Affirmative Action - Page 3

11-25-2003, 10:24 PM

^ Dude, you may want to edit some of your post, before some people completely nail you. You said a couple of things that are really over the top generalizations. Whites tend to care more about society? I have no idea where you got that idea from.

Really, one of my only real problems with AA is that minorities arn't the only people who are having problems with life. There are a lot of whites who have just as crappy lives as minorities. Some even more so. Who's looking out for them? And what about the privileged african americans, who were already well off? Should they get an added bonus because of their race?

I'm not trying to start anything. Just some random stuff that comes to my mind when I think about this topic.-jay

[ November 25, 2003, 09:31 PM: Message edited by: Perrin Aybara ]

imported_AJ Middleton · 11-25-2003, 10:34 PM

Quote:

From what I've seen, whites generally tend to be the most concerned with making a difference in society anyway.

MMM, you are an ignorant, bigoted, fool. Worse than Peters and the Huffs combined. Ridiculous. What a sick and awful generalization.

Your posts don't even deserve replies.

[ November 25, 2003, 09:35 PM: Message edited by: BoltDragoon ]

imported_AJ Middleton · 11-25-2003, 10:34 PM

[Double post]

[ November 25, 2003, 09:35 PM: Message edited by: BoltDragoon ]

11-25-2003, 10:43 PM

Oh well. I tired to warn him, heh.-jay

11-25-2003, 10:53 PM

Before you tell me how racist I am, look at what I said.

1.) I said generally.

I didn't say ALL whites are more concerned than ALL blacks. Anybody that believes THAT is racist and is an idiot. What I meant by generally is that the proportion of whites that are highly concerned is large than the proportion of blacks.

That doesn't mean there aren't many concerned blacks and unconcerned whites. That doesn't mean being white makes you concerned and being black makes you unconcerned. Every intelligent person knows we have a large number of decent, concerned blacks in the U.S. and a large numbert of unconcerned whites in society.

However, I'm merely saying that the proportions of each ethnic group that are cocerned are different. That's it.

Look at it this way. Let's assume I say the average income of group A is $50,000 a year. The average income of group B is only $40,000 a year. While the folks in group A are generally rich than those in Group B, there are probably a number of folks in Group B that are very rich by Group A standards.

Similarly saying people from Group A are more likely to do something than people from Group B doesn't mean that there aren't many from Group B doing something. It also doesn't mean that everyone from Group A does something.

2.) I think the claim is valid. If you look at volunteer organizations/movements, you'll observe that they tend to have a disproportionate number of whites.

If you don't believe, look at all the causes in our country. Look at the anti-war protests. Who was marching? Look at the environmentalist organizations. Who wants to save the trees and whales? Look at the organ and marrow donation rates among the different races.

You'll observe those involved tend to be disproportionately white. However, that doesn't mean that many blacks and others don't contribute. They certainly do contribute and their contributions are nice. The point is that the proportion of them contributing is lower than proportion of whites.

Lurch's point was that racial diversity brings in people that can contribute more, which implies non-whites contribute more. I was merely offering a refutation. I didn't mean to stereotype anyone or hurt anybody's feelings. I'm sorry if I did. Anyway I'm not saying that there aren't certain individuals from every race that are good and bad.

[ November 25, 2003, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: Mushroommarioman ]

11-25-2003, 11:18 PM

Yeah, but you see, I still don't see where you get this generalizations from. If you say something like that, you need a little more proof then just "I look around and that's what I see." Plus, the one thing you forgot is that one reason why you may see more whites, in proportion, in activist movements, is because, maybe, whites are a bigger proportion of the population. A second reason is that you may not be looking at the right activities. Could it possibly be that african americans are involved with other social, volunteering and activist groups then the ones you have mentioned? I mean, personally, I have seen many african americans involved with activies such as civil rights movements and volunteer efforts to help feed the poor and homeless.

MMM, I'm not yelling at you or calling you a racist. I'm just saying that your particular generalization is in all likelyhood flat out wrong and you should just think a second before posting something like that.-jay

DARTH BOWSER · 11-26-2003, 05:06 AM

I look at Flint and I see proof enough.

