Attention: Evidence that Zero Mission cannot possibly be Metroid 1's remake!

[The Missing Link]

OMFG!!!111oneoneone


"There are some who call me... Link?"
"Carpe Gaium Domesticum!" (Seize the Cucco!)
Zelda: The Grand Adventures | Triforce MUCK
ザ行方不明リンク
悪いユウモアの賢人

[Dai Grepher]

I asked that no one post until I had completed my presentation. Please respect my requests in the future.


This shows the damage limit of the bomb, and the reach of the blast. As you can see, the explosion only reached to the end of the hallway right before the Mother Brain's chambers. However, that blast reached all the way up the corridor beside Mother Brain and scorched the cavern walls of Crateria above. Somehow this blast, perhaps from multiple bombs, did not destroy the elevator, even though it is destroyed in Super Metroid.


This image shows that Tourain has been left unscathed by the blast. The dead pirates show a lack of control over the Metroids prior to the blast.


This comparison shows that in the battle that took place in Metroid 1 had Samus fire at Mother Brain through a broken Zeebetite (regenerating shield), sometimes having to use it as a platform in order to dodge counter fire.


This shows that the Bomb in Zero Mission did not destroy the area beneath the brain pod, while the area beneath the pod in Super Metroid looks as the rest of the chamber does.

I may have wandered from the original point, but I think it is better if I post every picture before presenting the main argument. These pictures will serve as points of reference to the maps that I have made.



This first map is one of two possible maps.

First we must notice the green line that runs vertically. Follow point 1 (where the Morphing Ball is, no picture available) to point 2 (first picture presented).
This is where the first two pictures show us that Samus is being launched upward. As we know this ability only sends Samus in a straight line. Therefore we can conclude that this elevator leads in a straight and unobstructed line vertically up to Crateria (point number 4). Also note that point 4 has "Brinstar" below it. This points back down to the starting point.
I began with the connection between Brinstar and Crateria, and then I worked Tourain (marked in light blue) into this structure using other facts, which I discuss later.

This gives us a basis on which to construct the rest of Zebes as it is the only definite path and connection point.

From here we can see 5 and 6 as being the cavern that is near the Chozo room of Super Metroid. We take that path up through the boulder (Power Bomb) and we can see the door that leads to the landing site.
If we take the opposite direction of that we come to a downward path. The bottom of this path, at point 7, is where a Zero Mission/Super Metroid connection falls apart.

First of all there is no door on the floor like there is in Super Metroid. Granted, it could have been installed at a later time, and if it was, it seems that the long shaft of Tourain runs right up into the bottom of Crateria's downward path matching Super Metroid. There is a problem with this though. The elevator of Tourain that leads to Crateria must travel a substantial distance. As we can see by the map, the distance between Tourain and Crateria is very short. How could an elevator ride that long fit into such a small distance?
Add to this the fact that this same elevator does not reach the bottom of the downward path, but instead to the left of it in the next room. Super Metroid shows that the bottom of Crateria's path is directly above the exit of Tourain, and there is an elevator there that sends passengers upward.

Now you may be asking what lead me to believe that Tourain is structured this way in relation to Crateria. The logic is flawless. Remember point number 3? This is the elevator shaft that leads upward from Brinstar to old Tourain in Super Metroid. At the top is a room, and on the other side of that room's door is Mother Brain's chambers. When I placed the Tourain map I made sure to line the outside of the chamber with the shaft from Brinstar. When I did this I found that Tourain actually fit the structure of the walls of Brinstar perfectly at the bottom, right side, and below the Chozo that held the Long Beam.

If this does line up, then why isn't the shaft seen in Tourain right before entering the Mother Brain's chambers? The answer must be that the map is not confined to a two dimensional plain, but actually moves in the third dimension. That shaft, if this map is the correct one, must be in front of or behind the hallway of Tourain.
I admit this is possible, because this is how I was able to determine Tourain's placement to Crateria and Brinstar. If the Tourain in Zero Mission is to be the one we see in Super Metroid, then it must be structured as I have depicted in this map.

