Attention: Evidence that Zero Mission cannot possibly be Metroid 1's remake!

[Koga]

You should post this on more Metroid forums. You'll be suprised to see that no one will agree with you there either. You shouldn't be suprised, but you WILL be.

[Lord_Zack]

She's battled baddies on nearly every Nintendo system, cleaned house in the Super Smash Bros. series and recently blasted off for heroic adventures on the GCN (Metroid Prime) and the GBA (Metroid Fusion). This February, Samus Aran will return to her roots and relive the story that started it all -- revealing for the first time full details of her meeting with the Metroids. The plotline will be familiar to longtime fans of the Metroid series, but the challenges are new, the power-ups are plentiful (taken from several games in the series) and the graphics and sound are supercharged. Plus, if you thought that the original Metroid had a surprise ending, wait until you get past the Mother Brain in Metroid: Zero Mission. A new twist provides a deeper adventure than ever before.

Features


Samus Aran arrives on Zebes in an adventure that greatly expands on the legendary NES Metroid title.
Upgrade Samus's suit with classic power-ups from previous Metroid titles, plus all-new abilities like the Power Grip, Zip Line and more.
Cool cut-scenes bring Samus's incredible story to life like never before.
Beautiful graphics and an eerie soundtrack give each environment a unique, distinctly Metroid feel.
Sent to Zebes to investigate rumors of a deadly alien species, Samus meets her match in the form of the mysterious Metroids -- energy-sapping creatures that emerge from an oversized cerebrum beneath the planet's surface. Samus isn't the only traveler searching for the Metroids. A band of Space Pirates has touched down to extract the curious creatures and use them as weapons. Samus must thwart the pirates, but they are wily and will prove to be more trouble than Samus expects.

In the long-standing Metroid tradition, Zero Mission is a scavenger hunt for dozens of items -- missiles, energy tanks and tools -- that give you the ability to explore wider and deeper. Every time you uncover a device, you'll remember former dead ends that you can finally overcome. The endless chain of breakthroughs and discoveries causes the world to continue to grow and form.

The Metroids are only one of the many menacing species that lurk below the surface. The Zebesian underground overflows with creatures that aim to keep you from invading their turf. Metroid classics Kraid and Ridley hold fort in dark corners, towering over the comparatively small bounty hunter. The planet holds plenty of new threats, too, such as the lava-dwelling serpent that acts as the first line of defense in Kraid's lair and the armored larvae that lurk in the deepest sections of Norfair. The Space Pirates are no pushovers either, and you won't always have the Power Suit to protect you.

Bottom Line

Samus Aran's next adventure is a nonstop action masterpiece that puts a new light on the heroine's first visit to Zebes. It recalls the past and moves into the future with one giant leap. Start your thumb exercises -- you'll need to be strong to survive this fast and free-flowing adventure. Be sure to visit the official Metroid: Zero Mission website at Metroid.com for even more about this game!

[Codiekitty]

Originally posted by Dai Grepher:
I have played Final Fantasy only for a short while, and I have never played Dawn of Souls. How about you tell me what you think of my discussion for the Metroid series?

In order for my main point to have any chance of making any sense to somebody like you, it requires that you actually get out and play some non-Nintendo made games.

Your thesis is that Zero Mission, despite being confirmed by Nintendo to be an update of the original Metroid, is a totally new game just because it has prettier graphics and many alterations.

Dawn of Souls is Final Fantasy with prettier graphics and many alterations. It had cutscenes. It has new dungeons. The charge system was replaced with an MP system. The difficulty was cleaved. It has a boss theme rather than the same song playing for every single fight in the game, including the final boss. You have about six spaces to name your characters instead of four. The Orbs became Crystals. "Blue Belt" became "Monk". TNT became "Nitro Powder". "Nuke" became "Flare". By your theory, it's a totally new game rather than a remake.

Though I should I known I was going to get "I've never played those games", I was honestly expecting a "Dawn of Souls is a remake of Final Fantasy. What's your point?"

PS: I'm fully aware that Dawn of Souls actually has Final Fantasy I and II on it. It's just that most people I talk to about it associate it with just the first one. I'm also aware that Dawn of Souls is essentially Origins for the GBA, but Dawn of Souls actually has some more alterations from Origins (Origins still used the Charge system)


Where are these lemmings going? The Super Nintendo Super Shire! Hop in line and follow them there!

