Black people 'less intelligent' scientist claims

**Dr. Horrible** · 10-17-2007, 09:14 PM

One of the world’s most respected scientists is embroiled in an extraordinary row after claiming that black people are less intelligent than white people.

James Watson, a Nobel Prize winner for his part in discovering the structure of DNA, has provoked outrage with his comments, made ahead of his arrival in Britain today.

More fierce criticism of the eminent scientist is expected as he embarks on a number of engagements to promote a new book ‘Avoid Boring People: Lessons from a Life in Science’. Among his first commitments is a speech to a London audience at the Science Museum on Friday. The event is sold out.

Dr Watson, who runs one of America’s leading scientific research institutions, made the controversial remarks in an interview in The Sunday Times.

The 79-year-old geneticist said he was “inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa” because “all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really.". He said he hoped that everyone was equal, but countered that “people who have to deal with black employees find this not true”.

He says that you should not discriminate on the basis of colour, because “there are many people of colour who are very talented, but don’t promote them when they haven’t succeeded at the lower level”. He writes that “there is no firm reason to anticipate that the intellectual capacities of peoples geographically separated in their evolution should prove to have evolved identically. Our wanting to reserve equal powers of reason as some universal heritage of humanity will not be enough to make it so”.

He claimed genes responsible for creating differences in human intelligence could be found within a decade.

The newly formed Equality and Human Rights Commission is studying Dr Watson’s remarks “in full”.

Keith Vaz, the Labour chairman of the Home Affairs Select Committee, said today: “It is sad to see a scientist of such achievement making such baseless, unscientific and extremely offensive comments.

“I am sure the scientific community will roundly reject what appear to be Dr Watson’s personal prejudices. These comments serve as a reminder of the attitudes which can still exist at the highest professional levels.”

Dr Watson was hailed as achieving one of the greatest single scientific breakthroughs of the 20th century when he worked at the University of Cambridge in the 1950s and 1960s, forming part of the team which discovered the structure of DNA.

Black people 'less intelligent' scientist claims - Times Online

Dr Watson is no stranger to controversy. He has been reported in the past saying that a woman should have the right to abort her unborn child if tests could determine it would be homosexual.

In addition, he has suggested a link between skin colour and sex drive, proposing a theory that black people have higher libidos.

He also claimed that beauty could be genetically manufactured, saying: “People say it would be terrible if we made all girls pretty. I think it would be great.”

Colin Greenwood · 10-17-2007, 09:34 PM

Wow. Just... wow.

**Wyborn** · 10-17-2007, 09:47 PM

I'm not sure what to say here. I'm certainly curious, but good God.

Swordmaster Link · 10-17-2007, 09:54 PM

At this rate, I might as well go to Ron Burgundy for my scientific edification.

"You're just a woman with a small brain, a brain a third the size of ours. It's science."

Super Murdero Bros. · 10-17-2007, 10:02 PM

Old news (James Watson).

MC Mushi Mo · 10-17-2007, 10:09 PM

Oh the Boondocks referrences I could make right now.

**Dr. Horrible** · 10-17-2007, 10:19 PM

“There is no firm reason to anticipate that the intellectual capacities of peoples geographically separated in their evolution should prove to have evolved identically. Our wanting to reserve equal powers of reason as some universal heritage of humanity will not be enough to make it so.”

See, this is even an interesting hypothesis, but until he bases it on anything other than "employers tell me black employees suck" he's just another racist and the fact that he's a brilliant scientist is irrelevant in the matter.

**Wyborn** · 10-17-2007, 10:24 PM

That's just the thing, though, isn't it? This isn't something you expect to come out a Nobel Prize winner. That is a class of person you expect to typically make a modicum of sense.

Part of me wants to read his reasoning just to see if I'm smart enough to shred it.

DJ Ryan · 10-17-2007, 10:28 PM

Interesting but ridiculous. We've been in the Americas for hundreds of years, only reason you could possibly claim that is because we weren't able to read for centuries. To say that ALL blacks are dumber than whites is a revert back to the 60s and ****.

And to link intellegence to skin color is ludicrous.

**Crazyswordsman** · 10-17-2007, 11:45 PM

And the intelligence level of trailer trash in the states of Alabama and Mississippi (and probably every other state, but Mississippi and Alabama are the two that come to mind, no offense to people from those two states) further disproves this man's theory.

-CSM

**Cravdraa** · 10-18-2007, 02:31 AM

Hmm... make a racist joke in poor taste or just call him an ignorant idiot.
I'll go with number 2.
It's sad that racism can run this deep.

