Plot-Hole Fillers (MAJOR SPOILERS)

The Hiphopopotamus · 03-27-2008, 09:45 AM

WARNING: THIS TOPIC CONTAINS MAJOR SPOILERS

First off, who is Taboo and what is subspace? Frankly I have no idea. I think it's possible that Subspace might be some sort of universe that lies parallel to what we'll for now refer to as the "Smashworld". Taboo, then, would be some sort of god that resides over subspace, opposite Master Hand in Smashworld. Subspace is a completely dark void, which would explain why he would want to bring pieces of Smashworld into Subspace; pure jealousy.

Another theory is that Subspace is some sort of mystical realm where trophies are sent for punishment when they break the rules of the Smashworld, kind of like the realm that Ganondorf is banished to in Ocarina of Time. This would explain why Taboo's name is what it is. It doesn't, however, explain why Master Hand is there, nor how Taboo could take control of him from within the realm.

Well, moving on to more concrete theories ...

Obviously sometime before the game begins, Taboo somehow manages to take control of Master Hand. I believe that once had control, he used Master Hand to approach the so called "villains" of the Smash World; namely Ganondorf and Bowser. Ganondorf agreed to serve the hand simply because of his power-hungry personality; being in service of a god is pretty much the most powerful stature one can get in the Smashworld. Bowser agreed for similar greedy reasons.

Now it's possible that the Hand may have approached Dedede with the offer as well, but Dedede declined. As anyone who's played the Kirby games may know, Dedede likes to act like a tough badguy, but deep down he's actually a good guy. Being approached but declining the offer of power would explain why Dedede seems to know exactly what is going on from the first time he is introduced into the game.

Another possibility is that Ganondorf is the one that approached Dedede, looking for minions to manipulate (since we all know that's how Ganny works). This theory wouldn't explain why Dedede seems to know quite as much as he does, though.

I'm quite positive that Ganondorf is the one that approached Wario though. When Wario sees Master Hand defeated towards the end of the game, he doesn't seem to care much (he looks bored and starts picking his nose). This implies that Master Hand was not the one that was offering Wario whatever it is he was offered; because the Wario we know would have panicked in the realization that he's not going to be getting whatever treasure he was promised. Therefore it's much more likely that Ganondorf approached him looking for lackeys and promised him a large amount of treasure or money for each trophy that he brings him.

And why does the Subspace Emissary need trophies? There's a two-fold reason for this. First of all, each trophy that they have means one less hero that is going to fight against them, thus ensuring Taboo's victory. The second reason is because thanks to the "Shadow Bugs" ability to copy the attributes of statues, it allows the SSE to gain even more powerful allies than the majority of the monsters we see throughout the game.

Now, how does the Halberd and Mr. Game & Watch fit into this? Well I think it's pretty obvious that the SSE had stolen the Halberd from Meta Knight sometime before the game begins. How? I'm not really sure to tell you the truth. As for why it's being driven by a dozen Mr. G&Ws, I think the reason is simply because G&W was captured and cloned by the SSE for the sole reason that Shadow Bugs could be extracted from him.

Now, just who is the Ancient Minister and how does he fit into this mess? Personally I think the big difference between the AM and the other ROBs is that, while all of the ROBs seem to show a spark of sentinence, the Ancient Minister is the most sentinent of them all. This is best shown in the scene where Ganondorf order the ROBs to blow up their floating island home; the Ancient Minister seems to be the only one of the robots that really knows what is going to happen if they follow his orders, and beyond that, he is the only robot which Ganondorf is not capable of simply taking control of with his remote.

Throughout the game, I think deep down the Ancient Minister really wants the heroes to stop the SSE somehow. This is why his very first target is the Smash Stadium, where you KNOW the heroes are going to take notice, as opposed to taking out some desolate places in the middle of nowhere out first to avoid detection until it's too late.