[CaptHayfever]

I have fixed it to read: "Zero Mission is to Metroid what Metroid is to Metroid II.

Okay, but it still has nothing to do with what I said.

I was replying to Koga what I spoke of Ocean's Eleven, not The Missing Link.

My mistake.
Your comparison had nothing to do with what Koga had said.

I asked you what facts in my presentation you found that did not make sense.

No, you asked what about that specific argument did not make sense, which I answered. I haven't said anything about your recent presentation.

That has nothing to do with this topic. That movie was remade. Metroid was not.

Given that the entire debate is about remakes, that has EVERYTHING to do with this topic.

It can be better without being different. Super Mario Bros. was remade for the Super Nintendo with better graphics, but the content was not different from the original.

Super Mario Bros. is a simple game that fit its original hardware well. There wasn't anything to change.
Metroid is a complex game that probably had to give up a few things to fit on the NES. It makes sense that a remake would have many differences, as it is on a more advanced system.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

[The Missing Link]

Every time someone says that Zero Mission is not a remake of Metroid 1, somewhere on the planet, a puppy dies.

SAVE THE PUPPIES! THEY LOOK CUTELY IN YOUR DIRECTION! BELIEVE THE REMAKE HYPOTHESIS! WE BEG YOU!


"There are some who call me... Link?"
"Carpe Gaium Domesticum!" (Seize the Cucco!)
Zelda: The Grand Adventures | Triforce MUCK
ザ行方不明リンク
悪いユウモアの賢人

[Beam Yosho the Drunkard]

The reason Nintendo didn't pay much attention to the story until Prime was because they thought "A Game was a Game." Simple as that. And they're pretty much doing it still, although they do seem to be focusing on story a bit more.

And quoting from The Daily Show;

It just has no credibilty anymore.

The media?

No, the truth.

[Dai Grepher]

prince zack: She's battled baddies on nearly every Nintendo system, cleaned house in the Super Smash Bros. series and recently blasted off for heroic adventures on the GCN (Metroid Prime) and the GBA (Metroid Fusion). This February, Samus Aran will return to her roots and relive the story that started it all -- revealing for the first time full details of her meeting with the Metroids.

Dai Grepher: Yes. She did relive those events by telling the tale of her first mission, which comes before Metroid 1. Zero Mission was the story that started it all, for her. This is why they called it Zero Mission, because 0 comes before 1.

prince zack: The plotline will be familiar to longtime fans of the Metroid series, but the challenges are new, the power-ups are plentiful (taken from several games in the series) and the graphics and sound are supercharged.

Dai Grepher: The challenges are new. That says it all.

prince zack: Plus, if you thought that the original Metroid had a surprise ending, wait until you get past the Mother Brain in Metroid: Zero Mission. A new twist provides a deeper adventure than ever before.

Features


Samus Aran arrives on Zebes in an adventure that greatly expands on the legendary NES Metroid title.

Dai Grepher: Yes, it predates it and sets the stage for Metroid 1. In the original, Samus' past was obscured and many people thought Samus was a male cyborg. However, Zero Mission gives us a look into Samus' origins. That is how it expands on the Metroid 1 story.

prince zack: Upgrade Samus's suit with classic power-ups from previous Metroid titles, plus all-new abilities like the Power Grip, Zip Line and more.
Cool cut-scenes bring Samus's incredible story to life like never before.
Beautiful graphics and an eerie soundtrack give each environment a unique, distinctly Metroid feel.
Sent to Zebes to investigate rumors of a deadly alien species, Samus meets her match in the form of the mysterious Metroids -- energy-sapping creatures that emerge from an oversized cerebrum beneath the planet's surface. Samus isn't the only traveler searching for the Metroids. A band of Space Pirates has touched down to extract the curious creatures and use them as weapons. Samus must thwart the pirates, but they are wily and will prove to be more trouble than Samus expects.

