Bush takes 11 point lead in new TIME poll!

Bob · 09-03-2004, 04:14 PM

By the way, this is based on numbers PRE-Bush speech.

52%-41%

Thoughts?

Bob · 09-03-2004, 04:15 PM

Rasmussen.com is based on numbers from the last three nights, but so far Bush is up three and has a 54% approval rating among voters.

Bob · 09-03-2004, 04:29 PM

Link: http://www.time.com/time/press_relea...692562,00.html

Nick · 09-03-2004, 05:44 PM

Its hard to tell on this poll because it doesn't disclose the questioning and all of the other technical stuff. Keep in mind that there's almost 10% that's still undecided, which (going by issue polls) will likely go more towards Kerry than Bush. Kerry fares much better on domestic issues, and historically US election have been primarily based on domestic issues.

Also keep in mind that polls taken after political pep-rallies show a certain degree of inaccuracy.

Then there's the entire issue of the +/- 4 points

[ September 03, 2004, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: Lurch1982 ]

Bob · 09-03-2004, 07:37 PM

Polls are reflecting that the Bush has gotten a bump out of the convention. I think it'll last, because Kerry's looking really pale by comparison.

But yes, I think this poll is a bit of a fluke. I expect the numbers to be more like (but not identical to) 55-45.

Damon King · 09-03-2004, 07:42 PM

I'm voting Kerry,

Whoever is put in office, better keep their damn hands outta my pockets.

Bob · 09-03-2004, 07:53 PM

Uh, Bush is planning to push for tax reform. Kerry's the one proposing to raise taxes (and only for those making over $200,000 a year).

Though Kerry will certainly raise every American's taxes. His ridiculous health care plan tries to cover everyone (including those who are young and don't care yet and illegal immigrants) and as such, it's way too expensive. To be fair, Bush also has a health care proposal, but that's because some Americans can't afford it or whatever. Bush's is far cheaper, which is why John Edwards keeps talking about health care as if it's a crisis.

So why are you voting Kerry? (not trying to convince you so much as me just being curios)

Koga · 09-05-2004, 08:24 AM

Why would you lower taxes when you've got such an enormous deficit?

DELICIOUS POISON · 09-05-2004, 08:39 AM

Because you're full of sh*t. Why else? OH, BECAUSE HE CARES ABOUT THE PEOPLE!!! My ass.

Everybody Nose · 09-05-2004, 08:25 PM

**** TIME, those chronological bastards. (wow I didn't know I just used that word)

Link2000 · 09-05-2004, 09:25 PM

Is Bush gets reelected and continues to pull America into further debt, the next few administrations will be very hardpressed to pay it back and continue to provide services to the people.

Andy Warhol · 09-06-2004, 02:32 AM

guys who's going to vote for bush REDNECKS thats who. so kerry has no chance of winnning because 99% of the US is made up on them

Bob · 09-06-2004, 03:58 PM

Laffer curve. Look it up; cutting taxes brings in more money once the tax rate gets past a certain point (and we're still well past it). We've brought in more money under Bush than any year of the 90s except the last, which was before the recession.

And the national debt is exaggerated. Any decent economist will tell you we're in decent shape (and Bush is going to cut the deficit in half).

FACT: During his long career in the Senate, Kerry has proposed only one bill.
FACT: It was to gut the intelligence agency with huge cuts in funding...after the first WTC attack.
FACT: Kerry is such a great leader, he couldn't even get a single cosponsor to go along with it.

That's his one Senate 'accomplishment.' The rest, he was just one liberal vote among many.

**Prince Toad** · 09-06-2004, 04:01 PM

^What the hell does that matter?

I refuse to believe that Bush will make the deficit smaller by having less money. You're full of ****.

Besides, Bush wasn't much better... wait... he was a hell of a lot worse. Let's see, paid his way through college, dodged out of Vietnam, staggered around in a drunken stupor for a couple decades, killed a lot of people in Texas as governor, and became President. However much you want to make it about Kerry, it's about the incumbent and not the challenger. Keep your **** to yourself.

[ September 06, 2004, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: Prince Toad ]

Bob · 09-06-2004, 04:12 PM

Except we've taken in more money...oh wait, I already told you that in the THIRD sentance so shut the f*ck up and read.

When more money is getting spent, and producitivity is up, more gets TAXED and government takes in MORE revenue.

Deficit is because of increased spending; not reduced funding.

Laffer curve: taxation slows productivity. The maximum benefit the government can get out of an economy, therefore, is not determined by a straight line, but an upside down U.