Now comes some really big questions: What is with Dedede and his reviving talismans? Why does he act like a badguy at the beginning, capturing and stealing trophies? Why does it take so long for his talismans to bring someone back to life, and why does he use those instead of just simply tapping the trophy stands like the others do?

As I pointed out earlier, Dedede somehow knows exactly what is going on. He's not actually capturing trophies because he's a bad guy (even though when you first meet him it seems this way), but rather because he was building his own army of heroes to fight the Subspace army with.

So what's with the talismans with the delay revival effect? Well, keep in mind that while Dedede is a good guy at heart, he fancies his reputation as a bully and general bad guy. That being said, he didn't actually want his miniature army of heroes to know that he was involved in any way. I believe his plan was to plant the talismans on the trophies and then allow the trophies to be captured and brought into subspace; at which point the talismans would revive them and they would be able to take down the subspace army from within.

Unfortunately for Dedede, it doesn't actually turn out that way. He's knocked out cold before he even has a chance to leave his trap, and his trophy is sucked into Subspace with the others. When Luigi and Ness revive him he figures that since he is involved this far he might as well go all the way.

Alternatively, Dedede may have originally been planning on including his own trophy in the trap. When Dedede is placing the talismans on the others, he is originally wearing one himself, but then seems saddened when he realizes he doesn't have enough for the others and sarafices his own for whichever princess it is that he captured. Of course it's also possible that Dedede was only wearing one in anticipation of a time when he might have to actually fight a hero and be defeated, as opposed to sacraficing himself for the trap.

So what about Petey, Porky, and Ridley? How did they get involved?

Well Petey is most likely working under Bowser's orders. I think that much is obvious.

I think Porky was involved with the SSE at all. The SSE asked him to destroy Ness and Lucas and considering those children like to mess with his plans he exepted, the SSE even restored him to his Earthbound kid form and released him from the super safe machine or whatever they called it at the end of Mother 3.

As for Ridley, he most likely just got involved for the opportunity to take down Samus. He seems to be rather pissed at her specifically when they first meet, and on top of that he was waiting in the place where Samus' suit was being held, most likely because he knew she would show up there. Notice also that when they fight him later as Meta Ridley, Samus is one of the members of the current party.

So ... um ... I think that covers just about everything that isn't already blatantly obvious.

Oh and as for Sonic he was added late in development <_< >_>.

P.S. Yes Ridley is that much of a persistent basterd.

X-3 · 03-27-2008, 09:54 AM

The Ancient Minister is, apparently, the "previous ruler of the world". He ruled from the floating island. After several R.O.Bs were held hostage by Tabuu, he was forced to work for evil.

Chunky Kong12345 · 03-27-2008, 10:21 AM

Tabuu*

DJ Ryan · 03-27-2008, 11:17 AM

Pretty damned good speed, I'll throw in what I believe later.

The Hiphopopotamus · 03-27-2008, 11:31 AM

Thanks Andre I've been working on this since I saw the SSE on youtube.

Metal Man · 03-27-2008, 02:52 PM

Considering the Pig King statue mows down SSE enemies in its path, and walls, and... yeah, everything..

I get the idea Porky (really Pokey, stupid localization people) was in it just to get Ness and Lucas, and if he was told anything by the SSE/MH/Etc. it'd have only been their location. Especially since none of his soldiers appear as explicit SSE minions. (Notice that the only enemies from games would either be Ganondorf or Bowser's soldiers.)

It's pretty nifty how it turned out, anyway. A lot of the concepts in SSE mirror out what we at SSQ originally had. (Master Hand in a high position, Bowser and Ganondorf working together for an unseen higher evil, a stadium being under attack...)

Of course, it's hard to put a story together WITHOUT that basic pattern when you're talking "SSB + Story"

The Hiphopopotamus · 03-29-2008, 08:38 AM

I noticed that to MM.

***Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds*** · 03-29-2008, 08:44 AM

YOU SLEPT WITH ZARTAN?!