Dai Grepher: This clearly shows that Zero Mission's backstory is not Metroid 1's backstory. In Zero Mission, Samus is sent to Zebes to investigate a rumor. The pirates go there because of that same rumor, while in Metroid 1 Samus is sent there to destroy the Metroid threat that the Space Pirates stole from the research lab. Before being sent, the Federation attacked Zebes with their full military forces, and then they sent Samus as a last resort. This would explain why Samus never told anyone of this mission until much later.

prince zack: In the long-standing Metroid tradition, Zero Mission is a scavenger hunt for dozens of items -- missiles, energy tanks and tools -- that give you the ability to explore wider and deeper. Every time you uncover a device, you'll remember former dead ends that you can finally overcome. The endless chain of breakthroughs and discoveries causes the world to continue to grow and form.

The Metroids are only one of the many menacing species that lurk below the surface. The Zebesian underground overflows with creatures that aim to keep you from invading their turf. Metroid classics Kraid and Ridley hold fort in dark corners, towering over the comparatively small bounty hunter. The planet holds plenty of new threats, too, such as the lava-dwelling serpent that acts as the first line of defense in Kraid's lair and the armored larvae that lurk in the deepest sections of Norfair. The Space Pirates are no pushovers either, and you won't always have the Power Suit to protect you.

Bottom Line

Samus Aran's next adventure is a nonstop action masterpiece that puts a new light on the heroine's first visit to Zebes. It recalls the past and moves into the future with one giant leap. Start your thumb exercises -- you'll need to be strong to survive this fast and free-flowing adventure. Be sure to visit the official Metroid: Zero Mission website at Metroid.com for even more about this game!

Dai Grepher: Saying that it puts new light on her first visit to Zebes means nothing more than Zero Mission shows us her first mission on Zebes. That in no way suggests that Metroid 1 was her first mission there.
Metroid 1 even begins by saying that Samus had succeeded in past missions that no one thought were possible. Zero Mission was one of those missions. The creators wrote Zero Mission so that it would be Metroid 1's prequel.

Thank you for contributing. I believe that was from Nintendo's website. Though I agree with them, we still cannot use them as evidence since they are not a reliable source.

CodieKitty: Your thesis is that Zero Mission, despite being confirmed by Nintendo to be an update of the original Metroid, is a totally new game just because it has prettier graphics and many alterations.

Dai Grepher: That is not correct. The graphic quality does not matter. The graphic design and structure of Zebes is what matters. Super Metroid shows that the battle of Metroid 1 leads into Super Metroid. If 1 was truly remade with 0, then 0 should lead into Super Metroid. This is not the case, which is seen in the screenshots that I provided. The self-destruct bomb did not change the caverns to fit Super Metroid, and the design of the Mother Brain's pod and chambers showed that a connection to Super Metroid is impossible because the pod is destroyed and uneven and the number of Zeebetites are not equal to those seen in Super Metroid's old Tourain.
The alterations are of course all the power-ups that Samus did not have in the original, as well as the addition of new areas. Adding more bosses and abilities is something that I can accept as being a more detailed story. However, the omission of a mini-boss, Fake Kraid, in a story that is supposed to be a true and complete telling of Metroid 1 is a major detriment to the theory that it is a complete retelling.

CodieKitty: Dawn of Souls is Final Fantasy with prettier graphics and many alterations. It had cutscenes. It has new dungeons. The charge system was replaced with an MP system. The difficulty was cleaved. It has a boss theme rather than the same song playing for every single fight in the game, including the final boss. You have about six spaces to name your characters instead of four. The Orbs became Crystals. "Blue Belt" became "Monk". TNT became "Nitro Powder". "Nuke" became "Flare". By your theory, it's a totally new game rather than a remake.

Dai Grepher: No, I do not have a theory on remade games. I have a presentation of facts for Zero Mission, Metroid 1, and Super Metroid. This presentation was made for the Metroid series only. I would have to play the games you have mentioned in order for me to form a theory on it and then find facts to support my claim of it being a remake or not.
From what you have told me, it seems that this Final Fantasy: Dawn of Souls is not a remake.

CodieKitty: Though I should I known I was going to get "I've never played those games", I was honestly expecting a "Dawn of Souls is a remake of Final Fantasy. What's your point?"

