Conservatives win Canadian General Election

[Sean P Kelly]

Personally I'm not happy about this, since I'm afraid that they are going to work on Americanizing Canada.

The bright side is that it's a Minority government, meaning that they need support from other parties to pass bills. And if they make one mistake, it's just a no-confidence vote away from another election (which is actually the reason there was an election yesterday)

[Link2000]

It's about bloody time!

That's the only defense that the left has any more here in Canada... They'll "Americanize" it. Besides the fact it's not true... how about we actually hear a real argument from the left for once?

The Liberals won't be finishing this any time soon. They're leaderless, and for the time being anyway, only a fool would vote against the Conservative priorities.

(Oh, and for the record my riding is one of only 6 in the GTA which voted Tory.)

[CaptHayfever]

Anything that makes Michael Moore angry without killing people is a good thing.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

[Lurch1982]

Yeah, except the US has shifted so far to the right that "conservatives" in other western countries are closer to moderate democrats in the US.

Far right = wrong.

[Link2000]

Yeah, Lurch is correct. The Conservatives are actually left of the Democrats on many issues.

Take Same-Sex Marriage for example: The Tories want to make civil unions for gays (tax breaks, all benefits of marriage), but keep marriage for male/female couples only. The Liberals were painting them as "extreme-right wing anti-gay" politicians.

[Lurch1982]

I think its mostly because the extreme fundamentalist crazies haven't hyjacked Conservative parties in other countries.

[Crazyswordsman]

Well, down here in the States, polls show that about 60% of Americans describe themselves as "Moderate." not "Conservative" or "Liberal." The only group that doesn't recoglize this is the Religious Right and the Faux News spin machine. So saying that "we're conservative" is actually a misnomer. Remember that the Republican majority (which I voted against) is weak and actually lost in 2005 state elections. The hijacking of the Republicans by the nutheads is starting to rear its ugly head.

Now, I don't know how Canadian politics works (Sean, I'd actually like some enlightenment on it), but I HAVE heard that it's actually more conservative than most Americans think. Areas like the High Plains (Manitoba, Sascatchwan, Alberta) tend to be conservative, while major areas such as Toronto and Vancouver tend to be more liberal, at least as far as I know. -CSM

[Sean P Kelly]

(I love Wikipedia)

This Map shows how Canada voted in this election.

As you can see, the Liberal strongholds are in Ontario (with Toronto being nearly ALL Liberal), Nunavut, the Maritime Provinces, and the Yukon.

The Conservatives hold the entire West coast, which includes British Columbia, Alberta (which is 100% Conservative), Saskatchewan, and Manitoba.

The Bloc Quebecois have owned Quebec for I don't know how long and the New Democratic Party has the only seat in the Northwest Territories.

Basically how this election went is that there are a certain number of seats available in the House of Commons (currently 308). Each seat represents a riding in Canada. When you go vote, you are voting for a Member of Parliament (MP) that will represent your riding.

So, to win, a party must have elected the most MPs in the House of Commons. Typically, to stay for a full term you need to win the majority of the seats(currently about 150).

With this election, the Conservatives won by only about 2 dozen seats to get a minority government. Since it's hard to get anything done with a minority (since you have to get the other parties to agree with you), the Government usually doesn't last for more than half a term before a no-confidence vote is made and an election is called (which is what happened last November with the Liberals).

I hope this educates you Americans on our (quite complicated) voting techniques. At least we don't have to worry about Chads (since we just use the old "X" on a ballot)

[Link2000]

Originally Posted by Crazyswordsman

Well, down here in the States, polls show that about 60% of Americans describe themselves as "Moderate." not "Conservative" or "Liberal." The only group that doesn't recoglize this is the Religious Right and the Faux News spin machine. So saying that "we're conservative" is actually a misnomer. Remember that the Republican majority (which I voted against) is weak and actually lost in 2005 state elections. The hijacking of the Republicans by the nutheads is starting to rear its ugly head.

Now, I don't know how Canadian politics works (Sean, I'd actually like some enlightenment on it), but I HAVE heard that it's actually more conservative than most Americans think. Areas like the High Plains (Manitoba, Sascatchwan, Alberta) tend to be conservative, while major areas such as Toronto and Vancouver tend to be more liberal, at least as far as I know. -CSM

Like I said before, the Conservatives are actually quite left of the Democrats on many issues (Health Care is a big one)

Saskatchewan is the birthplace of Canadian socialism. In fact, socialists are in power at the provincal level, yet the NDP had an extremely poor showing in the province this year. Lots of westerners are "protest voters" though. Many western NDPers (socialists) joined onto to Far right-wing Reform party (Now they could be compared to Republicans) when it was around.

Alberta is the only province in Canada which would even come close to voting Republican.