Now that we know that this is the only possible structure, I can now point out why even this structure is impossible, thus proving this Tourain is not the one seen in Super Metroid.
Notice the red circles that I have made. These point out overlaps in the maps, or inconsistencies.
The first is the relation between the Tourain exit and Crateria. Like I said before, the elevator shaft is misaligned with Crateria's floor, which Super Metroid shows that they should be perfectly aligned. Moreover, the distance between the two should be short, but the game portrays it as lengthy.
The second problem is with the entrance to Tourain from Brinstar (the path that is blocked by the Kraid and Ridley statues). As you can see, the elevator going down is completely off course with the shaft that receives the passenger from Brinstar. That path also intersects with Tourain.

From this I can conclude that this map is inaccurate. There is no possible way for this map to fit this game or Super Metroid. Therefore I present the map that I believe is accurate.



Like before, the connection between Brinstar and Crateria is definite. From here, only the connections between Tourain's entrance and Brinstar, and Tourain's exit and Crateria's cavern floor need to be established.
This simple map shows only two minor concerns, and that is the path of the elevator shafts. This is because of Tourain's structure. The two elevators are closer together than the shafts of Crateria and Brinstar. So I placed Tourain in the middle and gave each shaft equal amount of distance to cover in order to match up with the shafts of the other two areas.
This matches up with point 8 being an elevator that covers a longer distance, and it allows Brinstar to flow into the third dimension to reach Tourain without intersecting other areas.

Of course you know this means that the Tourain we see in Zero Mission is not the one we see in Super Metroid, and just in case this evidence is not enough to convince you, or you feel like waving the inconsistent structure off to poor design by the programmers, then please read the following evidence.

1. The Brain Pod:
In Zero Mission, as we see by the picture above that I posted, the brain pod that Mother Brain once resided was destroyed. It was not destroyed like it was in Metroid 1 though. In Zero Mission we see that the pod has been torn apart, twisted, and punctured. It looks like metallic Swiss cheese. Compare that to the pod we see in Super Metroid. In Super Metroid the pod still has shards of glass, and the floor of the platform is flat.

2. The Zeebetites: The regenerative shields that Samus must destroy in order to reach Mother Brain are also important to this issue. In Zero Mission there were four, but in Super Metroid there are five. That is the same number as those that she must destroy in Metroid 1.
Add to this the fact that Samus must use the last destroyed Zeebetite as a platform or must fire through it, while in Zero Mission she does not.

3. Under the Pod: In Zero Mission the room beneath the brain pod is unscathed, while in Super Metroid it is as destroyed as the rest of old Tourain. That is only possible if another bomb went off. The only time that could have been was in Metroid 1!

These are too crucial to the story to blame on laziness.

4. The Structure of Crateria and Tourain: After the bomb goes off, Crateria and Tourain are left unaltered except in the areas that I pointed out. The altering of the landscape from Zero Mission to Super Metroid is only possible if another bomb went off, and gave the pirates a reason to rebuild. That explosion could have only come from Metroid 1, which took place after Zero Mission.

5. Point 11 shows that the pirates were not able to control the Metroid force, where as in Metroid 1 they were able to control and contain them because their numbers were not as large.

There you have factual evidence that Zero Mission cannot possibly be a remake of Metroid 1, and that Metroid 1 must exist in order for Super Metroid to exist. I do realize that simply proving this theory wrong does not make mine correct. Therefore I will dedicate my next post to proving that my theory is correct.

[ June 05, 2005, 04:02 PM: Message edited by: Dai Grepher ]

[Dai Grepher]

This map is from Metroid 1. I drew a straight line from the starting point to the section above it. It matches up perfectly with the spot just outside of Mother Brain's chamber. To position the Tourain map with Brinstar's I first lined up the elevator of Brinstar to Tourain. Not only are they perfectly straight, but it allows for the connection between the starting point and Tourain to be perfect as well. Though Tourain must move in the third dimension to avoid intersecting with Brinstar's vertical passage, this is possible and probable.
I would expect nothing less, since Super Metroid was created to follow Metroid 1, and Zero Mission was created to come before Metroid 1.