Dai Grepher: I presume that your point would have been that if I accept the Final Fantasy remake in spite of the many differences, then why not accept the Metroid remake in spite of its many differences. Like I said, I would have to be able to research the facts so that I could determine if there was a remake or not. However, I must also add that these are two different series that we are talking about. In yours, one game replaces another. In mine one game replaces another but is forced to fit the requirements needed to lead into another game. From what I have heard, Final Fantasy has no continuing storyline except in the case of the more recent ones.

CaptHayfever: Okay, but it still has nothing to do with what I said.

Dai Grepher: If I understand this, you claimed that my reply to Koga about the Ocean's Eleven analogy had nothing to do with what The Missing Link said, and you would be right since I was not replying to him. After I told you this you still posted that what I said had nothing to do with what you said, so am I right in assuming that you meant my analogy did not apply to or was too different from the relation between Zero Mission and Metroid 1 that Koga illustrated in his analogy?
If so then I must disagree. He stated that the new movie is a retelling of the old one and is the same story as the old one even though it has been altered and updated.
So the main point was that just because it is altered or updated does not mean that it is a different story. That having been established, my retort was about the magnitude of alteration between the two movies, and its relation to the games in terms of scenario. My analogy was that the original Ocean's Eleven ended with the group succeeding, and then having Koga imagine that the modern version ended with the group failing. That is a significant difference, and it is one that would make a retelling impossible since that is not what happened in the original. My next point was to apply that measurement of difference to Zero Mission and Metroid, which would give Koga a perspective of how I view the two games.

Does that help to clear anything up?

CaptHayfever: My mistake.
Your comparison had nothing to do with what Koga had said.

Dai Grepher: Good. I hope I have explained my stance more clearly this time.

CaptHayfever: No, you asked what about that specific argument did not make sense, which I answered. I haven't said anything about your recent presentation.

Dai Grepher: Sorry. While we are on the subject, do you have anything constructive to say about my recent presentation?

CaptHayfever: Given that the entire debate is about remakes, that has EVERYTHING to do with this topic.

Dai Grepher: I have proven that Zero Mission is not a remake though. The facts that prove this do not apply to the movie that was referenced. That movie exists as its own completion and has room for greater change because it does not need to conform to a sequel. Metroid, on the opposite side of the spectrum however, does have to conform to later games in order to preserve its completion. This is why I have also proven that Super Metroid cannot take place unless Metroid 1 took place.

CaptHayfever: Super Mario Bros. is a simple game that fit its original hardware well. There wasn't anything to change.
Metroid is a complex game that probably had to give up a few things to fit on the NES. It makes sense that a remake would have many differences, as it is on a more advanced system.

Dai Grepher: Right, and I am saying that the more advanced system is capable of preserving the original structure, or at least fitting the structure of another advanced game that takes place at a later time.
The graphics should have fit with those seen in Super Metroid, and the maps should have been similar enough to make it different enough but still allow the concept of rebuilding and repairing the destroyed Tourain by the Space Pirates to explain those minor differences.
As it looks in Zero Mission, the concept of the Space Pirates rebuilding what was destroyed in Zero Mission is unthinkable. They would not rebuild the brain pod just enough to make it look as it does in Super Metroid. Rather than make something less damaged they would build something that is stronger in a different location, which is what they did in Metroid 1. Zero even confirms this since the maps prove that Tourain is in a different location than the destroyed one seen in Super Metroid. The programmers made an effort to show that Zero Mission is not Metroid 1, as I pointed out in my presentation.

[Lord_Zack]

Nintendo created the games. Nintendo said it was a remake, that is the bottom line. If you don't believe that, then you have absolutely nothing any one is going to listen to.

[Beam Yosho the Drunkard]

^We've stated that quite a few times.

Apparently, the truth has no credibility.

[CaptHayfever]

My analogy was that the original Ocean's Eleven ended with the group succeeding, and then having Koga imagine that the modern version ended with the group failing. That is a significant difference, and it is one that would make a retelling impossible since that is not what happened in the original.

Gotta bring back And Then There Were None, then. Different versions of it have drastically different outcomes, yet they are still retellings of the same story, even the ones with a different ending than the original.

I have proven that Zero Mission is not a remake though.