11-26-2003, 09:57 AM

"Flint" isn't a unique enough name to use on its own in this context. What are you talking about?

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

Link47 · 11-26-2003, 10:43 AM

I think he's refering to Flint, Michagin.

Lurch1982 · 11-26-2003, 01:33 PM

Generalizations are evil. Try not to use them when arguing or you'll piss people off and completely undermine your point (like you just did).

DARTH BOWSER · 11-26-2003, 03:10 PM

I thought Flint was famous enough through that one idiot.

Yeah, Flint Michigan is what I'm referring to.

11-26-2003, 09:06 PM

Of course a lot of blacks and others are involved with volunteering, which is good. I'm sure many of them are activists. I just don't see many of them outside civil rights organizations. Since no statistics exist, I can just tell you what I see when I look at an anti-war protest or the environmentalist movemement. I'm sure many are concerned with the environment or the anti-war movement, but their numbers in these movemements are probably not in proportion to their numbers in the general population.

I think a lot of the pro-activism attitude found among whites is related to cultural factors that emerged from Western Europe. That's probably why activist movements involving anti-war protests or environmentalism are disproportionately white. Given that cultures do change, I think it's possible for more non-whites to develop an activist attitude over time. However, today's activism is defintely the strongest in Western Europe and America.

I do agree that I probably shouldn't have said that since it caused way too much controversy and wasn't something I wanted to argue about. My point was that race had nothing to do with how much volunteering or activism a person would participate in. Activism is an individual decision, but can be influenced by the environment you live in.

[ November 26, 2003, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: Mushroommarioman ]

11-25-2003, 10:24 PM	#41
Perrin Aybara Guest Posts: n/a Points: 0 Bank: 0 Total Points: 0 Donate	^ Dude, you may want to edit some of your post, before some people completely nail you. You said a couple of things that are really over the top generalizations. Whites tend to care more about society? I have no idea where you got that idea from. Really, one of my only real problems with AA is that minorities arn't the only people who are having problems with life. There are a lot of whites who have just as crappy lives as minorities. Some even more so. Who's looking out for them? And what about the privileged african americans, who were already well off? Should they get an added bonus because of their race? I'm not trying to start anything. Just some random stuff that comes to my mind when I think about this topic.-jay [ November 25, 2003, 09:31 PM: Message edited by: Perrin Aybara ]

11-25-2003, 10:34 PM	#43
imported_AJ Middleton Join Date: Dec 1969 Posts: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 379.00 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 379.00 Donate	[Double post] [ November 25, 2003, 09:35 PM: Message edited by: BoltDragoon ]

11-25-2003, 10:43 PM	#44
Perrin Aybara Guest Posts: n/a Points: 0 Bank: 0 Total Points: 0 Donate	Oh well. I tired to warn him, heh.-jay

11-25-2003, 10:53 PM	#45
Mushroommarioman Guest Posts: n/a Points: 0 Bank: 0 Total Points: 0 Donate	Before you tell me how racist I am, look at what I said. 1.) I said generally. I didn't say ALL whites are more concerned than ALL blacks. Anybody that believes THAT is racist and is an idiot. What I meant by generally is that the proportion of whites that are highly concerned is large than the proportion of blacks. That doesn't mean there aren't many concerned blacks and unconcerned whites. That doesn't mean being white makes you concerned and being black makes you unconcerned. Every intelligent person knows we have a large number of decent, concerned blacks in the U.S. and a large numbert of unconcerned whites in society. However, I'm merely saying that the proportions of each ethnic group that are cocerned are different. That's it. Look at it this way. Let's assume I say the average income of group A is $50,000 a year. The average income of group B is only $40,000 a year. While the folks in group A are generally rich than those in Group B, there are probably a number of folks in Group B that are very rich by Group A standards. Similarly saying people from Group A are more likely to do something than people from Group B doesn't mean that there aren't many from Group B doing something. It also doesn't mean that everyone from Group A does something. 2.) I think the claim is valid. If you look at volunteer organizations/movements, you'll observe that they tend to have a disproportionate number of whites. If you don't believe, look at all the causes in our country. Look at the anti-war protests. Who was marching? Look at the environmentalist organizations. Who wants to save the trees and whales? Look at the organ and marrow donation rates among the different races. You'll observe those involved tend to be disproportionately white. However, that doesn't mean that many blacks and others don't contribute. They certainly do contribute and their contributions are nice. The point is that the proportion of them contributing is lower than proportion of whites. Lurch's point was that racial diversity brings in people that can contribute more, which implies non-whites contribute more. I was merely offering a refutation. I didn't mean to stereotype anyone or hurt anybody's feelings. I'm sorry if I did. Anyway I'm not saying that there aren't certain individuals from every race that are good and bad. [ November 25, 2003, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: Mushroommarioman ]

