are the only things you have. But it can go a long way. If you believe in right and wrong, you have to be optimistic that right can and will win out when it matters.

06-29-2004, 01:13 AM	#7
UserGoogol Senior Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Greater Boston Area Gender: Posts: 4,024 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 5,043.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 5,543.00 Donate	The only reduction in violence this means is that terrorist attacks planned for the 30th will have to be cancelled. Which is good, of course. Pulling out too soon is obviously a bad idea. Iraq is unstable. In the vaccuum of power, several groups including Al-Qaeda, have taken a major role in Iraq. But not pulling out is also a bad idea, because Iraq will remain unstable no matter what we do, and it will really really really hurt the United States in international popularity and in the terrorist threat. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. The war shouldn't have happened, and I have absolutely no idea how to fix it. I think, however, that the handing over of sovereignty is, ultimately, a good thing. By phasing into an interim government, we're getting the ball rolling for a proper democratically elected government in Iraq. Which is good. (Although I suspect the will of the people is leaning towards theocracy, which is bad.) But the next few months are going to be very interesting, to say the least.

06-29-2004, 04:55 AM	#8
Nick Banned Join Date: Dec 1969 Posts: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 10,322.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 10,822.00 Donate	Troops are still there, ergo we still run the show. If we leave anytime in the next...oh 8 years, I'll be shocked. If we leave anytime soon, like after training the Iraqi army, I give the country less than a year before someone leads a military coup. The difference between Germany and Japan is that in 50 years, Iraq will still be a ****hole desert with some oil whereas Germany and Japan turned into two of the top five economic powers. Considering how many attacks have happened in the last week or so, this isn't really shocking. Having a planned ceremony with VIPs is kind of stupid and screams out "TARGET ME! WE'RE IMPORTANT!" [ June 29, 2004, 05:02 AM: Message edited by: Lurch1982 ]

06-29-2004, 11:41 PM	#9
Ninja Hammer Man Junior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: A house Posts: 119 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 3,081.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 3,581.00 Donate	Iraq is a very unstable place so the troops will stay until the the vioence calms down with people.

06-30-2004, 01:43 PM	#11
El Barto Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,708 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Points: 1,484.12 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 1,984.12 Donate	First of all, during WW2, Germany was the one of the most technologically advanced country in the world. It wasn't the Allies that put them on the map. [ June 30, 2004, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: El Barto ]

07-03-2004, 06:16 AM	#12
Koga Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: The Netherlands Gender: Posts: 17,093 Thanks: 104 Thanked 176 Times in 118 Posts Points: 104,359.41 Bank: 17,752.41 Total Points: 122,111.82 Donate	I don't know how much money was put into Germany after WW2 (Marshall plan), but I'm pretty sure that in these times, the US cannot spend that much on Iraq. The people in Germany also welcomed the Americans much more (not all Germans were mindless Hitler followers) they helped rebuild their own country. So far, very few Iraqis show any sign of wanting to rebuild their country with the Americans.

07-03-2004, 04:17 PM	#14
Koga Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: The Netherlands Gender: Posts: 17,093 Thanks: 104 Thanked 176 Times in 118 Posts Points: 104,359.41 Bank: 17,752.41 Total Points: 122,111.82 Donate	World War II was a very different war anyway. One that had to be fought as soon as the Germans invaded Poland and in which America only got entangled with the Pearl Harbour attack. I'm actually saying that they did spend a lot more on Germany than they're doing in Iraq, and it had a positive effect. I am alao saying that in these times of economic difficulty the US cannot spend as much. No, but most Iraqis do not support the US. The Kurds want their own nation (which would lead to more trouble, because Trukish Kurds will want to join them). The Sunnites and Shi'ites probably want Islamic governments, which I believe the US doesn't support. As long as the media have daily terrorist bombings to report, it's not a good situation over there. There may be many exceptions, but clearly not enough for stability in that country. I find it amusing that you also use only a few sources, and those are most likely biased (soldiers are not going to say that they screwed up). The media can be biased as well, but I trust the Dutch media. Oh, and btw, media is plural.