***Ace Mercury*** · 10-18-2007, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyborn

That's just the thing, though, isn't it? This isn't something you expect to come out a Nobel Prize winner.

I don't know about that; there have been some pretty controversial Nobel Prize winners. =\

The concept that "intelligence doesn't evolve the same everywhere" is kind of ill-founded. All of humanity expanded outwards pretty quickly, in evolutionary timescales; this is why you can boink anyone of the opposite gender and have kids.

Anyways, I can't recall the exact quote, but, paraphrasing, people generally don't change their minds; to get a new paradigm, the old generation literally dies out and the new generation adopts it. We see it with technology, and we see it with cultural world views vis a vis racism. Watson is an old man, to be sure.

**Dr. Horrible** · 10-18-2007, 07:48 AM

Well, the dude is around 80. His generation didn't grow up being told racism was bad.

Edit:Ace got me by a few seconds.

**Crazyswordsman** · 10-18-2007, 08:32 AM

What's interesting is a few years ago there was a scientist saying that the skin color gene accounts for, like a hundreth of a percent of the DNA. -CSM

**Booyakasha** · 10-18-2007, 09:13 AM

As a student-scientist, I should like to see what justification he offers for his conclusions before I call him a racist. It's not like this is just some mentalist in a white sheet; this is a Nobel Prize-winning scientist, for heaven's sake.

Auron · 10-18-2007, 09:42 AM

As much as I found the rest of his ideas in this article to be complete and udder crap, I did think that this little thought was quite amusing:

Quote:

He also claimed that beauty could be genetically manufactured, saying: “People say it would be terrible if we made all girls pretty. I think it would be great.”

I wouldn't mind it. Maybe I'd actually find a girlfriend then.

**Dr. Horrible** · 10-18-2007, 10:52 AM

On the issue of obesity, Watson has also been quoted as saying: "Whenever you interview fat people, you feel bad, because you know you're not going to hire them."

Ok, that one made me laugh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Booyakasha

As a student-scientist, I should like to see what justification he offers for his conclusions before I call him a racist. It's not like this is just some mentalist in a white sheet; this is a Nobel Prize-winning scientist, for heaven's sake.

In the article, he's quoted as saying that "the genes responsible for creating differences in human intelligence could be found within a decade." Until they are found, isn't what he says just speculation?

***Ace Mercury*** · 10-18-2007, 11:43 AM

Well, he's probably recalling some papers published back in the fifties about how black people are unsmart. He is probably wondering where all the personal hovercraft are.

**Booyakasha** · 10-18-2007, 11:52 AM

Speculation is the basis of hypothetical thinking.

What I'm interested in seeing is the methodology by which he arrived at his conclusion. Did he just think to himself, "man oh man, black guys are dumb", or did he actually go at it from a scientific point of view--aka, starting with a hypothesis, doing research, conducting or observing an experiment, analyzing the data statistically, and delivering an objective interpretation? If the first, it's racist. If the second, it's probably flawed methodology.

**Dr. Horrible** · 10-18-2007, 12:06 PM

I'm not knocking speculation, just his decision to go on record claiming blacks have evolved to be cognitively disadvantaged without properly researching the matter, which he doesn't seem to have done. Granted, I can't imagine he'd have an easy time finding funding for such research.

10-17-2007, 09:14 PM	#1
Dr. Horrible PP&R Mod Current Events Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: More important than where is when.... Gender: Posts: 6,725 Thanks: 126 Thanked 449 Times in 299 Posts Points: 2,756.05 Bank: 3,899,087.98 Total Points: 3,901,844.03 Donate	Black people 'less intelligent' scientist claims One of the world’s most respected scientists is embroiled in an extraordinary row after claiming that black people are less intelligent than white people. James Watson, a Nobel Prize winner for his part in discovering the structure of DNA, has provoked outrage with his comments, made ahead of his arrival in Britain today. More fierce criticism of the eminent scientist is expected as he embarks on a number of engagements to promote a new book ‘Avoid Boring People: Lessons from a Life in Science’. Among his first commitments is a speech to a London audience at the Science Museum on Friday. The event is sold out. Dr Watson, who runs one of America’s leading scientific research institutions, made the controversial remarks in an interview in The Sunday Times. The 79-year-old geneticist said he was “inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa” because “all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really.". He said he hoped that everyone was equal, but countered that “people who have to deal with black employees find this not true”. He says that you should not discriminate on the basis of colour, because “there are many people of colour who are very talented, but don’t promote them when they haven’t succeeded at the lower level”. He writes that “there is no firm reason to anticipate that the intellectual capacities of peoples geographically separated in their evolution should prove to have evolved identically. Our wanting to reserve equal powers of reason as some universal heritage of humanity will not be enough to make it so”. He claimed genes responsible for creating differences in human intelligence could be found within a decade. The newly formed Equality and Human Rights Commission is studying Dr Watson’s remarks “in full”. Keith Vaz, the Labour chairman of the Home Affairs Select Committee, said today: “It is sad to see a scientist of such achievement making such baseless, unscientific and extremely offensive comments. “I am sure the scientific community will roundly reject what appear to be Dr Watson’s personal prejudices. These comments serve as a reminder of the attitudes which can still exist at the highest professional levels.” Dr Watson was hailed as achieving one of the greatest single scientific breakthroughs of the 20th century when he worked at the University of Cambridge in the 1950s and 1960s, forming part of the team which discovered the structure of DNA. Black people 'less intelligent' scientist claims - Times Online Dr Watson is no stranger to controversy. He has been reported in the past saying that a woman should have the right to abort her unborn child if tests could determine it would be homosexual. In addition, he has suggested a link between skin colour and sex drive, proposing a theory that black people have higher libidos. He also claimed that beauty could be genetically manufactured, saying: “People say it would be terrible if we made all girls pretty. I think it would be great.” Last edited by Deku Trii; 10-17-2007 at 09:21 PM. Reason: Didn't realize there were 3 pages to that article. Threw in some more quotes.

