Curious George lives up to his name...

[CaptHayfever]

Originally posted by Darth Flava:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Originally posted by CaptHayfever:
^
Phone conversation: "I don't like this war."
CIA conversation: "Move in."

You know what I have to say to all of you idiots who believe that this is how the US really is. PROVE to me when ever since the Patriot Act was created that the CIA has arrested somebody for disliking the war. Otherwise, all you people are proving is how ignorant all of you are to what the US government is trying to do to protect the nation. But, I guess all of you don't mind sitting next to a terrorist onboard a commercial airliner thousands of feet in the air. </font>[/quote]You know it's drastic when I'm heartily endorsing something Lurch said: Get a valid warrant and it's all good. It's the free reign tapping that is a threat.

Furthermore, as you said yourself, Flava, the government doesn't care about me and my friends talking about movies. SO WHY WASTE THE TIME & RESOURCES LISTENING TO ME? The two guys listening to my phone would be better used somewhere else investigating someone who's actually dangerous.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

[Darth_Flava]

YOU'RE RIGHT FLAVA! PERSONAL LIBERTIES SHOULD BE ABOLISHED! AS LONG AS TERRORISM EXISTS, WE SHOULDN'T EVEN LEAVE OUR HOUSES! WE ARE IN DANGER AT ALL TIMES! ANYONE SUSPECTED OF BEING A TERRORIST (READ:FOREIGNER) SHOULD BE TAKEN OUT BACK AND SHOT LIKE THEY SHOT OLD YELLER! NOBODY CARES ABOUT FREEDOM WHEN SUCH SANCTITY IS AT RISK!

IN FACT,

Ok first of all I never said anything like that dumb***. You all just blow one act completely out of proportion. I never said we should fear ever even going out of our own houses. And to whoever whined about airport security. GO F**K yourself. So what if they beefed up security and it takes longer to get to your destination. At least you can afford to go to an airport. Some of us work hard only to earn enough to fill up the tank of our car. Tell you what lets get rid of all of the checks, phone taps, and monitoring. Better yet why don't we just let anybody wander into the country and do what they want. When another plane crashes into a building or something worse happens then maybe all of you morons will understand. Until then STFU. The Patriot Act isn't even ruining your lives. It barely affects anyone except for those people who actually broke the law.

[Nick]

It's called a social security number.

Uh, no. The social security number can tell you many things about a person (job, education, bank accounts, drivers license, address, healthcare, etc), but it doesn't even go into the same category as open-ended warrantless wiretaps.

You're also being monitored everytime you use a debit or credit ok.

Again, that's totally different. There are only a select few things that trigger red flags (blasting caps + fertilizer, over the counter cough medication, etc). Unless you buy into the conspiracy theories, the government does not keep a record of everything charged. The stores do, especially if they take a phone number or you use one of those "preferred shopper" cards at a grocery, but that is used more for marketing purposes than anything else.

Some of you who think that this is just another mindless act crushing civil liberties also believe that the government shouldn't care about what we do because we're not going to do anything wrong.

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHA no.

Something should raise up a redflag when an Act contains a virtual wishlist of check-eroding powers that have been routinely rejected for the better part of a decade.

The government can't sit there and say "Oh you know what, I don't think we should monitor what is being said on the phone lines because some of these people have done nothing wrong".

Actually, they can and should. The government has no business monitering calls and IP records of everyone. Again, if it were a focused and performed with a court-approved warrant, there is no problem. Open-ended taps and monitering is wrong and contrary to the core principles of the United States.

Like I said before, unless you're like a child molestor, murderer or have something bad to hide, then shouldn't worry about the government checking what is being said when and where.

Who decides what is "something bad to hide." Some people would say being gay is something "bad to hide." Some people would say political beliefs (right or left) would fall into that category. Religious beliefs? You better believe it. If the government had reason to believe certain individuals were doing something illegally or potentially doing something illegally, they can get a court-ordered warrant to investigate further. This utter nonsense of going to libraries and saying "give me a list of people who've checked out book X is disgusting and has no purpose other than spying on Law-abiding Americans who are exercising their right to free speech.

I was talking more along the lines of a terrorist with a BOMB is his shoe. And yes a criminal has managed to get by checkpoint security with a bomb in his shoe and get on the plane.