Well, clearly you haven't, otherwise there wouldn't be so much debate. A solid, complete proof cannot be argued with, so the very presence of so many other arguments that you have to deal with by definition means that your proof was not solid or complete.

This is why I have also proven that Super Metroid cannot take place unless Metroid 1 took place.

You didn't have to prove that; everyone already knew that.

Right, and I am saying that the more advanced system is capable of preserving the original structure, or at least fitting the structure of another advanced game that takes place at a later time.

I can see where you're coming from with this, but I really don't think you see where I was coming from, or that you ever will. Suffice it to say I disagree.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

[Dai Grepher]

prince zack: Nintendo created the games. Nintendo said it was a remake, that is the bottom line. If you don't believe that, then you have absolutely nothing any one is going to listen to.

Dai Grepher: From what you've posted, Nintendo has not said that it is a remake. Even if they did, my evidence clearly shows that they are wrong.

CaptHayfever: Gotta bring back And Then There Were None, then. Different versions of it have drastically different outcomes, yet they are still retellings of the same story, even the ones with a different ending than the original.

Dai Grepher: Those are re-envisioning then. Re-envisioning are different stories of the same events. For example, the cartoon The Batman has different origins for the characters than Batman the Animated Series does. That is a re-envisioning of a series. However, that does not make the The Batman the correct version of the true story.
Zero Mission is not a re-envisioning though. If it were then it should fit the requirements needed to lead into Super Metroid, and as I have proven, it does not.

CaptHayfever: Well, clearly you haven't, otherwise there wouldn't be so much debate. A solid, complete proof cannot be argued with, so the very presence of so many other arguments that you have to deal with by definition means that your proof was not solid or complete.

Dai Grepher: Anything can be argued, even facts. However, they will not be argued successfully. This debate still exists because the other side is too stubborn to accept the facts. If you look at what the other side has to say in rebuttal, then you'll realize that it has no evidence from the games, just an opinion on what a remake is.

CaptHayfever: You didn't have to prove that; everyone already knew that.

Dai Grepher: You know that I was refering to Metorid 1 coming after Zero Mission and that they are separate games.

CaptHayfever: I can see where you're coming from with this, but I really don't think you see where I was coming from, or that you ever will. Suffice it to say I disagree.

Dai Grepher: You disagree that Zero Mission as a remake of Metroid 1 should lead into Super Metroid by actually fitting the level design of it?

It seems that you are disagreeing because of personal reasons to believe that they are the same games.

[Tad Venture]

Dai Grepher, if I had a freakin' PENNY for how many times you have

A. Contradicted yourself
or B. Made an invalid point

I'd be richer than any of you.

You just suck. Your points suck. Your logic sucks. Prince Zack totally owned you, and you think that "expanding on the mission's full story" means "coming before the mission."

[Tad Venture]

Originally posted by Dai Grepher:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />prince zack: Nintendo created the games. Nintendo said it was a remake, that is the bottom line. If you don't believe that, then you have absolutely nothing any one is going to listen to.

Dai Grepher: From what you've posted, Nintendo has not said that it is a remake. Even if they did, my evidence clearly shows that they are wrong. </font>[/quote]Your "evidence" states that the people who created the game are wrong. Wow.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />CaptHayfever: Gotta bring back And Then There Were None, then. Different versions of it have drastically different outcomes, yet they are still retellings of the same story, even the ones with a different ending than the original.

Dai Grepher: Those are re-envisioning then. Re-envisioning are different stories of the same events. For example, the cartoon The Batman has different origins for the characters than Batman the Animated Series does. That is a re-envisioning of a series. However, that does not make the The Batman the correct version of the true story.
Zero Mission is not a re-envisioning though. If it were then it should fit the requirements needed to lead into Super Metroid, and as I have proven, it does not.</font>[/quote]Space Pirates. Several Years. Maybe they were in to "***** Eye" and did some remodeling. Maybe freakin' Mother Brain changed things up so it could suit her needs. Maybe things, I dunno, moved from time to time...Soil isn't exactly stable.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />CaptHayfever: You didn't have to prove that; everyone already knew that.

