10 years since the original American release - Page 2

[sage] · 04-30-2009, 06:26 AM

SSB and SSBM are tied for my favorite multiplayer video game of all time. I can't see anything ever breaking that. I had nearly 10 years out of enjoyment between those two games. Nothing else even comes close.

Brawl hasn't really held up to their level, but its still a fun game.

DarkZero · 04-30-2009, 01:36 PM

IMO, neither Melee nor Brawl have been able to recreate the comic feel of the original SSB.

That's not to say that they aren't great games, but they just don't bring back memories for me.

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! · 04-30-2009, 03:25 PM

I do agree that the feel is different. In a sense, I kinda miss the wackyness.

***CaptHayfever*** · 04-30-2009, 04:00 PM

Brawl brought back a lot of the wackyness. Tourney tards complained. Brawl got less play.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! · 04-30-2009, 04:03 PM

It didn't bring back any wackyness, it just kept the straight face formula and took away the hardcore gameplay, stealing the best of both worlds.

Yeah, hardcore might not be the word we'd all agree on when refering to Melee, but it is IMO. To me, the first was wacky fun, the second was a real fighting game, and the thrid...had on-line play.

We need a wacky SSB with hardcore gameplay and on-line.

Black Belt Tazy · 04-30-2009, 04:12 PM

Brawl is still the best, because it doesn't have glitches to be exploited, plus it has more than any game before it.

I hope SSB continues down this road, mostly because when SSB became a "Hardcore" game, everyone got all pissy about it.

Still, all three games are super amazing. ALL OF THEM.

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! · 04-30-2009, 04:28 PM

I agree, they are all amazing.

But really, RANDOM TRIPPING?! SSBB is obviously suited to helping newbies, what with its random tripping, every character easily grabbing from behind onto a ledge, and worst of all, slower gameplay. Mmmmm.

But I want to see someone defend the random tripping. Please. And while doing so, imagine playing Street Fighter 4 and watching Ryu just stop for a second and sneeze and get blasted by a special.

ZeldaGirl · 04-30-2009, 04:41 PM

^I would say random tripping actually evens out, as it can make the game harder. You act as if it benefits newbies - I'd say that, if you are new, it's a huge hindrance in that you don't know other techniques to make up for the fact that you trip randomly.

I like tripping. I think it's actually quite hilarious. Sadistic, absolutely. But hilarious nonetheless.

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! · 04-30-2009, 04:42 PM

But it eliminates "skill" from the equation, which is the issue.

ZeldaGirl · 04-30-2009, 04:50 PM

How so? I feel like it makes it more challenging, to overcome unforeseen obstacles.

Chunky Kong12345 · 04-30-2009, 05:15 PM

when has ssb been about skill irhp

DarkZero · 04-30-2009, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tazy Ten

it doesn't have glitches to be exploited

Hey, you should check out this cool website, it's called YouTube!

Metal Man · 04-30-2009, 05:58 PM

Screw hardcore, my issue with Brawl was
1. Overcomplex gameplay modes eat up space and have little to no replay.
2. Sakurai decided to basically crib huge portions of KSS. In truth, Subspace Emissary should have been the newest Kirby game, not SSB.
3. Favorite characters from Melee were made useless. The one character I can use I do so with such deadliness none of my friends will play me, while I'm not quite enough good to defeat all the tourney people, so I have no reason to play online.
4. I played the prototype during a convention. It looked to be much better than it is now, with them if anything improving useless characters and nerfing stupidly powerful ones. They then wound up nerfing everybody, so the resulting game plays with Sonic, for example, just suck.
5. There's just some sort of cohesion missing. It feels... soulless. There's a lack of integration; some characters seem to have been merely ported from Melee and nerfed. Style changes on people like Ganondorf and elimination of niche/hilarity-based things like Mewtwo/Pichu make it dull.
6. Other things I can't think of, for I just can't seem to bring myself to pick it up and play it much anymore...

