600-Pound Woman Dies After Being Surgically Removed From Couch

[Rattan]

You've got to think beyond yourself and look at this situation through the eyes of someone with mental problems.

So in order to understand someone with serious mental problems we need to imagine we have serious mental problems....right.

Because you're joking about it. To the point where it almost hurts me, and I didn't even know the woman. Anyone who's experienced this kind of situation 1,000,000,000th-hand should know that it's not funny.

Yeah...no. I joke about it but I have met people with serious mental handicaps. 2 of them got it from Vietnam and though they converse with people they also at times will retreat into a little shell and not react to anything even some kid accidently dropping a stack of books onto the guy, and the guy was still there staring off into space.

The woman was a worse case for sure but with things like this sometimes the only person who can help you is yourself. The man checked himself in because he was on the verge of doing what the woman did. But Jake didn't want that and he tried getting help for himself. This woman however did no such thing and opted to park it and wallow in whatever got her to that point along with her own wastes.

[ August 20, 2004, 12:32 AM: Message edited by: Rattan ]

[JoeTheSnifit]

I believe Female isn't the way to describe her. It wasn't a lady, it was a couch. If a former Male had fused with a couch and made the same choices I would have felt the same way. Yes this is sad. Yes she was mentally ill. But the truth is, SHE DIDN'T WANT TO LIVE. Some people can't be helped, even by proffesionals. That Man kept her alive for six years, six years that without his help she wouldn't be alive. And even after you're makeover of the pool scenario it is still a poor one. A complete stranger who jumped in your pool to kill himself, and a seriously disturbed Lady who sat on a couch for six years slowly killing herself are 2 completely different things.

I have two metal screws fused with my tibia right now. Am I a screw? No. This woman's skin cells grew around the fibers of the couch, thereby attaching her to it, but the couch does not have her DNA. The claim that this woman was a couch because she was physically attached to one is the most ludicrous I've ever heard.

I didn't say she was a couch because she fused with it, I did because she shunned herself from the world. Do couches speak, hear, or interact with living beings? No. Does she? No. She may not physicaly be a couch, but mentally she is.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />How do you know we've never seen mental disorders in real life? I've done community service(Not for going to jail) at a Shelter Home for people with mental disorders and I learned that some people are just beyond helping! I'm not saying people with disorders should die but people that fuse themselves with living room seating should.

You have compassion for the ill and depressed, but not the extremely ill and depressed? I don't understand.

Just because someone's condition is beyond help doesn't mean it isn't worthwhile to provide decent care for them. Surely you don't think that these people you've seen in the Shelter Home should've been left to rot instead of brought to the care of professionals? Does the US Constitution not seek to preserve "the dignity and worth of the individual?" Even terminally ill cancer patients receive medical care to keep them comfortable until they die. Their condition may be hopeless, but their lives still matter.</font>[/quote]I don't have compassion for the extrememly ill and depressed? I never said that! I'm saying that if she wanted to die, yes you have to help. Even if he got her off that couch, what would she do? Get back on. If that man kept her alive for six years most I'm 99 percent sure that he got proffessional help for her. But as I said before, COUCHES DON'T TALK, COUCHES DON'T HEAR, AND COUCHES DON'T INTERACT WITH LIVING BEINGS WHATSOEVER. The truth is, she didn't want to live. She could've thought she had Nothing to live for. There is only so much that anyone can do for someone like that. If she really wanted to die and wanted to so badly that she fused with a couch, she'd be happier dead.

But we also don't know the full story, maybe the man did get the woman professional help, and that didn't get through to her, maybe they couldn't afford the help, maybe he didn't have a phone or a car, and maybe the kids weren't even his, maybe the kids were his nephews or such, we really don't know all the factors that are included in this.

1. He didn't seem to have much trouble affording the surgery to remove the woman from the couch, though Lord knows why he waited until she couldn't breathe to seek professional help.
2. Even if he didn't have a phone or a car (though he somehow managed that phone call in the end), he certainly had neighbors to provide these things.
2. Who the kids belonged to is a completely different story.[/quote]

Maybe he had been saving for the surgery. Maybe he had no job. He had to spend his time with the couch. Maybe he did talk to the neighbors. Maybe he had atempted the surgery before.

Sure, he coulda told whoever dropped them off, but seriously what would
"I have a woman who is severely depressed and has become one with my living room couch, wallowing and weeping in her own waste that I am cleaning" sound like to you?

It sounds a heck of a lot better than silence to me. You don't refuse to seek help for someone else to avoid sounding ridiculous. [/QB][/quote]

How do you know he didn't seek help?

[Princess Zelda of Hyrule]

It was a metaphor, kid.

I know (hence the quotes around "buy"), and what the metaphore implies is false, especially in the case of someone who is plainly mentally ill.