10-17-2007, 10:09 PM	#6
MC Mushi Mo Look Into My Eyes, You Blood-Thirsty Thing... Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: That one place. Gender: Posts: 6,655 Thanks: 124 Thanked 312 Times in 248 Posts Points: 14,228.23 Bank: 72,366.26 Total Points: 86,594.49 Donate	Oh the Boondocks referrences I could make right now. __________________ RUN, SERAS, RUN!!

10-18-2007, 09:13 AM	#15
Booyakasha Mod of War Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Wisconsinland Gender: Posts: 6,996 Thanks: 84 Thanked 453 Times in 262 Posts Points: 14,261.38 Bank: 38,891.40 Total Points: 53,152.78 Donate	As a student-scientist, I should like to see what justification he offers for his conclusions before I call him a racist. It's not like this is just some mentalist in a white sheet; this is a Nobel Prize-winning scientist, for heaven's sake. __________________ Boo--the only dude bad enough to rescue the president Last edited by Booyakasha; 10-18-2007 at 09:22 AM.

10-18-2007, 11:52 AM	#19
Booyakasha Mod of War Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Wisconsinland Gender: Posts: 6,996 Thanks: 84 Thanked 453 Times in 262 Posts Points: 14,261.38 Bank: 38,891.40 Total Points: 53,152.78 Donate	Speculation is the basis of hypothetical thinking. What I'm interested in seeing is the methodology by which he arrived at his conclusion. Did he just think to himself, "man oh man, black guys are dumb", or did he actually go at it from a scientific point of view--aka, starting with a hypothesis, doing research, conducting or observing an experiment, analyzing the data statistically, and delivering an objective interpretation? If the first, it's racist. If the second, it's probably flawed methodology. __________________ Boo--the only dude bad enough to rescue the president

10-17-2007, 09:34 PM	#2
Colin Greenwood Her Hitler hairdo is making me feel ill Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: I'm either in the club, baby, or I'm not. Gender: Posts: 12,099 Thanks: 615 Thanked 1,024 Times in 702 Posts Blog Entries: 13 Points: 7,974.24 Bank: 25,023.07 Total Points: 32,997.31 Donate	Wow. Just... wow.

10-17-2007, 09:47 PM	#3
Wyborn Zelda Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: All over the place Gender: Posts: 12,326 Thanks: 86 Thanked 439 Times in 269 Posts Points: 19,354.94 Bank: 82,155.51 Total Points: 101,510.45 Donate	I'm not sure what to say here. I'm certainly curious, but good God.

10-17-2007, 09:54 PM	#4
Swordmaster Link Super Bodyguard & King of the Arcade Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Wherever you want me to be Gender: Posts: 30,881 Thanks: 234 Thanked 769 Times in 544 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 956.76 Bank: 2,078,289.05 Total Points: 2,079,245.81 Donate	At this rate, I might as well go to Ron Burgundy for my scientific edification. "You're just a woman with a small brain, a brain a third the size of ours. It's science."

10-17-2007, 10:02 PM	#5
Super Murdero Bros. I'm-a gonna kill you! Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Either UN's bed or Andre's bed. Gender: Posts: 13,507 Thanks: 908 Thanked 1,537 Times in 739 Posts Points: 12.90 Bank: 110,981.15 Total Points: 110,994.05 Donate	Old news (James Watson).

