Affirmative Action - VGF

Princess Zelda of Hyrule · 11-21-2003, 07:43 PM

We had a good debate going on this subject. I think we should revive it. Plus, this forum needs another topic. So...what are your views?

I, for one, see no problem with the idea of giving people without access to education a chance. But I think AA is a bad approach to this. To get to the top and stay there securely, you have to start at the bottom. And if our aim is to break down the barriers of racial prejudice by educating minority races, then we can't expect to get there by making racist and borderline Americans even angrier, and giving minorities a reputation of not being able to help themselves. Minorities aren't special; they're capable and human, just like the rest of us. Give them time, give them sensible assistance, but don't give them success on a platter.

[ November 21, 2003, 06:45 PM: Message edited by: Princess Zelda of Hyrule: God Bless ]

imported_AJ Middleton · 11-21-2003, 07:56 PM

AA isn't success on a platter.

AA has been cursed with jealousy born from misunderstanding.

Lurch1982 · 11-21-2003, 09:01 PM

Blahblahblah, more blatent misconceptions.

11-21-2003, 09:05 PM

I don't understand why they ask for a person's race on applications to begin with.-jay

Plus, wouldn't the money be better spent, oh, I donno, improving inner city schools?-jay

[ November 21, 2003, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: Perrin Aybara ]

11-21-2003, 09:21 PM

I'm not too sure on the whole thing. If companies could be depended on hiring the best, without any prejudice, it'd be a very nice world to live in. If there were better ways to prevent discrimination, we should do that, and just put the extra money into scholarships for minorities. Therefore, those that excel will do well but it'll still be a level playing field for jobs.

My dad was the first Vice President that was non-white in his company. He was an immigrant, too. It took a lot of hard work, and I don't think it was the help of AA, but his company is very nice...

Princess Zelda of Hyrule · 11-21-2003, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Blahblahblah, more blatent misconceptions.

Well, blahblahblah, defend yourself. How is what I said a misconception, and what is the reality of AA?

[ November 21, 2003, 08:33 PM: Message edited by: Princess Zelda of Hyrule: God Bless ]

11-21-2003, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Perrin Aybara:
I don't understand why they ask for a person's race on applications to begin with.-jay

Plus, wouldn't the money be better spent, oh, I donno, improving inner city schools?-jay

-Hayfever

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

imported_AJ Middleton · 11-21-2003, 10:25 PM

Race is there for AA and diversity reasons.

11-21-2003, 11:51 PM

Well...I know that. I'm just saying that if we all truely want to be fair, equal, ect, why ask at all? Why even take it into concideration? Can't we just hire people based on their skill?-jay

Lurch1982 · 11-22-2003, 12:03 AM

I'm not the one that should defend myself. You're the person who says the program should be scrapped, yet you have no idea outside of some common misconception of what it is.

Link47 · 11-22-2003, 01:03 PM

Companies and schools should take the best. If the best all happen to be white, then so be it. Try harder and maybe you can become one of the best.

Princess Zelda of Hyrule · 11-22-2003, 04:44 PM

Quote:

I'm not the one that should defend myself. You're the person who says the program should be scrapped, yet you have no idea outside of some common misconception of what it is.

Then tell me what it is, instead of just firing accusations.

11-22-2003, 07:06 PM

Affirmative action will probably never be abolished as long as there's inequality between different groups of people. It will actually keep increasing in usage since the proportion of Americans that aren't white is increasing quickly.

Lurch1982 · 11-22-2003, 07:59 PM

Well, going by the court cases over the summer involving the U of Michigan, they aren't expecting another supreme court decision for 25 years on the subject (basically said they didn't think the progs were going to be needed at that point).

DARTH BOWSER · 11-23-2003, 03:14 PM

Affirmative Action is a joke in that talented people can miss out just because a place doesn't have enough of Race A so they have to hire someone from Race A whether they're qualified or too stupid to do the job. There is no inherent problem if person from Race A is qualified but if he's a ******* then there's a problem.

Lurch1982 · 11-23-2003, 03:18 PM

Define qualified.

DARTH BOWSER · 11-23-2003, 03:22 PM

Knows the **** he needs to know for the job. I've heard of too many times when someone qualifed missed out because of diversity laws.

11-23-2003, 04:23 PM

My opinion in one sentence:

When's the next flight to Japan?

11-23-2003, 04:41 PM

There's that recent issue when that Blair guy from the NY Times was hired with AA, I believe, and was underqualified for the job. He ended up getting stressed out and making a lot of stories completely up, just because he wanted to prove he was worthy of the job and keep up. Big problem for the NY Times. At least I think that's how it went. I could be wrong. But I do know that the guy in question came from the University of Maryland, sadly, heh.-jay

11-23-2003, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lurch1982:
Define qualified.

What, did someone finally define "is" for you?

On another note, when are you gonna tell PZoH what AA really is so that she can make an "informed" statement on the subject?

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

11-21-2003, 07:43 PM	#1
Princess Zelda of Hyrule Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Hyrule Castle Gender: Posts: 6,128 Thanks: 35 Thanked 14 Times in 10 Posts Points: 6,478.36 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 6,978.36 Donate	We had a good debate going on this subject. I think we should revive it. Plus, this forum needs another topic. So...what are your views? I, for one, see no problem with the idea of giving people without access to education a chance. But I think AA is a bad approach to this. To get to the top and stay there securely, you have to start at the bottom. And if our aim is to break down the barriers of racial prejudice by educating minority races, then we can't expect to get there by making racist and borderline Americans even angrier, and giving minorities a reputation of not being able to help themselves. Minorities aren't special; they're capable and human, just like the rest of us. Give them time, give them sensible assistance, but don't give them success on a platter. [ November 21, 2003, 06:45 PM: Message edited by: Princess Zelda of Hyrule: God Bless ]

11-21-2003, 07:56 PM	#2
imported_AJ Middleton Join Date: Dec 1969 Posts: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 216.00 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 216.00 Donate	AA isn't success on a platter. AA has been cursed with jealousy born from misunderstanding.