Dai Grepher: You know that I was refering to Metorid 1 coming after Zero Mission and that they are separate games.</font>[/quote]Yeah, but you're wrong...They're the same game, as proven by our evidence. It's an entire Message Board vs. You.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />CaptHayfever: I can see where you're coming from with this, but I really don't think you see where I was coming from, or that you ever will. Suffice it to say I disagree.

Dai Grepher: You disagree that Zero Mission as a remake of Metroid 1 should lead into Super Metroid by actually fitting the level design of it?

It seems that you are disagreeing because of personal reasons to believe that they are the same games. </font>[/quote]It seems that you are disagreeing because of personal reasons to believe they're not the same game. Admit it, we have way better evidence than you. You're just stubborn and can't see you've contradicted yourself and proved we were right a few times...

And like we said, why does the fact that Super Metroid's map doesn't fit explain this isn't a remake? The way the Space Pirates could have changed things, the way there could have been some "remodeling" done...According to your evidence, since the Mushroom Kingdom is different In Mario games, obviously it's some alternate reality with a DIFFERENT Mushroom Kingdom.

[Legion]

I really can't be be bothered reading through all the posts in this topic, because from what I see they're all just going over the same thing.

I just want to clarify what DG thinks the actual timeline is. Because if Zero Mission is a prequel to Metroid 1, that suggests that Samus went to Zebes and killed Mother Brain once, somehow lost all her abilities from Zero Mision and then went back to kill Mother Brain again. (Who has, presumably, survived as a bit of goo on a chamber wall, and has managed to regrow itself at a speed which puts most bacteria to shame.) And that's not even getting started on Kraid and Ridley, who exploded for some reason in Zero Mission. Apparantly Kraid and Ridley shrank between the two games as well.

In Metroid Prime the Pirates seem a little surprised that Samus has destroyed their base on Zebes, considering that by your timeline she would have done this before, pretty close to the original game.

But, whatever. It's only a game, and I make a rule of not looking into these things too much. I tend to trust the people who made the game, but that's just me.

[Dai Grepher]

Altaroth: Dai Grepher, if I had a freakin' PENNY for how many times you have

A. Contradicted yourself
or B. Made an invalid point

I'd be richer than any of you.

Dai Grepher: Then show me where I have done either of those by posting them.

Altaroth: Prince Zack totally owned you, and you think that "expanding on the mission's full story" means "coming before the mission."

Dai Grepher: Prince Zack only posted Nintendo's official statement, which can be interpreted to fit my facts. Yes, expanding on the mission's full story does mean to show a mission prior to Metroid 1, since Zero leads into 1.

Altaroth: Your "evidence" states that the people who created the game are wrong. Wow.

Dai Grepher: Nintendo.com did not create the game. My evidence proves that anyone who thinks that Zero Mission is a remake of Metroid 1 is wrong.

Altaroth: Space Pirates. Several Years. Maybe they were in to "***** Eye" and did some remodeling. Maybe freakin' Mother Brain changed things up so it could suit her needs. Maybe things, I dunno, moved from time to time...Soil isn't exactly stable.

Dai Grepher: Baseless supposition. Besides, the fact that the Tourain in Zero Mission is in a completely different location than the damaged Tourain found in Super Metroid, while Metroid 1 matches perfectly, proves that any rebuilding they could have done does not change the fact that the Tourain in Zero Mission is not the damaged one seen in Super Metroid. There is no possible way that it could be. Therefore it must be a different one. That one could only exist if Metroid existed as a separate mission.

Altaroth: Yeah, but you're wrong...They're the same game, as proven by our evidence. It's an entire Message Board vs. You.

Dai Grepher: No one here has provided a shred of counter evidence to my facts. The only things that have been submitted are claims that they are the same mission, Nintendo.com's statement, which fits my facts as well, and a few opinions on unrelated remakes and movies.
This also is not a case of an entire message board disagreeing with me. There are a few people here that refuse to admit that they are wrong and choose to argue with no evidence to support their efforts. Many people on other forums agree with me and have complimented my research and presentation. Some have agreed completely and told me that I am right.
This happened on two other forums, and soon to be three once my account at Nintendo.com's forums reaches the requirements to create topics. It is only a matter of time before this truth reaches the majority of Metroid fans and it is accepted as the popular belief. So you may as well get used to the fact that Zero Mission comes before Metroid 1.