You broke my heart.

The Hiphopopotamus · 03-29-2008, 11:46 AM

**S1x** · 04-10-2008, 10:19 PM

Well, the explanation of SSE on the Dojo leaves less open to interpretation, but it looks like you were pretty close to what was intended.

wariovswario · 04-11-2008, 09:10 AM

I'm gonna go into a really technical explanation of why Snake is in this world as well as Sonic. Let's look back at Mario Tennis for the GBA. You were a human boy on Earth playing tennis until you get to the Mario championship or whatever it's called and you fly on an airplane to get up to the Mushroom Kingdom world which is for some reason in the sky of Earth. I'm gonna guess that Snake and Sonic took this airplane to the other world. This also helps explain why the heck Luigi was everywhere in our world on Mario's Missing. This is probably the most rediculous explanation I could come up with, but at least it makes sense.

X-3 · 04-11-2008, 03:30 PM

That seems logical. One could also think Snake was sent to the world to investigate/stop what was happening, and Sonic came in on...the Tornado? Eh.

The Hiphopopotamus · 04-12-2008, 06:52 AM

You already saw my thoughts on Sonic.

**Kargath** · 04-12-2008, 08:09 AM

Master Hand is considered the embodiment of the spirit of creation, and Crazy Hand is the embodiment of destruction - all according to the Dojo.

wariovswario · 04-18-2008, 09:07 PM

^They contradict eachother, yet they are team mates.

Dr. Furball · 04-18-2008, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wariovswario

I'm gonna go into a really technical explanation of why Snake is in this world as well as Sonic. Let's look back at Mario Tennis for the GBA. You were a human boy on Earth playing tennis until you get to the Mario championship or whatever it's called and you fly on an airplane to get up to the Mushroom Kingdom world which is for some reason in the sky of Earth. I'm gonna guess that Snake and Sonic took this airplane to the other world. This also helps explain why the heck Luigi was everywhere in our world on Mario's Missing. This is probably the most rediculous explanation I could come up with, but at least it makes sense.

Or they just could be fighting trophies living in the Smash World that come to life, like everyone else.

wariovswario · 04-19-2008, 10:06 AM

^You're very close! Keep trying!

The Hiphopopotamus · 04-19-2008, 05:31 PM

Or the trophy thing is croc and this is canon for everything.