By the way, NewsWeek also has Bush up with a double-digit lead (about the same results). Rasmussen shows Bush has a 53% approval rating among voters, and that's including a fluke sample for Kerry (holiday weekened).

When the next Gallup poll comes out (better than anyone else), I expect Bush to have a 5-6 point lead. Eleven sounds a bit high, though if it does show that, I'll be happy.

Bob · 09-06-2004, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Besides, Bush wasn't much better... wait... he was a hell of a lot worse. Let's see, paid his way through college, dodged out of Vietnam, staggered around in a drunken stupor for a couple decades, killed a lot of people in Texas as governor, and became President. However much you want to make it about Kerry, it's about the incumbent and not the challenger. Keep your **** to yourself.

Yes, he killed a lot of murderers as Governor. He's killing a lot of them now, in fact and I commend his effectiveness.

Notice Bush is the only one with an actual agenda (simplified tax code, privatized social security, a health center in every county in America) whereas Kerry talks about getting 'undocumented' immigrants health care.

And if Kerry wants to keep making this about Vietnam, which the swift boat vets seem to have scared him away from, he's dead.

Kerry was an anti-war protestor, as I'm sure you won't deny. In a group with communists. These people were pissing on American flags!

People defend him by saying he finally quit when the group got too extreme for him. Well, yeah, that makes him a big hero--he finally quit when they were going to murder a United States Senator! This guy was a leader of the movement, for crying out loud!

He has a book out with the United States flag upside down. He spoke out saying that he, himself, had commited war crimes and burned down villages. And joined a few nameless friends in accussing his fellow veterans of being baby killers and rapists.

On that last one, he was reiterating what others had told him. Problem is, he was endorsing the notion himself. He was SPECIFICALLY there to condemn them, by will. Maybe he should have had a few decent sources. Oh, and don't forget Jane Fonda.

So yeah. Great guy to be commander in chief. Now he wants to bring hell to another war. Fortunately he isn't going to get that opportunity.

[ September 06, 2004, 04:19 PM: Message edited by: *The Master* ]

**Prince Toad** · 09-06-2004, 06:22 PM

I'd bet some of those "murderers" were innocent. Too bad they're dead.

You can't speak for Kerry because you weren't in Nam. If you were of age, and had been a normal person, you'd probably do the same if you had been drafted and sent into combat. He'd been to war (unlike Bush) and served honorably, but had realized atrocities were being committed on both sides and came back to become a protestor. What's wrong with that?

He'd committed war crimes because a) He was ordered to and b) It's hard to think straight when a bullet could go through your head at any moment. A lot of soldiers, most of them probably, did the same. It was kill or be killed. Not that that's good-- the whole war was stupid. But for the soldiers who had to fight in it, that's how it was.

Kerry brought up a good point on the Daily Show when he said something along the lines of going to war as a last resort, and that clearly wasn't the case in Iraq. There was no imminent threat to America. Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11. Bush just used it as an excuse to invade Iraq, which he'd wanted to do ever since they "tried to kill his daddy."

Besides. What the hell does it matter what he did 30 years ago? Why is the Vietnam War such a huge issue when nothing can be done about it? Y'know, if they concentrated on actual issues, Bush would look like the tragical mistake of a President he is.

Bob · 09-07-2004, 01:35 PM

Actually, I would have dodged the draft like Cheney and tons of other Americans. Being a protester (in general) is okay, but I'm just saying his past isn't quite as glorious as some make it out to be.

The man is honored in a communist museum to this day for aiding the enemy, regardless of whether you think he did or not.

I don't care what happened 30 years ago; I care about now. You're the one who brought up 30 years ago and dismissed Kerry's senate record is irrelevent.

And, uh, Bush invaded Iraq because of his daddy? What now?

[ September 07, 2004, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: *The Master* ]

**Prince Toad** · 09-07-2004, 03:54 PM

Dodging the draft is fine-- if you don't want to be President. Getting drunk and missing duty are the same deal.

He even said in some speech "They even tried to kill my daddy." There was no valid reason to attack Iraq. They had no WMDs-- whatever the administration may "find" in the future-- and were not a threat to America, plus had nothing to do with 9/11.

What? Which museum is this? What are you talking about?

Bob · 09-07-2004, 04:36 PM

Ho Chi Minh City museum.

I already proved you wrong on the WMDs, and I'm not wasting my time again.

09-03-2004, 04:14 PM	#1
Bob Junior Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Posts: 295 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 3,821.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 4,321.00 Donate	By the way, this is based on numbers PRE-Bush speech. 52%-41% Thoughts?

09-03-2004, 04:15 PM	#2
Bob Junior Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Posts: 295 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 3,821.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 4,321.00 Donate	Rasmussen.com is based on numbers from the last three nights, but so far Bush is up three and has a 54% approval rating among voters.