I didn't say she was a couch because she fused with it, I did because she shunned herself from the world. Do couches speak, hear, or interact with living beings? No. Does she? No. She may not physicaly be a couch, but mentally she is.

Where are you getting that she didn't interact with anybody?

[Cornell J]

Originally posted by Elphaba: Wicked Witch of the West:


</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Sure, he coulda told whoever dropped them off, but seriously what would
"I have a woman who is severely depressed and has become one with my living room couch, wallowing and weeping in her own waste that I am cleaning" sound like to you?

It sounds a heck of a lot better than silence to me. You don't refuse to seek help for someone else to avoid sounding ridiculous. </font>[/quote]Now let's try this:
Not so much as it being rediculous,
but rather it being well....what's that word I'm lookin for? Believable?

[Juliet]

So in order to understand someone with serious mental problems we need to imagine we have serious mental problems....right.

No, but it's unfair to judge people with mental problems without acknowledging that such people can't think like the average person does. You might as well blame a mentally retarded person for "acting like a stupid idiot."

Yeah...no. I joke about it but I have met people with serious mental handicaps. 2 of them got it from Vietnam and though they converse with people they also at times will retreat into a little shell and not react to anything even some kid accidently dropping a stack of books onto the guy, and the guy was still there staring off into space.

The woman was a worse case for sure but with things like this sometimes the only person who can help you is yourself. The man checked himself in because he was on the verge of doing what the woman did. But Jake didn't want that and he tried getting help for himself. This woman however did no such thing and opted to park it and wallow in whatever got her to that point along with her own wastes.

That may be true in certain cases, but some people are unable to help themselves, and that's a fact. Some even deny having a problem. Whatever the case, when you're living with a person who has severe mental problems and isn't seeking help for herself for whatever reason, you have the obligation to see that she gets appropriate care, because if you won't trouble yourself to fulfill that obligation, no one will, and the person's condition will only continue to deteriorate. By the same token, if one of your family members were bruising a lot and showing other symptoms but refused to go to the hospital, you couldn't just say, "fine, suit yourself," and forget about it.

I didn't say she was a couch because she fused with it, I did because she shunned herself from the world. Do couches speak, hear, or interact with living beings? No. Does she? No. She may not physicaly be a couch, but mentally she is.

First of all, we don't know that this woman didn't interact with living beings. Before I can get any more frustrated with you guys, I'd like to announce myself as the niece of someone who has been in withdrawal for over thirty years. He doesn't act that way because he isn't human. He acts that way because he is human, and humans can only handle so much pain before it breaks them. This woman's case is very similar to his, and I sympathize with it. This "couch-woman" notion of yours is BULLSH*T. It's false, it's stupid, it shows poor judgement and lack of thought, and if you took it away from your arguments, they'd collapse on the spot, because no human being deserves to be treated the way this woman was treated in her final years.

[ August 20, 2004, 11:36 PM: Message edited by: Elphaba: Wicked Witch of the West ]

[DELICIOUS POISON]

Christ, you're ****ing anal. Can't you see they're just messing with you, anyway? They don't consider your opinion valuable enough to realistically argue. The woman is dead, of her own accord. The fact the you want to blame someone else for such is in itself an abomination.

[DJ Ryan]

So, let's say I get something to slowly kill myself, and when my family tries to help, yell atthem and tell them I don't need any or want any.

When I die, is it their fault? No
I would've wanted to do what I did, therefore it's outta their hands.

[Phenom]

Originally posted by GIVE ME YOUR FIRST-BORN SON:
Christ, you're ****ing anal. Can't you see they're just messing with you, anyway? They don't consider your opinion valuable enough to realistically argue. The woman is dead, of her own accord. The fact the you want to blame someone else for such is in itself an abomination.

If that didn't drive it into her argumentative brain, this quote sums up our feelings I reckon. If you hadn't read it already Elphaba, it may give you some insight.

Perhaps "bleeding heart" was the wrong word. I should have said martyr. Because it seems that you will not cease in your ramblings and scenarios until you feel you've won a debate about strange phenomena not intended to be debated about. So yes, I apologise for so wrongfully branding you as such, you're just an overreacting martyr who seems to indulge herself in arging with people who really don't take themselves so seriously.

Now I know its your style to dissect every last word I have typed and attempt to counter with a good rousing rebuttal, but I'm not bothering to go on and on with you like I did alongside others in the other topic, so don't bother. If you haven't noticed, the majority of us (myself included) just argue with you to piss you off; not to engage in an highly incredible debate about the rights of female/couches and bears. I'm sure some of your other conservative pals will admire you for your ability to make an arguement out of trivial things, but I and many others just think you're annoying.

[Juliet]

Wow--if you would really spend all of six pages arguing about something that you couldn't care less about for the sole purpose of pissing me off, I must say I pity you. But, mind you, having witnessed this kind of thing in my own family, I'd hardly call it trivial.