03-27-2008, 09:45 AM	#1
The Hiphopopotamus Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The distant future, the year 2000, the distant future, the year 2000 Gender: Posts: 1,847 Thanks: 471 Thanked 126 Times in 104 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 9,316.96 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 9,316.96 Donate	Plot-Hole Fillers (MAJOR SPOILERS) WARNING: THIS TOPIC CONTAINS MAJOR SPOILERS First off, who is Taboo and what is subspace? Frankly I have no idea. I think it's possible that Subspace might be some sort of universe that lies parallel to what we'll for now refer to as the "Smashworld". Taboo, then, would be some sort of god that resides over subspace, opposite Master Hand in Smashworld. Subspace is a completely dark void, which would explain why he would want to bring pieces of Smashworld into Subspace; pure jealousy. Another theory is that Subspace is some sort of mystical realm where trophies are sent for punishment when they break the rules of the Smashworld, kind of like the realm that Ganondorf is banished to in Ocarina of Time. This would explain why Taboo's name is what it is. It doesn't, however, explain why Master Hand is there, nor how Taboo could take control of him from within the realm. Well, moving on to more concrete theories ... Obviously sometime before the game begins, Taboo somehow manages to take control of Master Hand. I believe that once had control, he used Master Hand to approach the so called "villains" of the Smash World; namely Ganondorf and Bowser. Ganondorf agreed to serve the hand simply because of his power-hungry personality; being in service of a god is pretty much the most powerful stature one can get in the Smashworld. Bowser agreed for similar greedy reasons. Now it's possible that the Hand may have approached Dedede with the offer as well, but Dedede declined. As anyone who's played the Kirby games may know, Dedede likes to act like a tough badguy, but deep down he's actually a good guy. Being approached but declining the offer of power would explain why Dedede seems to know exactly what is going on from the first time he is introduced into the game. Another possibility is that Ganondorf is the one that approached Dedede, looking for minions to manipulate (since we all know that's how Ganny works). This theory wouldn't explain why Dedede seems to know quite as much as he does, though. I'm quite positive that Ganondorf is the one that approached Wario though. When Wario sees Master Hand defeated towards the end of the game, he doesn't seem to care much (he looks bored and starts picking his nose). This implies that Master Hand was not the one that was offering Wario whatever it is he was offered; because the Wario we know would have panicked in the realization that he's not going to be getting whatever treasure he was promised. Therefore it's much more likely that Ganondorf approached him looking for lackeys and promised him a large amount of treasure or money for each trophy that he brings him. And why does the Subspace Emissary need trophies? There's a two-fold reason for this. First of all, each trophy that they have means one less hero that is going to fight against them, thus ensuring Taboo's victory. The second reason is because thanks to the "Shadow Bugs" ability to copy the attributes of statues, it allows the SSE to gain even more powerful allies than the majority of the monsters we see throughout the game. Now, how does the Halberd and Mr. Game & Watch fit into this? Well I think it's pretty obvious that the SSE had stolen the Halberd from Meta Knight sometime before the game begins. How? I'm not really sure to tell you the truth. As for why it's being driven by a dozen Mr. G&Ws, I think the reason is simply because G&W was captured and cloned by the SSE for the sole reason that Shadow Bugs could be extracted from him. Now, just who is the Ancient Minister and how does he fit into this mess? Personally I think the big difference between the AM and the other ROBs is that, while all of the ROBs seem to show a spark of sentinence, the Ancient Minister is the most sentinent of them all. This is best shown in the scene where Ganondorf order the ROBs to blow up their floating island home; the Ancient Minister seems to be the only one of the robots that really knows what is going to happen if they follow his orders, and beyond that, he is the only robot which Ganondorf is not capable of simply taking control of with his remote. Throughout the game, I think deep down the Ancient Minister really wants the heroes to stop the SSE somehow. This is why his very first target is the Smash Stadium, where you KNOW the heroes are going to take notice, as opposed to taking out some desolate places in the middle of nowhere out first to avoid detection until it's too late. Now comes some really big questions: What is with Dedede and his reviving talismans? Why does he act like a badguy at the beginning, capturing and stealing trophies? Why does it take so long for his talismans to bring someone back to life, and why does he use those instead of just simply tapping the trophy stands like the others do? As I pointed out earlier, Dedede somehow knows exactly what is going on. He's not actually capturing trophies because he's a bad guy (even though when you first meet him it seems this way), but rather because he was building his own army of heroes to fight the Subspace army with. So what's with the talismans with the delay revival effect? Well, keep in mind that while Dedede is a good guy at heart, he fancies his reputation as a bully and general bad guy. That being said, he didn't actually want his miniature army of heroes to know that he was involved in any way. I believe his plan was to plant the talismans on the trophies and then allow the trophies to be captured and brought into subspace; at which point the talismans would revive them and they would be able to take down the subspace army from within. Unfortunately for Dedede, it doesn't actually turn out that way. He's knocked out cold before he even has a chance to leave his trap, and his trophy is sucked into Subspace with the others. When Luigi and Ness revive him he figures that since he is involved this far he might as well go all the way. Alternatively, Dedede may have originally been planning on including his own trophy in the trap. When Dedede is placing the talismans on the others, he is originally wearing one himself, but then seems saddened when he realizes he doesn't have enough for the others and sarafices his own for whichever princess it is that he captured. Of course it's also possible that Dedede was only wearing one in anticipation of a time when he might have to actually fight a hero and be defeated, as opposed to sacraficing himself for the trap. So what about Petey, Porky, and Ridley? How did they get involved? Well Petey is most likely working under Bowser's orders. I think that much is obvious. I think Porky was involved with the SSE at all. The SSE asked him to destroy Ness and Lucas and considering those children like to mess with his plans he exepted, the SSE even restored him to his Earthbound kid form and released him from the super safe machine or whatever they called it at the end of Mother 3. As for Ridley, he most likely just got involved for the opportunity to take down Samus. He seems to be rather pissed at her specifically when they first meet, and on top of that he was waiting in the place where Samus' suit was being held, most likely because he knew she would show up there. Notice also that when they fight him later as Meta Ridley, Samus is one of the members of the current party. So ... um ... I think that covers just about everything that isn't already blatantly obvious. Oh and as for Sonic he was added late in development <_< >_>. P.S. Yes Ridley is that much of a persistent basterd. Last edited by speed; 03-27-2008 at 11:33 AM.