Black Belt Tazy · 04-30-2009, 06:10 PM

Tripping is most certainly not as bad as you make it out to be. I've tripped on more than one occasion (including during Lucario's Final Smash), and It didn't stop me from getting away from attacks.

Brawl is also no slower than Melee, and both are a little faster then the 64 version.

Also, when are you ever gonna grab from behind in a serious match anyway? Unless you're Marth.

Besides the only times you have a high chance of tripping are on Ice and when Tingle activates a banana force thing on the field.

^ I mean Wavedash-Exploitable.

Valigarmander · 04-30-2009, 06:11 PM

Everybody has different opinions about the SSB games.

To be honest, as fun as Melee was, it just seemed... unfinished to me.

Glückspilz · 04-30-2009, 07:29 PM

Val, that's because it was. :P

I think the SSB games keep getting better, and I still absolutely adore SSB64. It's a fantastic series.

Unfortunately, some people don't realize that it's actually intended to be fun.

***CaptHayfever*** · 05-01-2009, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeldaGirl

How so? I feel like it makes it more challenging, to overcome unforeseen obstacles.

Bingo. That's the point of the series, to be unpredictable, forcing the player to either adapt or make backup plans.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

ZeldaGirl · 05-01-2009, 01:12 AM

^Ah, glad I'm not the only one who thinks that way. I wouldn't say it makes anything easier - since it's random, there's an equal chance of it benefiting either or all players during any given match, so there are no advantages per se to you tripping when your opponent does not. Due to probability, it'll even out, so, yeah, I think the fact that it's unexpected only serves to make it more 'challenging'.

I know IRHP didn't say anything, I'm just preempting my response for his clarification, just in case.

Swordmaster Link · 05-01-2009, 11:51 AM

Yeah, the SSB games, IMO, were never really about "skill" per se...if you want to worry about that go play SF or KoF or Soul Calibur or any of the other more technical fighting series. What makes the SSB series so great is the dynamic gameplay and unpredictability that comes along with the items and what-not.

I'll admit, as I honed my SSB64 skills I had a brief "tourney tard" stint in which I demanded no items and whatnot, but after a while I realized that in doing so I was taking away 80% of what makes the game unique.

Besides, ask any real fighting game afficianado if SSB is srs bznss and they'll laugh at you.

EDIT: Wait. It just registered in my head that I was in like, 5th grade when SSB came out. I remember seeing the commercial for the first time. I'm old.

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! · 05-01-2009, 03:01 PM

ZG, Tripping is a random consequence for no reason. One fall could cost you the game, allowing a turn-around. Skill should be based on ability. Obviously your argument revolves around your opinion that dealing with Tripping makes the game more challenging, which is fine, it being your opinion and all. I can't tell you the you are wrong; infact, you are right in a sense. But random consequences shouldn't be involved in a game of skill. I would never play Chess if all of a sudden, a Referee stole one of my Pawns for no reason.

Ever since SSBM, Chunky.

Metal Man, your list is pretty accurate and I agree with almost all of it. Shiek was ruined by being dumbed down. And it certainly has a kind of soulless feel.

Tazy, I feel the difference in gameplay speed. Characters fall so much slower, and a lot of downward attacks are now on a fixed trajectory, eliminating targeting. Shiek's downward kick is absolutely ruined.

Haha, ZG, prep your argument for Tripping all you want, because even you would need to admit it needs to be OPTIONAL. >=P

I despise the tripping and backward-grabbing all characters have. I mean, come on, if you aren't facing the ledge you shouldn't get back up!

^ Taking away whatever options you decide on is fine, which is why they're optional. You weren't taking anything away, you were playing by preference.

Know what I notice? Double-standards. Everyone hates people who turn everything off and play Final Destination one-on-one. But what about people who keep everything on AND turn them up to appear all the time, never playing less than a four player free-for-all, at the most convoluted levels available? That's the exact opposite in extremes but it's fine because, for some reason it is deemed fun, right?