Altaroth: It seems that you are disagreeing because of personal reasons to believe they're not the same game.

Dai Grepher: No. I submitted fact, not opinion.

Altaroth: Admit it, we have way better evidence than you. You're just stubborn and can't see you've contradicted yourself and proved we were right a few times...

Dai Grepher: You must be reading a different topic. That, or you have everything backwards. I have proven that Zero Mission is not Metroid 1. I have proven the hypothesis that it is the same game false and impossible. Your side has submitted no evidence to counter my presentation, which is flawless in design and factual data. If you can show me any post where I contradicted myself, then I will concede this one-sided debate to you.

Altaroth: And like we said, why does the fact that Super Metroid's map doesn't fit explain this isn't a remake? The way the Space Pirates could have changed things, the way there could have been some "remodeling" done...According to your evidence, since the Mushroom Kingdom is different In Mario games, obviously it's some alternate reality with a DIFFERENT Mushroom Kingdom.

Dai Grepher: Actually they are different regions or countries of Mushroom Kingdom, or they simply aren’t Mushroom Kingdom. However, my evidence is about Metroid, not Mario. So it does not prove anything about that series.
To answer your question, Zero Mission must fit with Super Metroid if it is a remake of Metroid 1 because Super Metroid shows that the destroyed Tourain is just below the surface in Crateria. However, Zero Mission’s map shows that Tourain is below Crateria and even Brinstar. This means that the destroyed Tourain and Mother Brain chamber seen in Super Metroid is not the Tourain in Zero Mission. They are in two different areas, or levels of the planet. Therefore, the destroyed Tourain seen in Super Metroid must have come from another game that takes place after Zero Mission. Metroid 1’s map lines up with Super Metroid’s map perfectly and proves that the damaged Tourain seen in Super Metroid is the same one from Metroid 1.
So that is the entire argument summed up in one paragraph. I hope that helps.

Legion's Back: I just want to clarify what DG thinks the actual timeline is. Because if Zero Mission is a prequel to Metroid 1, that suggests that Samus went to Zebes and killed Mother Brain once, somehow lost all her abilities from Zero Mision and then went back to kill Mother Brain again. (Who has, presumably, survived as a bit of goo on a chamber wall, and has managed to regrow itself at a speed which puts most bacteria to shame.) And that's not even getting started on Kraid and Ridley, who exploded for some reason in Zero Mission. Apparantly Kraid and Ridley shrank between the two games as well.

Dai Grepher: First came Zero Mission. In this game the Space Pirates went to Zebes to investigate the rumor of a nearly unstoppable species, the Metroids. These Metroids were native to Zebes, and were probably brought there by the Chozo who had been to SR-388. Samus is sent here to investigate the same rumor and to defeat Mother Brain.

After this battle, Samus finds a new ship, which seems to be modeled after her suit. This may be a Chozo spacecraft. In order to customize it and link to the computer, Samus may have had to transfer power or technology from her suit. So at some point she lost a few of the abilities that she obtained in Zero Mission.

Samus was already known as the best Bounty Hunter in the galaxy, though her identity was still a mystery to the Federation. Anyone who had seen Samus’ true self had been killed after that. Many rumors of Samus circulated, some of which stated that Samus was a male, and that many pirates all throughout the galaxy feared his power suit because of its massive power. Samus was also believed to be a cyborg, and the suit was actually thought to be surgically implanted into Samus’ body, making up his physiology.
After the Federation found that SR-388 was the home planet of the Metroids, only discovering it after noticing every other life form on the planet was becoming extinct, they sent a research team out to capture the Metroids and bring them back for study. The team was on their way back when they were attacked by the Space Pirates, who were under the command of a new Mother Brain that had established a new base on Zebes with the help of a different Kraid and Ridely. Those names are only code names for their species. These two Space Pirate leaders were considerably smaller than their cousinly predecessors, but their lethalness and dangerous abilities were impressive. They, along with the replacement Mother Brain, commanded the Pirates after Samus destroyed the last Ridley and Mother Brain on Zebes.
This new command wasted no time after their defeat on Zebes. They attacked the research station that was transporting the Metroids, and using data salvaged from the ship as well as their own studies of the Metroids prior to this, the Space Pirates were able to contain and breed the Metorids with much more success than the first time. Having control over the dormant Metroid and exposing it to bata rays conservatively also allowed the Space Pirates to have more control of the numbers of Metorids produced.
After the Space Pirates returned to Zebes, the Federation launched a full scale attack on the planet, but the resistance of the Space Pirates was strong, and the Federation was unable to penetrate the extremely hard crust of Zebes. Therefore, the Federation sent Samus back to Zebes with the orders of destroying the Metroid and pirate threat.
Samus succeeded.