09-03-2004, 04:29 PM	#3
Bob Junior Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Posts: 295 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 3,821.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 4,321.00 Donate	Link: http://www.time.com/time/press_relea...692562,00.html

09-03-2004, 05:44 PM	#4
Nick Banned Join Date: Dec 1969 Posts: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 10,602.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 11,102.00 Donate	Its hard to tell on this poll because it doesn't disclose the questioning and all of the other technical stuff. Keep in mind that there's almost 10% that's still undecided, which (going by issue polls) will likely go more towards Kerry than Bush. Kerry fares much better on domestic issues, and historically US election have been primarily based on domestic issues. Also keep in mind that polls taken after political pep-rallies show a certain degree of inaccuracy. Then there's the entire issue of the +/- 4 points [ September 03, 2004, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: Lurch1982 ]

09-03-2004, 07:37 PM	#5
Bob Junior Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Posts: 295 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 3,821.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 4,321.00 Donate	Polls are reflecting that the Bush has gotten a bump out of the convention. I think it'll last, because Kerry's looking really pale by comparison. But yes, I think this poll is a bit of a fluke. I expect the numbers to be more like (but not identical to) 55-45.

09-03-2004, 07:42 PM	#6
Damon King Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: US Posts: 862 Thanks: 2 Thanked 6 Times in 3 Posts Points: 8,046.89 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 8,046.89 Donate	I'm voting Kerry, Whoever is put in office, better keep their damn hands outta my pockets.

09-03-2004, 07:53 PM	#7
Bob Junior Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Posts: 295 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 3,821.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 4,321.00 Donate	Uh, Bush is planning to push for tax reform. Kerry's the one proposing to raise taxes (and only for those making over $200,000 a year). Though Kerry will certainly raise every American's taxes. His ridiculous health care plan tries to cover everyone (including those who are young and don't care yet and illegal immigrants) and as such, it's way too expensive. To be fair, Bush also has a health care proposal, but that's because some Americans can't afford it or whatever. Bush's is far cheaper, which is why John Edwards keeps talking about health care as if it's a crisis. So why are you voting Kerry? (not trying to convince you so much as me just being curios)

09-05-2004, 08:24 AM	#8
Koga Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: The Netherlands Gender: Posts: 17,093 Thanks: 104 Thanked 173 Times in 116 Posts Points: 105,725.41 Bank: 19,215.78 Total Points: 124,941.19 Donate	Why would you lower taxes when you've got such an enormous deficit?

09-05-2004, 08:39 AM	#9
DELICIOUS POISON Retro Nintendo Supermod Art & Literature Mod Metroid Mod Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 16,164 Thanks: 513 Thanked 1,332 Times in 688 Posts Points: 4,588.74 Bank: 2,276,668.29 Total Points: 2,281,257.03 Donate	Because you're full of sh*t. Why else? OH, BECAUSE HE CARES ABOUT THE PEOPLE!!! My ass.

09-05-2004, 08:25 PM	#10
Everybody Nose All the girls standing in the line for the bathroom Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Birmingham, AL Gender: Posts: 13,221 Thanks: 981 Thanked 669 Times in 388 Posts Points: 47,230.31 Bank: 598,669.29 Total Points: 645,899.60 Donate	**** TIME, those chronological bastards. (wow I didn't know I just used that word)

09-05-2004, 09:25 PM	#11
Link2000 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Ontario, Canada Gender: Posts: 8,052 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Points: 16,283.15 Bank: 804.22 Total Points: 17,087.37 Donate	Is Bush gets reelected and continues to pull America into further debt, the next few administrations will be very hardpressed to pay it back and continue to provide services to the people.

09-06-2004, 02:32 AM	#12
Andy Warhol Newbie Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: inside a soup can Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 860.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 1,360.00 Donate	guys who's going to vote for bush REDNECKS thats who. so kerry has no chance of winnning because 99% of the US is made up on them

09-06-2004, 03:58 PM	#13
Bob Junior Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Posts: 295 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 3,821.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 4,321.00 Donate	Laffer curve. Look it up; cutting taxes brings in more money once the tax rate gets past a certain point (and we're still well past it). We've brought in more money under Bush than any year of the 90s except the last, which was before the recession. And the national debt is exaggerated. Any decent economist will tell you we're in decent shape (and Bush is going to cut the deficit in half). FACT: During his long career in the Senate, Kerry has proposed only one bill. FACT: It was to gut the intelligence agency with huge cuts in funding...after the first WTC attack. FACT: Kerry is such a great leader, he couldn't even get a single cosponsor to go along with it. That's his one Senate 'accomplishment.' The rest, he was just one liberal vote among many.