10-17-2007, 10:19 PM	#7
Dr. Horrible PP&R Mod Current Events Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: More important than where is when.... Gender: Posts: 6,725 Thanks: 126 Thanked 449 Times in 299 Posts Points: 2,756.05 Bank: 3,899,087.98 Total Points: 3,901,844.03 Donate	“There is no firm reason to anticipate that the intellectual capacities of peoples geographically separated in their evolution should prove to have evolved identically. Our wanting to reserve equal powers of reason as some universal heritage of humanity will not be enough to make it so.” See, this is even an interesting hypothesis, but until he bases it on anything other than "employers tell me black employees suck" he's just another racist and the fact that he's a brilliant scientist is irrelevant in the matter.

10-17-2007, 10:24 PM	#8
Wyborn Zelda Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: All over the place Gender: Posts: 12,326 Thanks: 86 Thanked 439 Times in 269 Posts Points: 19,354.94 Bank: 82,155.51 Total Points: 101,510.45 Donate	That's just the thing, though, isn't it? This isn't something you expect to come out a Nobel Prize winner. That is a class of person you expect to typically make a modicum of sense. Part of me wants to read his reasoning just to see if I'm smart enough to shred it.

10-17-2007, 10:28 PM	#9
DJ Ryan http://www.misterpoll.com/polls/359805 Vote for your favorite songs Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Shhhh, it's a secret right now Gender: Posts: 13,424 Thanks: 1,068 Thanked 716 Times in 415 Posts Points: 38,875.34 Bank: 944,041.16 Total Points: 982,916.50 Donate	Interesting but ridiculous. We've been in the Americas for hundreds of years, only reason you could possibly claim that is because we weren't able to read for centuries. To say that ALL blacks are dumber than whites is a revert back to the 60s and ****. And to link intellegence to skin color is ludicrous.

10-17-2007, 11:45 PM	#10
Crazyswordsman RPG Mod Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Booyaville (yeah!) Gender: Posts: 8,353 Thanks: 585 Thanked 434 Times in 285 Posts Points: 152,153.39 Bank: 54,455.27 Total Points: 206,608.66 Donate	And the intelligence level of trailer trash in the states of Alabama and Mississippi (and probably every other state, but Mississippi and Alabama are the two that come to mind, no offense to people from those two states) further disproves this man's theory. -CSM

10-18-2007, 02:31 AM	#11
Cravdraa VGF RPG Mod Join Date: May 2001 Location: It's round on the sides and high in the middle Gender: Posts: 5,888 Thanks: 54 Thanked 207 Times in 139 Posts Points: 28,168.48 Bank: 1,403,771.19 Total Points: 1,431,939.68 Donate	Hmm... make a racist joke in poor taste or just call him an ignorant idiot. I'll go with number 2. It's sad that racism can run this deep.

10-18-2007, 07:48 AM	#13
Dr. Horrible PP&R Mod Current Events Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: More important than where is when.... Gender: Posts: 6,725 Thanks: 126 Thanked 449 Times in 299 Posts Points: 2,756.05 Bank: 3,899,087.98 Total Points: 3,901,844.03 Donate	Well, the dude is around 80. His generation didn't grow up being told racism was bad. Edit:Ace got me by a few seconds.

10-18-2007, 08:32 AM	#14
Crazyswordsman RPG Mod Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Booyaville (yeah!) Gender: Posts: 8,353 Thanks: 585 Thanked 434 Times in 285 Posts Points: 152,153.39 Bank: 54,455.27 Total Points: 206,608.66 Donate	What's interesting is a few years ago there was a scientist saying that the skin color gene accounts for, like a hundreth of a percent of the DNA. -CSM

10-18-2007, 11:43 AM	#18
*Ace Mercury* Marshmallow Knight ☆ Supermod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Southern Ontario Gender: Posts: 19,108 Thanks: 370 Thanked 1,575 Times in 814 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 109,699.23 Bank: 22,995,259.87 Total Points: 23,104,959.10 Donate	Well, he's probably recalling some papers published back in the fifties about how black people are unsmart. He is probably wondering where all the personal hovercraft are.

10-18-2007, 12:06 PM	#20
Dr. Horrible PP&R Mod Current Events Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: More important than where is when.... Gender: Posts: 6,725 Thanks: 126 Thanked 449 Times in 299 Posts Points: 2,756.05 Bank: 3,899,087.98 Total Points: 3,901,844.03 Donate	I'm not knocking speculation, just his decision to go on record claiming blacks have evolved to be cognitively disadvantaged without properly researching the matter, which he doesn't seem to have done. Granted, I can't imagine he'd have an easy time finding funding for such research.