The last two concerns:
In Zero Mission, the vertical passage of Tourain is not the one seen in Super Metroid. Remember how the room next to the Crateria cavern had an elevator leading down? This elevator is none other than the passage to new Tourain in Super Metroid. The room at the top is where the four-fiend statue of the four Super Metroid bosses will be built in the future. However, this elevator does not take Samus to the new Tourain seen in Super Metroid. The shaft runs through this area, as seen in the depiction below.



The second concern is the escape elevator in Metroid 1. If the next screen up is supposed to be Crateria's floor, then why does it lead up through an elevator shaft? The reason is because this shaft does not go to Crateria's cavern. It actually goes all the way to the surface of Zebes. After Tourain blew up in Metroid 1, this shaft was destroyed and removed. Evidence of this is seen in Super Metroid. The pod that sits below the door leading to old Tourain is the same design as the one seen in Metroid 1 and it does not work, unlike in Zero Mission, where the pod is still active.

So there you have solid in-game evidence that Zero Mission cannot possibly be a re-make or re-telling of Metroid 1. Metroid 1's Tourain must be built after Zero Mission and destroyed in order for Super Metroid to take place. This is because Zero Mission's Tourain is in a different location, and because it has a vastly different design and structure.

Do not think me arrogant when I say this, because I have never stated any of my theories to be facts, but in this case I must proclaim that I have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Zero Mission is not Metroid 1, and that what I have submitted is no longer a theory, but truthful fact.

From this moment on, it is now a fact that Zero Mission and Metroid are two separate video games and stories.

Thank you for reading.

[ June 05, 2005, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: Dai Grepher ]

[Koga]

I didn't bother to read it all as you lost me halfway through. It seems to me you're basing it on the differences of the maps in Zero Mission and Super Metroid claiming it can't be the same place. But consider the Legend of Zelda series. Several of those games take place in Hyrule, but the maps are very different in OoT and LttP, for example.

Also, consider remakes in the movie industry. Ocean's Eleven with George Clooner had many things that were not in the version with Frank Sinatra. Still, they're two versions of the same story. That is what Zero Mission should be seen as: a retelling of the same story, with many things that differ from the previous version of the story, but still the same story nonetheless.

It's definitely not a fact that it's not a remake, as Nintendo themselves have claimed it is. I think the only fact is that you are the only one to disagree with Nintendo on this point.

[The Missing Link]

Originally posted by Dai Grepher:
I asked that no one post until I had completed my presentation. Please respect my requests in the future.

No.

These are too crucial to the story to blame on laziness.

Since the basis of cruciality is a determination based strictly upon opinion, I'd say that's enough to at least cause "reasonable doubt".

From this moment on, it is now a fact that Zero Mission and Metroid are two separate video games and stories.

Blah blah blah... Oh, you're still talking. Sorry, wasn't listening. Maybe because I don't freaking care to listen to meaningless arguments based strictly upon "OMG!!!111 teh pixels they don't line up!!!111 must be different lolwtfbbq!!!111oneoneone". Based upon that logic, you must believe that OoT:MQ is an entirely different game than OoT. Oh as well as the SMB2 for GBA since it had "new" cool items from the NES SMB2. I could go on all day, but you know what... it wouldn't make a hill of difference to you.

Thank you for your amazingly nerdgasmy explanation, but I prefer to adhere to the box text over your ramblings. In case you don't have the box anymore, let me relay it to you:

"THE FULL STORY OF SAMUS ARAN'S FIRST MISSION FINALLY UNFOLDS...

"The first Metroid game just scratched the surface of the cataclysmic events on planet Zebes, and at long last the rest of the tale has come to light.

"...The mazelike Space Pirate fortress has been entirely rebuilt with features like Morph Ball launchers and zip lines, and it crawls with vicious new enemies and bosses.

"Arm yourself! Use weapons and equipment drawn from the entire Metroid series--like the Speed Booster and Morph Ball--and new power-ups like the Power Grip..."

Hmmm... that sounds a lot like... oh yeah, MY SUGGESTION that you didn't even take more than a second to consider. But whatever.

Thank you for reading.