Yeah dip****, and they now require you to remove your shoes to get on the plane. But the same government who you claim is serving our best interests by monitering our Internet and phone calls is lifting the ban on Scissors and Screwdrivers.

Ok first of all I never said anything like that dumb***. You all just blow one act completely out of proportion. I never said we should fear ever even going out of our own houses. And to whoever whined about airport security. GO F**K yourself. So what if they beefed up security and it takes longer to get to your destination. At least you can afford to go to an airport. Some of us work hard only to earn enough to fill up the tank of our car. Tell you what lets get rid of all of the checks, phone taps, and monitoring. Better yet why don't we just let anybody wander into the country and do what they want. When another plane crashes into a building or something worse happens then maybe all of you morons will understand. Until then STFU. The Patriot Act isn't even ruining your lives. It barely affects anyone except for those people who actually broke the law.

People like yourself are ultimately detrimental to the continued existance of free democracy. Why don't you go get some sort of historical perspective on why civil liberties are considered important and how many people suffered and died before they were granted. Do you want examples of why this is bad? Look at the Soviet block. Look at Nazi Germany. Look at the Taliban in Afganastan. Look at modern-day Iran. Nobody is saying the government should not have access to wiretapping in certain cases...it is the unfocused, unobjective, use of non-court approved wiretapping that is the major problem.

QFT.

[Chronos]

Originally posted by Darth Flava:
Also for the guy who said its 100 people against a terrorist on a plane with a plastic fork, that is not what I meant. I was talking more along the lines of a terrorist with a BOMB is his shoe. And yes a criminal has managed to get by checkpoint security with a bomb in his shoe and get on the plane.

You must either be blind, or just skimed through this entire thread. I made mention of being made to take off my shoes WAAAAY back at the beginning of the thread. Since you couldn't seem to find it the first time, I'll save you the trouble of looking for it: http://www.vgf.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ubbcg...856;p=1#000004

The sad and rather obvious truth is that terrorists won't be using planes again, if ever, in that manner for a long time. The reason is because it's now a known vector. You don't really see anything similar to what happened in Munich in 1972, because now counter-terrorist organizations look out for those sociopaths to try **** like that.

It won't be until 9/11/01 becomes like 12/7/41, that we might be attacked like that again. The attack on Pearl Harbor is now just a part of history for most people. For the people who lived through it and with it, their numbers are shrinking every year. It's when things move from social consciousness to recorded history that we truly become vunerable again.

[ December 31, 2005, 01:38 AM: Message edited by: CronoT ]

[Erdawn Il Deus]

Originally posted by Darth Flava:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> YOU'RE RIGHT FLAVA! PERSONAL LIBERTIES SHOULD BE ABOLISHED! AS LONG AS TERRORISM EXISTS, WE SHOULDN'T EVEN LEAVE OUR HOUSES! WE ARE IN DANGER AT ALL TIMES! ANYONE SUSPECTED OF BEING A TERRORIST (READ:FOREIGNER) SHOULD BE TAKEN OUT BACK AND SHOT LIKE THEY SHOT OLD YELLER! NOBODY CARES ABOUT FREEDOM WHEN SUCH SANCTITY IS AT RISK!

IN FACT,

Ok first of all I never said anything like that dumb***. You all just blow one act completely out of proportion. I never said we should fear ever even going out of our own houses. And to whoever whined about airport security. GO F**K yourself. So what if they beefed up security and it takes longer to get to your destination. At least you can afford to go to an airport. Some of us work hard only to earn enough to fill up the tank of our car. Tell you what lets get rid of all of the checks, phone taps, and monitoring. Better yet why don't we just let anybody wander into the country and do what they want. When another plane crashes into a building or something worse happens then maybe all of you morons will understand. Until then STFU. The Patriot Act isn't even ruining your lives. It barely affects anyone except for those people who actually broke the law. </font>[/quote]

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[El Barto]

Terrorism isn't actually a leading cause of death in the US. Why people will give up so much more to combat it than they would to, say, make cars safer?

[Lurch1982]

A car crash doesn't make the news. A plane flying into a building does. There's a sense of panic over it because the concept of terrorism is really one that's unknown and its a sense that the US has never had to deal with, whereas other places (UK, Spain, Israel in particular) have dealt with it for some time now.