03-29-2008, 11:46 AM	#9
The Hiphopopotamus Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The distant future, the year 2000, the distant future, the year 2000 Gender: Posts: 1,847 Thanks: 471 Thanked 126 Times in 104 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 9,316.96 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 9,316.96 Donate	WTF

04-11-2008, 09:10 AM	#11
wariovswario Godly Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Gender: Posts: 4,347 Thanks: 91 Thanked 77 Times in 55 Posts Blog Entries: 2 Points: 7,584.57 Bank: 715,827.97 Total Points: 723,412.54 Donate	I'm gonna go into a really technical explanation of why Snake is in this world as well as Sonic. Let's look back at Mario Tennis for the GBA. You were a human boy on Earth playing tennis until you get to the Mario championship or whatever it's called and you fly on an airplane to get up to the Mushroom Kingdom world which is for some reason in the sky of Earth. I'm gonna guess that Snake and Sonic took this airplane to the other world. This also helps explain why the heck Luigi was everywhere in our world on Mario's Missing. This is probably the most rediculous explanation I could come up with, but at least it makes sense. __________________ Click here to level up my card!

04-18-2008, 09:07 PM	#15
wariovswario Godly Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Gender: Posts: 4,347 Thanks: 91 Thanked 77 Times in 55 Posts Blog Entries: 2 Points: 7,584.57 Bank: 715,827.97 Total Points: 723,412.54 Donate	^They contradict eachother, yet they are team mates. __________________ Click here to level up my card!

04-19-2008, 10:06 AM	#17
wariovswario Godly Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Gender: Posts: 4,347 Thanks: 91 Thanked 77 Times in 55 Posts Blog Entries: 2 Points: 7,584.57 Bank: 715,827.97 Total Points: 723,412.54 Donate	^You're very close! Keep trying! __________________ Click here to level up my card!

03-27-2008, 09:54 AM	#2
X-3 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Brigade HQ Gender: Posts: 9,601 Thanks: 337 Thanked 387 Times in 279 Posts Blog Entries: 5 Points: 21,929.04 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 21,929.04 Donate	The Ancient Minister is, apparently, the "previous ruler of the world". He ruled from the floating island. After several R.O.Bs were held hostage by Tabuu, he was forced to work for evil.

03-27-2008, 10:21 AM	#3
Chunky Kong12345 WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK I AM!? Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: ogmftwbqq Gender: Posts: 17,132 Thanks: 64 Thanked 338 Times in 241 Posts Points: 4,201.92 Bank: 178,076.98 Total Points: 182,278.90 Donate	Tabuu*

03-27-2008, 11:17 AM	#4
DJ Ryan http://www.misterpoll.com/polls/359805 Vote for your favorite songs Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Birmingham, AL Gender: Posts: 13,413 Thanks: 1,060 Thanked 716 Times in 415 Posts Points: 38,907.10 Bank: 907,382.89 Total Points: 946,289.99 Donate	Pretty damned good speed, I'll throw in what I believe later.