So, let's say I get something to slowly kill myself, and when my family tries to help, yell atthem and tell them I don't need any or want any.

When I die, is it their fault? No
I would've wanted to do what I did, therefore it's outta their hands.

It's only out of their hands for as long as they won't trouble themselves to take it into their hands, and if that were the case, would it not bother you that your family didn't care enough about your life to attempt to save it no matter what? By the same token, if your brother were trying to kill himself, would you be content to just stand there with the rest of your family and watch him die? After he'd gone, could you live with yourself knowing that you were fully equipped to get help for them, but instead chose to give in to your brother's warped perspective of life?

Some of you have said that no emotional problem is great enough to be surrendered to, that what this woman wanted to do to herself was repulsive, and I agree with you on that much. Isn't it true, then, that when someone has been led to believe they should surrender to their problems, they have a false idea? After all, as Dylan said, no one needs to wallow and die just because they've been hurt at some point in their life. But should we entitle this person to her false ideas and respect her for them?--Don't answer "yes," because you've already called the woman a disgusting couch and proven that you don't believe that her wishes deserved respect. Do you honestly believe that a person's right to believe in false, destructive, and repulsive ideas is so much more important than their right to live, that the family members of a depressed woman should let her believe in these ideas instead of trying to save her from them?

[ August 21, 2004, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: Elphaba: Wicked Witch of the West ]

[Super Shy Guy]

you're funny

[Super Shy Guy]

you're funny

[Phenom]

Originally posted by Elphaba: Wicked Witch of the West:
Wow--if you would really spend all of six pages arguing about something that you couldn't care less about for the sole purpose of pissing me off, I must say I pity you. But, mind you, having witnessed this kind of thing in my own family, I'd hardly call it trivial.

Wow--if you would really spend all of six pages seriously arguing about some fatty that got stuck to a couch with people who obviously don't care, all of which are complete strangers, I suggest you re-evaluate your social life. While I and several others are just mocking you, you're spending time actually trying to get a point across. Isn't working and never will. Just quit trying. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Cornell J]

Originally posted by Elphaba: Wicked Witch of the West:
Wow--if you would really spend all of six pages arguing about something that you couldn't care less about for the sole purpose of pissing me off, I must say I pity you. But, mind you, having witnessed this kind of thing in my own family, I'd hardly call it trivial.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />So, let's say I get something to slowly kill myself, and when my family tries to help, yell atthem and tell them I don't need any or want any.

When I die, is it their fault? No
I would've wanted to do what I did, therefore it's outta their hands.

It's only out of their hands for as long as they won't trouble themselves to take it into their hands, and if that were the case, would it not bother you that your family didn't care enough about your life to attempt to save it no matter what? By the same token, if your brother were trying to kill himself, would you be content to just stand there with the rest of your family and watch him die? After he'd gone, could you live with yourself knowing that you were fully equipped to get help for them, but instead chose to give in to your brother's warped perspective of life?
</font>[/quote]Wouldn't be our fault cause he woulda wanted to go, and woulda done anything he could, he wouldnt be mad at his family "just sitting there and not helping him" if he didn't WANT to be helped in the first place.

Let's Say Dre's brother were to try and kill himself (more than likely not), but let's say he tried, he has the opportunity t orun off, something we'd be able to do NOTHING about. After he's gone what the hell can you do?

When someone is gone they're GONE no bringing them back, so why try to kill yourself internally , when you can't do anything.

[Juliet]

I'm with the army that says that anyone at VGF needs to re-evaluate his or her social life.

If suicidism were an absolutely hopeless situation, then there would be no suicide prevention hotline or similar services. I'm not saying that calling on such services guarantees a solution, but it certainly runs a better chance than it does to simply give up on the person.

This is irrelevant to the argument, but I've read that anyone who tries to make others aware that they're suicidal does so as a cry for help.

[ August 21, 2004, 11:37 PM: Message edited by: Elphaba: Wicked Witch of the West ]

[DJ Ryan]

^ Err... better rethink that cause you just contradicted yourself

I think about 98% of us have social lives....

The other 2% being the SPAMmers we get....

[ August 21, 2004, 11:36 PM: Message edited by: The Rubberband Man V.2 ]

[Juliet]

How did I contradict myself?

[DJ Ryan]

Originally posted by Elphaba: Wicked Witch of the West:
I'm with the army that says that anyone at VGF needs to re-evaluate his or her social life.

Yet you are a productive member of VGF

[Flamethrower Mario]

Insulting someone's social life over the internet is one of the lamest cop-outs in the book.

[DELICIOUS POISON]

AND SO I SING THE VIKING SONG

[DJ Ryan]

ACK! I HATE VIKINGS
*hits AI*