04-30-2009, 06:11 PM	#35
Valigarmander Better than you. Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The land of rain and trees (Oregon) Gender: Posts: 22,048 Thanks: 1,350 Thanked 3,714 Times in 1,671 Posts Points: 5,665.77 Bank: 26,040,876.19 Total Points: 26,046,541.96 Donate	Everybody has different opinions about the SSB games. To be honest, as fun as Melee was, it just seemed... unfinished to me. __________________ This is a signature.

05-01-2009, 11:51 AM	#39
Swordmaster Link Super Bodyguard & King of the Arcade Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Wherever you want me to be Gender: Posts: 32,062 Thanks: 251 Thanked 946 Times in 636 Posts Blog Entries: 2 Points: 4,684.29 Bank: 49,442,418.96 Total Points: 49,447,103.25 Donate	Yeah, the SSB games, IMO, were never really about "skill" per se...if you want to worry about that go play SF or KoF or Soul Calibur or any of the other more technical fighting series. What makes the SSB series so great is the dynamic gameplay and unpredictability that comes along with the items and what-not. I'll admit, as I honed my SSB64 skills I had a brief "tourney tard" stint in which I demanded no items and whatnot, but after a while I realized that in doing so I was taking away 80% of what makes the game unique. Besides, ask any real fighting game afficianado if SSB is srs bznss and they'll laugh at you. EDIT: Wait. It just registered in my head that I was in like, 5th grade when SSB came out. I remember seeing the commercial for the first time. I'm old. Last edited by Swordmaster Link; 05-01-2009 at 11:58 AM.

04-30-2009, 06:26 AM	#21
[sage] Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Florida Gender: Posts: 18,277 Thanks: 1 Thanked 12 Times in 9 Posts Points: 63,300.65 Bank: 17,314.13 Total Points: 80,614.78 Donate	SSB and SSBM are tied for my favorite multiplayer video game of all time. I can't see anything ever breaking that. I had nearly 10 years out of enjoyment between those two games. Nothing else even comes close. Brawl hasn't really held up to their level, but its still a fun game.

04-30-2009, 01:36 PM	#22
DarkZero Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Between a pair of shoes and a pair of headphones. Gender: Posts: 8,570 Thanks: 1,040 Thanked 596 Times in 426 Posts Blog Entries: 34 Points: 7,333.86 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 7,333.86 Donate	IMO, neither Melee nor Brawl have been able to recreate the comic feel of the original SSB. That's not to say that they aren't great games, but they just don't bring back memories for me.

04-30-2009, 03:25 PM	#23
I REALLY HATE POKEMON! Goku lives on the Sun Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: California, U.S.A Gender: Posts: 12,043 Thanks: 921 Thanked 226 Times in 197 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 34,187.90 Bank: 1,596,315.05 Total Points: 1,630,502.95 Donate	I do agree that the feel is different. In a sense, I kinda miss the wackyness.

04-30-2009, 04:00 PM	#24
*CaptHayfever* Smash SuperMod Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: (n) - the place where I am Gender: Posts: 23,047 Thanks: 790 Thanked 1,729 Times in 1,003 Posts Points: 195,050.42 Bank: 205,789.02 Total Points: 400,839.44 Donate	Brawl brought back a lot of the wackyness. Tourney tards complained. Brawl got less play. And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

04-30-2009, 04:03 PM	#25
I REALLY HATE POKEMON! Goku lives on the Sun Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: California, U.S.A Gender: Posts: 12,043 Thanks: 921 Thanked 226 Times in 197 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 34,187.90 Bank: 1,596,315.05 Total Points: 1,630,502.95 Donate	It didn't bring back any wackyness, it just kept the straight face formula and took away the hardcore gameplay, stealing the best of both worlds. Yeah, hardcore might not be the word we'd all agree on when refering to Melee, but it is IMO. To me, the first was wacky fun, the second was a real fighting game, and the thrid...had on-line play. We need a wacky SSB with hardcore gameplay and on-line.