11-21-2003, 09:01 PM	#3
Lurch1982 Senior Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Katrinaland, USA Gender: Posts: 9,113 Thanks: 119 Thanked 185 Times in 120 Posts Points: 25,152.94 Bank: 133,548.59 Total Points: 158,701.53 Donate	Blahblahblah, more blatent misconceptions.

11-21-2003, 09:05 PM	#4
Perrin Aybara Guest Posts: n/a Points: 0 Bank: 0 Total Points: 0 Donate	I don't understand why they ask for a person's race on applications to begin with.-jay Plus, wouldn't the money be better spent, oh, I donno, improving inner city schools?-jay [ November 21, 2003, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: Perrin Aybara ]

11-21-2003, 09:21 PM	#5
SilverWind Guest Posts: n/a Points: 0 Bank: 0 Total Points: 0 Donate	I'm not too sure on the whole thing. If companies could be depended on hiring the best, without any prejudice, it'd be a very nice world to live in. If there were better ways to prevent discrimination, we should do that, and just put the extra money into scholarships for minorities. Therefore, those that excel will do well but it'll still be a level playing field for jobs. My dad was the first Vice President that was non-white in his company. He was an immigrant, too. It took a lot of hard work, and I don't think it was the help of AA, but his company is very nice...

11-21-2003, 10:25 PM	#8
imported_AJ Middleton Join Date: Dec 1969 Posts: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 216.00 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 216.00 Donate	Race is there for AA and diversity reasons.

11-21-2003, 11:51 PM	#9
Perrin Aybara Guest Posts: n/a Points: 0 Bank: 0 Total Points: 0 Donate	Well...I know that. I'm just saying that if we all truely want to be fair, equal, ect, why ask at all? Why even take it into concideration? Can't we just hire people based on their skill?-jay

11-22-2003, 12:03 AM	#10
Lurch1982 Senior Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Katrinaland, USA Gender: Posts: 9,113 Thanks: 119 Thanked 185 Times in 120 Posts Points: 25,152.94 Bank: 133,548.59 Total Points: 158,701.53 Donate	I'm not the one that should defend myself. You're the person who says the program should be scrapped, yet you have no idea outside of some common misconception of what it is.

11-22-2003, 01:03 PM	#11
Link47 Senior Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: USA Posts: 8,377 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 22,370.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 22,870.00 Donate	Companies and schools should take the best. If the best all happen to be white, then so be it. Try harder and maybe you can become one of the best.

11-22-2003, 07:06 PM	#13
Mushroommarioman Guest Posts: n/a Points: 0 Bank: 0 Total Points: 0 Donate	Affirmative action will probably never be abolished as long as there's inequality between different groups of people. It will actually keep increasing in usage since the proportion of Americans that aren't white is increasing quickly.

11-22-2003, 07:59 PM	#14
Lurch1982 Senior Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Katrinaland, USA Gender: Posts: 9,113 Thanks: 119 Thanked 185 Times in 120 Posts Points: 25,152.94 Bank: 133,548.59 Total Points: 158,701.53 Donate	Well, going by the court cases over the summer involving the U of Michigan, they aren't expecting another supreme court decision for 25 years on the subject (basically said they didn't think the progs were going to be needed at that point).

11-23-2003, 03:14 PM	#15
DARTH BOWSER Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Swartz Creek, Michigan, USA Posts: 5,731 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 205.00 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 205.00 Donate	Affirmative Action is a joke in that talented people can miss out just because a place doesn't have enough of Race A so they have to hire someone from Race A whether they're qualified or too stupid to do the job. There is no inherent problem if person from Race A is qualified but if he's a ******* then there's a problem.

11-23-2003, 03:18 PM	#16
Lurch1982 Senior Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Katrinaland, USA Gender: Posts: 9,113 Thanks: 119 Thanked 185 Times in 120 Posts Points: 25,152.94 Bank: 133,548.59 Total Points: 158,701.53 Donate	Define qualified.

11-23-2003, 03:22 PM	#17
DARTH BOWSER Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Swartz Creek, Michigan, USA Posts: 5,731 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 205.00 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 205.00 Donate	Knows the **** he needs to know for the job. I've heard of too many times when someone qualifed missed out because of diversity laws.

11-23-2003, 04:23 PM	#18
Poochy Guest Posts: n/a Points: 0 Bank: 0 Total Points: 0 Donate	My opinion in one sentence: When's the next flight to Japan?

11-23-2003, 04:41 PM	#19
Perrin Aybara Guest Posts: n/a Points: 0 Bank: 0 Total Points: 0 Donate	There's that recent issue when that Blair guy from the NY Times was hired with AA, I believe, and was underqualified for the job. He ended up getting stressed out and making a lot of stories completely up, just because he wanted to prove he was worthy of the job and keep up. Big problem for the NY Times. At least I think that's how it went. I could be wrong. But I do know that the guy in question came from the University of Maryland, sadly, heh.-jay