11-25-2003, 11:18 PM	#46
Perrin Aybara Guest Posts: n/a Points: 0 Bank: 0 Total Points: 0 Donate	Yeah, but you see, I still don't see where you get this generalizations from. If you say something like that, you need a little more proof then just "I look around and that's what I see." Plus, the one thing you forgot is that one reason why you may see more whites, in proportion, in activist movements, is because, maybe, whites are a bigger proportion of the population. A second reason is that you may not be looking at the right activities. Could it possibly be that african americans are involved with other social, volunteering and activist groups then the ones you have mentioned? I mean, personally, I have seen many african americans involved with activies such as civil rights movements and volunteer efforts to help feed the poor and homeless. MMM, I'm not yelling at you or calling you a racist. I'm just saying that your particular generalization is in all likelyhood flat out wrong and you should just think a second before posting something like that.-jay

11-26-2003, 05:06 AM	#47
DARTH BOWSER Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Swartz Creek, Michigan, USA Posts: 5,731 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 297.00 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 297.00 Donate	I look at Flint and I see proof enough.

11-26-2003, 09:57 AM	#48
CaptHayfever Guest Posts: n/a Points: 0 Bank: 0 Total Points: 0 Donate	"Flint" isn't a unique enough name to use on its own in this context. What are you talking about? And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

11-26-2003, 10:43 AM	#49
Link47 Senior Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: USA Posts: 8,377 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 25,396.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 25,896.00 Donate	I think he's refering to Flint, Michagin.

11-26-2003, 01:33 PM	#50
Lurch1982 Senior Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Katrinaland, USA Gender: Posts: 9,150 Thanks: 119 Thanked 204 Times in 126 Posts Points: 27,606.51 Bank: 172,759.35 Total Points: 200,365.86 Donate	Generalizations are evil. Try not to use them when arguing or you'll piss people off and completely undermine your point (like you just did).

11-26-2003, 03:10 PM	#51
DARTH BOWSER Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Swartz Creek, Michigan, USA Posts: 5,731 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 297.00 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 297.00 Donate	I thought Flint was famous enough through that one idiot. Yeah, Flint Michigan is what I'm referring to.

11-26-2003, 09:06 PM	#52
Mushroommarioman Guest Posts: n/a Points: 0 Bank: 0 Total Points: 0 Donate	Of course a lot of blacks and others are involved with volunteering, which is good. I'm sure many of them are activists. I just don't see many of them outside civil rights organizations. Since no statistics exist, I can just tell you what I see when I look at an anti-war protest or the environmentalist movemement. I'm sure many are concerned with the environment or the anti-war movement, but their numbers in these movemements are probably not in proportion to their numbers in the general population. I think a lot of the pro-activism attitude found among whites is related to cultural factors that emerged from Western Europe. That's probably why activist movements involving anti-war protests or environmentalism are disproportionately white. Given that cultures do change, I think it's possible for more non-whites to develop an activist attitude over time. However, today's activism is defintely the strongest in Western Europe and America. I do agree that I probably shouldn't have said that since it caused way too much controversy and wasn't something I wanted to argue about. My point was that race had nothing to do with how much volunteering or activism a person would participate in. Activism is an individual decision, but can be influenced by the environment you live in. [ November 26, 2003, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: Mushroommarioman ]