04-30-2009, 04:12 PM	#26
Black Belt Tazy I specialize in HORN DRILL! HRARGH! Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Cianwood Gym Gender: Posts: 12,867 Thanks: 432 Thanked 993 Times in 709 Posts Blog Entries: 18 Points: 61,339.89 Bank: 5,486,434.01 Total Points: 5,547,773.90 Donate	Brawl is still the best, because it doesn't have glitches to be exploited, plus it has more than any game before it. I hope SSB continues down this road, mostly because when SSB became a "Hardcore" game, everyone got all pissy about it. Still, all three games are super amazing. ALL OF THEM.

04-30-2009, 04:28 PM	#27
I REALLY HATE POKEMON! Goku lives on the Sun Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: California, U.S.A Gender: Posts: 12,043 Thanks: 921 Thanked 226 Times in 197 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 34,187.90 Bank: 1,596,315.05 Total Points: 1,630,502.95 Donate	I agree, they are all amazing. But really, RANDOM TRIPPING?! SSBB is obviously suited to helping newbies, what with its random tripping, every character easily grabbing from behind onto a ledge, and worst of all, slower gameplay. Mmmmm. But I want to see someone defend the random tripping. Please. And while doing so, imagine playing Street Fighter 4 and watching Ryu just stop for a second and sneeze and get blasted by a special.

04-30-2009, 04:41 PM	#28
ZeldaGirl Venting SuperMod Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Why do YOU want to know...? Gender: Posts: 14,841 Thanks: 838 Thanked 1,498 Times in 906 Posts Points: 65,273.55 Bank: 89,946,578.92 Total Points: 90,011,852.47 Donate	^I would say random tripping actually evens out, as it can make the game harder. You act as if it benefits newbies - I'd say that, if you are new, it's a huge hindrance in that you don't know other techniques to make up for the fact that you trip randomly. I like tripping. I think it's actually quite hilarious. Sadistic, absolutely. But hilarious nonetheless.

04-30-2009, 04:42 PM	#29
I REALLY HATE POKEMON! Goku lives on the Sun Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: California, U.S.A Gender: Posts: 12,043 Thanks: 921 Thanked 226 Times in 197 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 34,187.90 Bank: 1,596,315.05 Total Points: 1,630,502.95 Donate	But it eliminates "skill" from the equation, which is the issue.

04-30-2009, 04:50 PM	#30
ZeldaGirl Venting SuperMod Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Why do YOU want to know...? Gender: Posts: 14,841 Thanks: 838 Thanked 1,498 Times in 906 Posts Points: 65,273.55 Bank: 89,946,578.92 Total Points: 90,011,852.47 Donate	How so? I feel like it makes it more challenging, to overcome unforeseen obstacles.

04-30-2009, 05:15 PM	#31
Chunky Kong12345 my avatar's not different at all is it Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: some kind of froody spaceship Gender: Posts: 19,787 Thanks: 105 Thanked 608 Times in 400 Posts Points: 17,237.18 Bank: 25,342,450.78 Total Points: 25,359,687.96 Donate	when has ssb been about skill irhp

04-30-2009, 05:58 PM	#33
Metal Man Cheapskate Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Shane is the king of Monopoly! Gender: Posts: 13,791 Thanks: 125 Thanked 600 Times in 421 Posts Points: 5,131.96 Bank: 140,079.05 Total Points: 145,211.01 Donate	Screw hardcore, my issue with Brawl was 1. Overcomplex gameplay modes eat up space and have little to no replay. 2. Sakurai decided to basically crib huge portions of KSS. In truth, Subspace Emissary should have been the newest Kirby game, not SSB. 3. Favorite characters from Melee were made useless. The one character I can use I do so with such deadliness none of my friends will play me, while I'm not quite enough good to defeat all the tourney people, so I have no reason to play online. 4. I played the prototype during a convention. It looked to be much better than it is now, with them if anything improving useless characters and nerfing stupidly powerful ones. They then wound up nerfing everybody, so the resulting game plays with Sonic, for example, just suck. 5. There's just some sort of cohesion missing. It feels... soulless. There's a lack of integration; some characters seem to have been merely ported from Melee and nerfed. Style changes on people like Ganondorf and elimination of niche/hilarity-based things like Mewtwo/Pichu make it dull. 6. Other things I can't think of, for I just can't seem to bring myself to pick it up and play it much anymore...