Well at least you're nice about it. I guess I'd better be nice to:

You can believe whatever crazy theory you want. However, don't tell me what to freaking believe. You can argue until you're blue that the game doesn't identically match the original; I don't freaking care. But despite that, there is an obvious intent by NoA (and likely, therefore NoJ) that this is a remake, and I can use that intent to allow Zero Mission to overwrite Metroid should I choose to do so. Nothing you have takes that right away from me. As such, there exists at least one other theory that matches yours, which means you merely have a proof of concept... rather than a absolute proof.

Good day.

Gee whiz... And I thought the Zelda community was nuts...


"There are some who call me... Link?"
"Carpe Gaium Domesticum!" (Seize the Cucco!)
Zelda: The Grand Adventures | Triforce MUCK
ザ行方不明リンク
悪いユウモアの賢人

[Beam Yosho the Drunkard]

Shouldn't you be comparing Zero Mission and Metroid 1, rather than Super Metroid?
Because Samus leaves Zebes for about...one game. The Pirates can install alot of new stuff in that time.

[Masamune]

Originally posted by Beam Yosho the Drunkard:
Shouldn't you be comparing Zero Mission and Metroid 1, rather than Super Metroid?
Because Samus leaves Zebes for about...one game. The Pirates can install alot of new stuff in that time.

Three games - Metroid Prime, Metroid Prime 2, and Metroid 2: Return of Samus. That's a lot of time for Zebes to be altered by the pirates.

[Dai Grepher]

Koga: I didn't bother to read it all as you lost me halfway through. It seems to me you're basing it on the differences of the maps in Zero Mission and Super Metroid claiming it can't be the same place.

Dai Grepher: That and the fact that there are still key differences in the two Tourains. Also, I have proven that the Tourain in Zero Mission is located beneath Brinstar, which contradicts Super Metroid, which is supposed to feature the original Tourain above Brinstar. I then proved that Metroid 1's Tourain fits above Brinstar's lower part and beneath its higher part. I also proved that it lines up to match Super Metroid's structure perfectly. These are all facts that you cannot afford to not read.

Koga: But consider the Legend of Zelda series. Several of those games take place in Hyrule, but the maps are very different in OoT and LttP, for example.

Dai Grepher: In the Zelda series, if I understand the most popular theories, each game either takes place in a different part of Hyrule, or they take place in different time periods which allow the land to change over the centuries.
Metroid's timeline takes place within a year or so.

Koga: Also, consider remakes in the movie industry. Ocean's Eleven with George Clooner had many things that were not in the version with Frank Sinatra. Still, they're two versions of the same story. That is what Zero Mission should be seen as: a retelling of the same story, with many things that differ from the previous version of the story, but still the same story nonetheless.

Dai Grepher: Now imagine the retold Ocean's Eleven ending with all of them getting caught or killed and never seeing a dime. Then you will be able to see the differences between Metroid and Zero Mission.

Koga: It's definitely not a fact that it's not a remake, as Nintendo themselves have claimed it is. I think the only fact is that you are the only one to disagree with Nintendo on this point.

Dai Grepher: The facts prove that Nintendo is wrong and that I am right. I am sorry, but I only say that because it is the truth.

[quote]The Missing Link:

>>Originally posted by Dai Grepher:
I asked that no one post until I had completed my presentation. Please respect my requests in the future.

[qb]The Missing Link: No.

Dai Grepher: Are you saying that you will not respect my requests in the future?

The Missing Link: Since the basis of cruciality is a determination based strictly upon opinion, I'd say that's enough to at least cause "reasonable doubt".

Dai Grepher: It has nothing to do with opinion. There are crucial story elements that are needed in order for Super Metroid to take place. Zero Mission does not fulfill these requirements, thus it cannot lead into Super Metroid, while Metroid 1 can.
Also, I do not believe “cruciality” is a word.

The Missing Link: Blah blah blah... Oh, you're still talking. Sorry, wasn't listening. Maybe because I don't freaking care to listen to meaningless arguments based strictly upon "OMG!!!111 teh pixels they don't line up!!!111 must be different lolwtfbbq!!!111oneoneone".