03-27-2008, 11:31 AM	#5
The Hiphopopotamus Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The distant future, the year 2000, the distant future, the year 2000 Gender: Posts: 1,847 Thanks: 471 Thanked 126 Times in 104 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 9,316.96 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 9,316.96 Donate	Thanks Andre I've been working on this since I saw the SSE on youtube.

03-27-2008, 02:52 PM	#6
Metal Man Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Gender: Posts: 6,914 Thanks: 76 Thanked 226 Times in 157 Posts Points: 14,309.15 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 14,309.15 Donate	Considering the Pig King statue mows down SSE enemies in its path, and walls, and... yeah, everything.. I get the idea Porky (really Pokey, stupid localization people) was in it just to get Ness and Lucas, and if he was told anything by the SSE/MH/Etc. it'd have only been their location. Especially since none of his soldiers appear as explicit SSE minions. (Notice that the only enemies from games would either be Ganondorf or Bowser's soldiers.) It's pretty nifty how it turned out, anyway. A lot of the concepts in SSE mirror out what we at SSQ originally had. (Master Hand in a high position, Bowser and Ganondorf working together for an unseen higher evil, a stadium being under attack...) Of course, it's hard to put a story together WITHOUT that basic pattern when you're talking "SSB + Story"

03-29-2008, 08:38 AM	#7
The Hiphopopotamus Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The distant future, the year 2000, the distant future, the year 2000 Gender: Posts: 1,847 Thanks: 471 Thanked 126 Times in 104 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 9,316.96 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 9,316.96 Donate	I noticed that to MM.

03-29-2008, 08:44 AM	#8
*Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds* Admin "mine.. not yours. NO. MINE." Epic Ladynerd Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Forteresse de Valois Gender: Posts: 24,107 Thanks: 395 Thanked 592 Times in 405 Posts Points: 28,379.79 Bank: 232,584.50 Total Points: 260,964.30 Donate	YOU SLEPT WITH ZARTAN?! You broke my heart.

04-10-2008, 10:19 PM	#10
S1x VGF RPG Mod Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Either over there or right here Gender: Posts: 4,972 Thanks: 14 Thanked 232 Times in 75 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 106,287.58 Bank: 52,864.12 Total Points: 159,151.70 Donate	Well, the explanation of SSE on the Dojo leaves less open to interpretation, but it looks like you were pretty close to what was intended.

04-11-2008, 03:30 PM	#12
X-3 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Brigade HQ Gender: Posts: 9,601 Thanks: 337 Thanked 387 Times in 279 Posts Blog Entries: 5 Points: 21,929.04 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 21,929.04 Donate	That seems logical. One could also think Snake was sent to the world to investigate/stop what was happening, and Sonic came in on...the Tornado? Eh.

04-12-2008, 06:52 AM	#13
The Hiphopopotamus Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The distant future, the year 2000, the distant future, the year 2000 Gender: Posts: 1,847 Thanks: 471 Thanked 126 Times in 104 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 9,316.96 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 9,316.96 Donate	You already saw my thoughts on Sonic.

04-12-2008, 08:09 AM	#14
Kargath THE QUESTIONATOR (Polls Mod) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: kargath64.deviantart.com Gender: Posts: 4,934 Thanks: 522 Thanked 222 Times in 159 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 3,700.47 Bank: 387,284.72 Total Points: 390,985.19 Donate	Master Hand is considered the embodiment of the spirit of creation, and Crazy Hand is the embodiment of destruction - all according to the Dojo.

04-19-2008, 05:31 PM	#18
The Hiphopopotamus Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The distant future, the year 2000, the distant future, the year 2000 Gender: Posts: 1,847 Thanks: 471 Thanked 126 Times in 104 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 9,316.96 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 9,316.96 Donate	Or the trophy thing is croc and this is canon for everything.