This election saw a major urban-rural split. The Tories (Conservatives) for example dominated rural ridings in Ontario (Like mine), while the Liberals won almost all of the seats in th Greater Toronto Area.

Canadians don't elect our Prime Minister, yet he has the sole power to appoint senate members, judges, etc. all without approval from the House. The US system is much more democratic.

[Lurch1982]

Thank the Brits for that, typical Parliamentary system.

General trends show that urban centers are more liberal while rural areas are more conservative across the board in any country.

Is Quebec still crying about wanting to leave or what?

US isn't more democratic in the sense that the concept of one-man-one-vote doesn't count in the Presidential system. As a result, you get things like 2000, where Gore has more votes but loses anyway. Or the whole thing of "if you live in a state that's automatically going in one direction, your vote essentially doesn't count" thing. The last presidential election basically focused on like 8 states out of 50 because of this thought.

[Prince Toad]

More like just Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Florida.

[CaptHayfever]

Since it's hard to get anything done with a minority (since you have to get the other parties to agree with you)

See, everybody, Canada & the US aren't so different! For example, we both have to deal with the madness of bloc-voting!

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

[Lurch1982]

No we don't. Parliamentary systems are totally different with voting. In the US, you constantly see Democrats and Republicans crossing the aisle, although the Republicans who cross the aisle tend to be the ones that haven't been hyjacked by the fundamentalists and neo-cons and think this current group is insane. The Democrats cross the aisle constantly, with only a few exceptions (East coast and West Coast Dems). Parliamentary systems rarely let members vote their conscience, so they get an efficiant form of getting legislation passed and judges appointed. If I remember correctly, you don't vote for individuals, you vote for the party and the seats are assigned. I could be confusing this with other forms of representative democracy though, since its been about 4 years since I've looked at modern British/Canadian government setups.

[Sean P Kelly]

Originally Posted by Lurch1982

If I remember correctly, you don't vote for individuals, you vote for the party and the seats are assigned.

I definitely remember voting for a human being.

Anywoo, you are curious why I don't like the Conservatives so much, it really has nothing with, previous Conservative Prime Minister, Brian Mulroney. It has everything to do with, former Conservative Ontario Premier, Mike Harris.

You see, Mike Harris' government had this Education bill known as The Education Improvement Act (Bill 160), which basically gave the Government full control of Education in the province. The school boards were very much against this Bill as such there were work-to-rules, strikes, and lock-outs.........all while I was enrolled in High School. I never had a normal, unfazed, year of High School until Grade 12.

So that, and the fact that my teacher mother will disown me if I vote them, is why I don't support the Conservatives.

[Lurch1982]

I think I'm getting it confused with a different system (maybe Israeli).

[Link2000]

Sounds like you're describing Proportial Representation.

Canada is spit into 308 ridings, and the party which wins the most ridings forms the government.

Gimpy, I don't know about your board, but our teachers went on strike to protest the "privatization" of our education. Teachers are way too hypocritical for me to take them seriously anymore. The real reason teachers unions don't like it is because they would rather argue with the school board than the government over funding. It's all greed, and the kids got caught in the crossfire.

I'd be much more pissed off at the NDP government here in Ontario. They absolutley destoryed the education system, and Harris fixed it.

[Erdawn Il Deus]

I really just want the Conservatives up there to give the Liberals a chance to sit down, smarten up, and clean up their act.

Oh, an for the record - I am definitely against the americanisation of Canada.

[Sean P Kelly]

Originally Posted by Link2000

Gimpy, I don't know about your board, but our teachers went on strike to protest the "privatization" of our education. Teachers are way too hypocritical for me to take them seriously anymore. The real reason teachers unions don't like it is because they would rather argue with the school board than the government over funding. It's all greed, and the kids got caught in the crossfire.

Well, let me just say (I think) you don't have a parent whose a teacher, so you wouldn't no first hand the problems they go through (but, then again, you can call me biased)

I was reading today's Toronto Star and, as it so happens, it turns out Stephen Harper is against the americanization too (or at least he wants to protect Canada's sovereignty with the US)

[El Barto]

Originally Posted by Link2000

Yeah, Lurch is correct. The Conservatives are actually left of the Democrats on many issues.

Take Same-Sex Marriage for example: The Tories want to make civil unions for gays (tax breaks, all benefits of marriage), but keep marriage for male/female couples only. The Liberals were painting them as "extreme-right wing anti-gay" politicians.

Really, I'm not convinced Harper would have tried that even if he had a majority. It's the wrong move. The Charter or Rights and Freedoms specifically prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation, courts across the country have struck down anti-gay marriage legislation, and introducing said legislation would require the notwithstanding clause (Which, if not political suicide, would be pretty severe political self-mutilation).