Dai Grepher: Excuse me, but I put a lot of my time and effort into this presentation so that I could inform everyone of my discovery. I have taken this discussion very seriously and have done nothing but contribute to the good of this forum. You were the one to post the jargon that you just wrote. If you still disagree then do so respectfully and courteously. Please do not attempt to belittle my hard work and my opinion. You are a moderator, correct? Doesn't this display of yours reflect poorly on the forums and set a bad example for the other members?

The Missing Link: Based upon that logic, you must believe that OoT:MQ is an entirely different game than OoT. Oh as well as the SMB2 for GBA since it had "new" cool items from the NES SMB2. I could go on all day, but you know what... it wouldn't make a hill of difference to you.

Dai Grepher: Master Quest had the same story as Ocarina of Time, with minor alterations in level maps and enemies as well as extras. That does not make Master Quest a different story, just a different playable version of a video game.

The Missing Link: Thank you for your amazingly nerdgasmy explanation, but I prefer to adhere to the box text over your ramblings. In case you don't have the box anymore, let me relay it to you:

"THE FULL STORY OF SAMUS ARAN'S FIRST MISSION FINALLY UNFOLDS...

"The first Metroid game just scratched the surface of the cataclysmic events on planet Zebes, and at long last the rest of the tale has come to light.

Dai Grepher: The box is only talking about Samus' past and the Chozo ruins. Like I said before, Zero Mission only uses Metroid 1 as a basis for a prequel.

The Missing Link: "...The mazelike Space Pirate fortress has been entirely rebuilt with features like Morph Ball launchers and zip lines, and it crawls with vicious new enemies and bosses.

"Arm yourself! Use weapons and equipment drawn from the entire Metroid series--like the Speed Booster and Morph Ball--and new power-ups like the Power Grip..."

Hmmm... that sounds a lot like... oh yeah, MY SUGGESTION that you didn't even take more than a second to consider. But whatever.

Dai Grepher: That box can be interpreted to mean anything.

The Missing Link: You can believe whatever crazy theory you want. However, don't tell me what to freaking believe. You can argue until you're blue that the game doesn't identically match the original; I don't freaking care.

Dai Grepher: What I believe is not crazy, nor is it a theory. It is a logical truth. I am not telling you what to believe, I am only telling you the truth. Whether you accept it or reject it is up to you.

The Missing Link: But despite that, there is an obvious intent by NoA (and likely, therefore NoJ) that this is a remake, and I can use that intent to allow Zero Mission to overwrite Metroid should I choose to do so. Nothing you have takes that right away from me.

Dai Grepher: True. However, what I do have is something that would make your choice the incorrect choice.

The Missing Link: As such, there exists at least one other theory that matches yours, which means you merely have a proof of concept... rather than a absolute proof.

Dai Grepher: Like I said, it is no longer a theory but a fact. Fact overrules theory. What is this theory of yours, that Nintendo has a Super Metroid remake in production that will match up perfectly with Zero Mission?
Please. If you wish to disregard the facts for your own baseless belief then do so. However, A.I. has a word for that: "Delusion".

The Missing Link: Gee whiz... And I thought the Zelda community was nuts...

Dai Grepher: I was actually thinking of posting there next. You know, I have been looking into a fascinating theory of there being multiple Triforces.....

[qb]Beam Yosho the Drunkard: Shouldn't you be comparing Zero Mission and Metroid 1, rather than Super Metroid?
Because Samus leaves Zebes for about...one game. The Pirates can install alot of new stuff in that time.[/qb

Dai Grepher: No, because the argument is that Zero Mission is Metroid 1 and that Zero Mission leads into Super Metroid. I have proven that it cannot and does not.
The Space Pirates can and did restore Zebes after Samus left the planet for those missions. However, it is illogical to assume that the pirates rebuilt the destroyed brain pod and scorched Crateria just to make it look like it did in Super Metroid. There is no reason for the pirates to fix something to be less damaged.
That is why everything in Zero Mission must have been left behind and buried while a new Tourain was built closer to Brinstar. From there, Samus returned to Zebes and defeated the next Mother Brain. The self-destruct of this bomb changed that area of Zebes into what we see in Super Metroid.