04-30-2009, 06:10 PM	#34
Black Belt Tazy I specialize in HORN DRILL! HRARGH! Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Cianwood Gym Gender: Posts: 12,867 Thanks: 432 Thanked 993 Times in 709 Posts Blog Entries: 18 Points: 61,339.89 Bank: 5,486,434.01 Total Points: 5,547,773.90 Donate	Tripping is most certainly not as bad as you make it out to be. I've tripped on more than one occasion (including during Lucario's Final Smash), and It didn't stop me from getting away from attacks. Brawl is also no slower than Melee, and both are a little faster then the 64 version. Also, when are you ever gonna grab from behind in a serious match anyway? Unless you're Marth. Besides the only times you have a high chance of tripping are on Ice and when Tingle activates a banana force thing on the field. ^ I mean Wavedash-Exploitable.

04-30-2009, 07:29 PM	#36
Glückspilz Moderator of Awesome Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Location, Location. Gender: Posts: 25,822 Thanks: 1,436 Thanked 1,134 Times in 636 Posts Points: 92,483.09 Bank: 7,825,677.61 Total Points: 7,918,160.70 Donate	Val, that's because it was. :P I think the SSB games keep getting better, and I still absolutely adore SSB64. It's a fantastic series. Unfortunately, some people don't realize that it's actually intended to be fun.

05-01-2009, 01:12 AM	#38
ZeldaGirl Venting SuperMod Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Why do YOU want to know...? Gender: Posts: 14,841 Thanks: 838 Thanked 1,498 Times in 906 Posts Points: 65,273.55 Bank: 89,946,578.92 Total Points: 90,011,852.47 Donate	^Ah, glad I'm not the only one who thinks that way. I wouldn't say it makes anything easier - since it's random, there's an equal chance of it benefiting either or all players during any given match, so there are no advantages per se to you tripping when your opponent does not. Due to probability, it'll even out, so, yeah, I think the fact that it's unexpected only serves to make it more 'challenging'. I know IRHP didn't say anything, I'm just preempting my response for his clarification, just in case.

05-01-2009, 03:01 PM	#40
I REALLY HATE POKEMON! Goku lives on the Sun Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: California, U.S.A Gender: Posts: 12,043 Thanks: 921 Thanked 226 Times in 197 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 34,187.90 Bank: 1,596,315.05 Total Points: 1,630,502.95 Donate	ZG, Tripping is a random consequence for no reason. One fall could cost you the game, allowing a turn-around. Skill should be based on ability. Obviously your argument revolves around your opinion that dealing with Tripping makes the game more challenging, which is fine, it being your opinion and all. I can't tell you the you are wrong; infact, you are right in a sense. But random consequences shouldn't be involved in a game of skill. I would never play Chess if all of a sudden, a Referee stole one of my Pawns for no reason. Ever since SSBM, Chunky. Metal Man, your list is pretty accurate and I agree with almost all of it. Shiek was ruined by being dumbed down. And it certainly has a kind of soulless feel. Tazy, I feel the difference in gameplay speed. Characters fall so much slower, and a lot of downward attacks are now on a fixed trajectory, eliminating targeting. Shiek's downward kick is absolutely ruined. Haha, ZG, prep your argument for Tripping all you want, because even you would need to admit it needs to be OPTIONAL. >=P I despise the tripping and backward-grabbing all characters have. I mean, come on, if you aren't facing the ledge you shouldn't get back up! ^ Taking away whatever options you decide on is fine, which is why they're optional. You weren't taking anything away, you were playing by preference. Know what I notice? Double-standards. Everyone hates people who turn everything off and play Final Destination one-on-one. But what about people who keep everything on AND turn them up to appear all the time, never playing less than a four player free-for-all, at the most convoluted levels available? That's the exact opposite in extremes but it's fine because, for some reason it is deemed fun, right?