From what I know of the Primes, I think Prime comes next, followed by Echoes. The Space Pirates were going to try and bring Mother Brain back from what remained of it using Phazon. At the same time the pirates succeeded in restoring Ridley from Zero Mission. They may have brought Kraid back to life, but it is likely that they did not or did not have the chance to do so.

After this Metroid II takes place, then Super Metroid, and then Fusion.

The Kraid and Ridley in Super Metroid are different from those seen in 1 and Zero.

Legion's Back: In Metroid Prime the Pirates seem a little surprised that Samus has destroyed their base on Zebes, considering that by your timeline she would have done this before, pretty close to the original game.

Dai Grepher: They seem a little surprise or they are a little surprised? In any case, they can be surprised that a single bounty hunter destroyed one of their bases, which the Federation could not even reach with their army.

Please be aware that this timeline may change. I am not completely familiar with every storyline element of the Prime games.

[Dark Magus]

I think that since Zero Mission is obviously Samus talking about what happened on her first mission (going mainstream here and saying it's Metroid 1 (Metroid 1 had no real in-game dialogue, so it could be assumed that it is currently happening and not Samus recapping it, as Zero Mission is)), that the excuse is since Samus is retelling the story, she obviously had room for a few creative changes-- Kraid being ridiculously huge, for instance As for the map change, she can't hardly be expected to remember the exact layout of Zebes from however far away she is and however long ago it was.

However, it's still a remake, because... it's the same game. That, and Nintendo themselves said before, during, and after the game's release, "It's a remake of Metroid for NES". That's how the game itself was marketed, that's what it is. You can't call it a new game because the map doesn't please you.

[another note: You say parts of the original Metroid storyline were dropped? ... How much storyline did the original Metroid really have?]

[ June 11, 2005, 06:45 PM: Message edited by: Dark Magus ]

[Dai Grepher]

If this is Samus' memory of the actual events, then how could she have forgotten about Fake Kraid? How could she forget the structure of Zebes if her suit's computer keeps record of it all?
The events may be a story, but what we play is what actually happened. The maps are the game, and the game shows the exact structure of each area. When you push start and then A in the game, the map that shows every area's placement to the others shows Tourain to the side of Brinstar.
So what we are being told is from Samus, but what we play is the present tense mission.
I don't remember anyone who actually worked on the game at Nintendo call Zero Mission a remake or re-envisioning. However, even if Nintendo as a whole were to call it either of those, my presentation proves that they would be wrong. The games prove that Zero Mission is not Metroid 1. Hence the title Zero, because it comes before 1.

Metroid 1’s storyline had the manual, Fake Kraid, and Mother Brain. Zero Mission had the story from the manual in its manual, but it does not refer to it as being Zero Mission’s prologue. It also leaves out a few things from the original manual. Zero Mission then omits Fake Kraid, and also leaves out one of the Zeebetites that should be placed right in front of Mother Brain’s pod. This is an important part of Metroid’s story because of the original, and also because of Super Metroid, which shows the same set up. Zero Mission does not follow this set up, thus breaking continuity for the series if it is supposed to be a remake.
So if Samus’ flashback to Metroid 1 is accurate in Super Metroid, then why isn’t it after Super Metroid when she is flashing back to her Zero Mission?

Zero Mission was made to be a prequel to Metroid 1, and everything about the game proves this.

[The Missing Link]

Originally posted by Dai Grepher:
How could she forget the structure of Zebes if her suit's computer keeps record of it all?

How does Samus' suit keep losing all of its power-ups from game to game? Sounds like faulty machinery if you ask me.


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