[qb]Masamune: Three games - Metroid Prime, Metroid Prime 2, and Metroid 2: Return of Samus. That's a lot of time for Zebes to be altered by the pirates.[/qb

Dai Grepher: That doesn't matter. I have proven with my maps that the Tourain in Zero Mission is below Brinstar and probably next to Kraid. Therefore it cannot be the same one seen in Metroid or Super Metroid.

[ June 05, 2005, 05:11 PM: Message edited by: Dai Grepher ]

[Codiekitty]

Originally posted by CodieKitty:
I wanna hear what you have to say about Final Fantasy vs. Final Fantasy: Dawn of Souls.


Where are these lemmings going? The Super Nintendo Super Shire! Hop in line and follow them there!

[Beam Yosho the Drunkard]

And I doubt Nintendo really didn't carw about the story, until Prime came out. You're making things more complicated as it already is...

Really, this is over-analyzing. In almost every movie, if you really look closely at everything, you can find tons of faults and such which can change the story around a bit, if you want it to. You're doing the same.

[Dai Grepher]

I have played Final Fantasy only for a short while, and I have never played Dawn of Souls. How about you tell me what you think of my discussion for the Metroid series?

I am not over-analyzing. I am recognizing the facts. The facts prove that Zero Mission is not a remake or retelling of Metroid 1. If you ignore the facts then you ignore the true storyline.
Whether Nintendo cares or does not means nothing. Unless they agree with me then they are wrong. The game facts prove this.

I have shown that Zero Mission's map cannot match up to Super Metroid's, and that Metroid 1's map matches up with Super Metroid's map perfectly. 0 goes to 1, and 1 goes to 3.

[CaptHayfever]

Now imagine the retold Ocean's Eleven ending with all of them getting caught or killed and never seeing a dime. Then you will be able to see the differences between Metroid and Zero Mission.

That has to be one of the most glaring non sequiturs I have ever seen. The extent to which that statement does not follow is so massive that I cannot begin to describe its size.

....Furthermore, even if your argument did make sense: Go check out a few different versions of And Then There Were None. The book's ending is different from the play's is different from the movies'. (In fact, the only film to retain both the character names and outcome of the book was a Russian version with a different title, in Russian.) Heck, even the title is in dispute, which half the versions calling it "And Then There Were None" and the other half calling it "Ten Little Indians", yet they are all still the same story.
Why, Agatha Christie, who created the book, even the play (just like how Nintendo, who created Metroid, also made Zero Mission), and they have huge glaring differences, yet are still the same story.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

[GRENTLEMEN]

Don't stretch the page, *******.

[Koga]

I doubt Nintendo cares enough about consistency to make sure the Zero Mission map matched the Super Metroid map. My guess is they just said to the developers, "do with it what you want, just make it vaguely resemble the map of NES Metroid. No one will care that it's not identical, and that it doesn't quite match up to Super Metroid's map. Well, maybe some nutcases, who have so much time on their hands, that they are going to over-analyze the entire map of both games" "No ****, do you think there's people like that out there?" "You'd be suprised".

[Beam Yosho the Drunkard]

^Exactly what I was trying to say.

[Dai Grepher]

CaptHayfever: That has to be one of the most glaring non sequiturs I have ever seen. The extent to which that statement does not follow is so massive that I cannot begin to describe its size.

Dai Grepher: Zero Mission is to Metroid what Metroid is to Metroid II. That is what I am saying.

CaptHayfever: ....Furthermore, even if your argument did make sense:

Dai Grepher: What facts do not make sense? Care to explain?

CaptHayfever: Go check out a few different versions of And Then There Were None. The book's ending is different from the play's is different from the movies'. (In fact, the only film to retain both the character names and outcome of the book was a Russian version with a different title, in Russian.) Heck, even the title is in dispute, which half the versions calling it "And Then There Were None" and the other half calling it "Ten Little Indians", yet they are all still the same story.
Why, Agatha Christie, who created the book, even the play (just like how Nintendo, who created Metroid, also made Zero Mission), and they have huge glaring differences, yet are still the same story.

Dai Grepher: The Nintendo that made Metroid is not the same Nintendo that made Metroid: Zero Mission. A new generation of programers made Zero Mission, and in this day and age of technology, there is no excuse for Zero Mission to be so different from Metroid if it were intended to be the same game.