09-06-2004, 04:01 PM	#14
Prince Toad PC Mod Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Rookery Gender: Posts: 11,415 Thanks: 43 Thanked 56 Times in 47 Posts Points: 44,427.00 Bank: 21,026.32 Total Points: 65,453.32 Donate	^What the hell does that matter? I refuse to believe that Bush will make the deficit smaller by having less money. You're full of **. Besides, Bush wasn't much better... wait... he was a hell of a lot worse. Let's see, paid his way through college, dodged out of Vietnam, staggered around in a drunken stupor for a couple decades, killed a lot of people in Texas as governor, and became President. However much you want to make it about Kerry, it's about the incumbent and not the challenger. Keep your ** to yourself. [ September 06, 2004, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: Prince Toad ]

09-06-2004, 04:12 PM	#15
Bob Junior Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Posts: 295 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 3,821.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 4,321.00 Donate	Except we've taken in *more* money...oh wait, I already told you that in the THIRD sentance so shut the f*ck up and read. When more money is getting spent, and producitivity is up, more gets TAXED and government takes in MORE revenue. Deficit is because of increased spending; not reduced funding. Laffer curve: taxation slows productivity. The maximum benefit the government can get out of an economy, therefore, is not determined by a straight line, but an upside down U. By the way, NewsWeek also has Bush up with a double-digit lead (about the same results). Rasmussen shows Bush has a 53% approval rating among voters, and that's including a fluke sample for Kerry (holiday weekened). When the next Gallup poll comes out (better than anyone else), I expect Bush to have a 5-6 point lead. Eleven sounds a bit high, though if it does show that, I'll be happy.

09-06-2004, 06:22 PM	#17
Prince Toad PC Mod Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Rookery Gender: Posts: 11,415 Thanks: 43 Thanked 56 Times in 47 Posts Points: 44,427.00 Bank: 21,026.32 Total Points: 65,453.32 Donate	I'd bet some of those "murderers" were innocent. Too bad they're dead. You can't speak for Kerry because you weren't in Nam. If you were of age, and had been a normal person, you'd probably do the same if you had been drafted and sent into combat. He'd been to war (unlike Bush) and served honorably, but had realized atrocities were being committed on both sides and came back to become a protestor. What's wrong with that? He'd committed war crimes because a) He was ordered to and b) It's hard to think straight when a bullet could go through your head at any moment. A lot of soldiers, most of them probably, did the same. It was kill or be killed. Not that that's good-- the whole war was stupid. But for the soldiers who had to fight in it, that's how it was. Kerry brought up a good point on the Daily Show when he said something along the lines of going to war as a last resort, and that clearly wasn't the case in Iraq. There was no imminent threat to America. Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11. Bush just used it as an excuse to invade Iraq, which he'd wanted to do ever since they "tried to kill his daddy." Besides. What the hell does it matter what he did 30 years ago? Why is the Vietnam War such a huge issue when nothing can be done about it? Y'know, if they concentrated on actual issues, Bush would look like the tragical mistake of a President he is.

09-07-2004, 01:35 PM	#18
Bob Junior Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Posts: 295 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 3,821.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 4,321.00 Donate	Actually, I would have dodged the draft like Cheney and tons of other Americans. Being a protester (in general) is okay, but I'm just saying his past isn't quite as glorious as some make it out to be. The man is honored in a communist museum to this day for aiding the enemy, regardless of whether you think he did or not. I don't care what happened 30 years ago; I care about now. You're the one who brought up 30 years ago and dismissed Kerry's senate record is irrelevent. And, uh, Bush invaded Iraq because of his daddy? What now? [ September 07, 2004, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: The Master ]

09-07-2004, 03:54 PM	#19
Prince Toad PC Mod Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Rookery Gender: Posts: 11,415 Thanks: 43 Thanked 56 Times in 47 Posts Points: 44,427.00 Bank: 21,026.32 Total Points: 65,453.32 Donate	Dodging the draft is fine-- if you don't want to be President. Getting drunk and missing duty are the same deal. He even said in some speech "They even tried to kill my daddy." There was no valid reason to attack Iraq. They had no WMDs-- whatever the administration may "find" in the future-- and were not a threat to America, plus had nothing to do with 9/11. What? Which museum is this? What are you talking about?

09-07-2004, 04:36 PM	#20
Bob Junior Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Posts: 295 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 3,821.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 4,321.00 Donate	Ho Chi Minh City museum. I already proved you wrong on the WMDs, and I'm not wasting my time again.