YOU MUST SUCCUMB TO A.I.: I have nothing to counter your facts, Dai Grepher.

Koga: I doubt Nintendo cares enough about consistency to make sure the Zero Mission map matched the Super Metroid map.

Dai Grepher: Why would Nintendo not care about one of their games? I know this is only your opinion, but I would like to hear why you now think that Zero Mission was not made to fit Metroid or Super Metroid even though you also thought that Zero Mission was supposed to be Metroid 1 and lead into Super Metroid.
The fact is that if this were true then it would have been designed to fit both games.

Koga: My guess is they just said to the developers, "do with it what you want, just make it vaguely resemble the map of NES Metroid. No one will care that it's not identical, and that it doesn't quite match up to Super Metroid's map.

Dai Grepher: Except for those that are looking for a connection between the games. If Nintendo wanted to make the connection so vague as to leave so many differences between the games, then it is more logical to conclude that Nintendo made the effort to show that these are not the same game.

Koga: Well, maybe some nutcases, who have so much time on their hands, that they are going to over-analyze the entire map of both games" "No ****, do you think there's people like that out there?" "You'd be suprised".

Dai Grepher: Looking at the maps while playing the game is something every player does. They don't all have to take screenshots and compare them to Super Metroid as I have done in order to see that the maps do not match up at all. I only did that to show you what I have discovered by playing the game.

Is there anyone here that has more questions about my factual presentation? If there are none, or there are no rebuttals, then I believe we can conclude this topic. My next thought is to go around to other forums and prove the same thing to every other Metroid fan by linking to this topic. Not only will this present the truth to the Metroid fans of the world, but it will also draw them to this forum. Ergo I hope that each one of you will do your part to make this a better place to be and to discuss ideas.

[ June 06, 2005, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: Dai Grepher ]

[CaptHayfever]

Zero Mission is to Metroid what is to Metroid II.

First of all, that has nothing to do with what I said.
Secondly, you seems to be missing a word. Analogies are "____ is to _____ what _____ is to ____", but what you just said seemed to skip over the 3rd blank, so I really can't tell what the comparison is.

What facts do not make sense? Care to explain?

I just told you; it was a non sequitur. Your comparison about a different ending of Ocean's Eleven had jack squat to do with anything else that you had said or that TML (to whom you were responding) had said, and it did nothing to support your case because it didn't follow logically.

The Nintendo that made Metroid is not the same Nintendo that made Metroid: Zero Mission. A new generation of programers made Zero Mission

And the Hollywood that made And Then There Were None in 1945 is not the Hollywood that made And Then There Were None in 1974. It's still the same story.

in this day and age of technology, there is no excuse for Zero Mission to be so different from Metroid if it were intended to be the same game.

Actually, the new technology is THE EXACT REASON that ZM is so different.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

[GRENTLEMEN]

Oh, you're so witty. You have no facts for anyone to counter, for that matter.

[Dai Grepher]

CaptHayfever: First of all, that has nothing to do with what I said. Secondly, you seems to be missing a word. Analogies are "____ is to _____ what _____ is to ____", but what you just said seemed to skip over the 3rd blank, so I really can't tell what the comparison is.

Dai Grepher: I have fixed it to read: "Zero Mission is to Metroid what Metroid is to Metroid II.

CaptHayfever: I just told you; it was a non sequitur. Your comparison about a different ending of Ocean's Eleven had jack squat to do with anything else that you had said or that TML (to whom you were responding) had said, and it did nothing to support your case because it didn't follow logically.

Dai Grepher: I was replying to Koga what I spoke of Ocean's Eleven, not The Missing Link.
I think you should go back and read everything again. I asked you what facts in my presentation you found that did not make sense.

CaptHayfever: And the Hollywood that made And Then There Were None in 1945 is not the Hollywood that made And Then There Were None in 1974. It's still the same story.

Dai Grepher: That has nothing to do with this topic. That movie was remade. Metroid was not.

CaptHayfever: Actually, the new technology is THE EXACT REASON that ZM is so different.

Dai Grepher: It can be better without being different. Super Mario Bros. was remade for the Super Nintendo with better graphics, but the content was not different from the original.