Super Metroid on GBA?

[poiuytman]

Hi, I haven't posted here before, but it seems like a decent place for discussion.

There's an interesting mention of Super Metroid in the Yoshio Sakamoto interview on IGN (http://gameboy.ign.com/articles/488/488084p2.html):

"Maybe if the fan base in the US decided it really needed to have Super Metroid as-is on the Game Boy Advance, then we might look at doing something like that."

As much as I'd like to see Super Metroid on a newer system, porting it to the GBA, which has two less buttons than the SNES, could be problematic. The default Super Metroid configuration is:

X - shoot
Y - cancel item
A - jump
B - dash/activate speed booster
Select - rotate between items
Start - pause/menu
L - aim diagonally down
R - aim diagonally up

If they ported it to GBA, some of the controls have to be eliminated or condensed. Here are some possibilities:

Diagonal aiming - these could be condensed into a single button, L, like it's done in Fusion/Zero. There would be a loss of a relatively minor ability, which is holding L+R while crouching to aim up. I use it when fighting Spore Spawn, but that's about it.

Selecting/Deselecting items - the item cancel button isn't a necessity, but it's convenient late in the game, when you have five items to scroll through (Missile, Super Missile, Power Bomb, Grappling Beam, X-Ray Scope). Maybe they'd go with the hold R+B firing of Fusion/Zero, which would eliminate the need to select Power Bomb. Still, it'd be a chore trying to switch back to Missiles from Super Missiles in the middle of a boss fight.

Dashing - this is what I'm most worried about. In Super Metroid, before you get the Speed Booster, there are basically two speeds you can move at -- walk and run. You can also move at an intermediate speed if you press the dash button briefly while moving left or right (Samus continues moving at her current speed until she stops or leaves the ground). However, if they removed the dash button, Samus would have to run at a constant speed. Her top running speed in Super Metroid is a bit hard to control in certain jumping sections, and if they reduced the speed, certain platforms would have to be moved so they could still be reached. Also, this would make speed-boosting automatic, which might be annoying. They balanced it in Fusion/Zero by making the distance to activate the Speed Booster longer (about 1.5), but doing this in Super Metroid would probably require more area revamping.

There's also the possibility that they'd just remove the item cancel button, and put dash on R. That might feel weird holding a trigger to run, and there'd still be the problem of five items to scroll through. Thoughts?

EDIT: Another idea: why not just remove the X-Ray Scope? In Zero Mission, they basically combine its functionality with the Power Bomb, which reveals all secrets in that game. I'm not sure what they'd do with the room where you get the X-Ray Scope, though. But it'd certainly give a reason to use Power Bombs more often, considering that you can have a max of 50.

-Poiuyt Man

[ July 26, 2005, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: Poiuyt Man ]

[Alucard]

I believe that with the feature of Missiles and Super Missiles being able to be activated and DeActivated via the Power Up Menu would allow you to switch between the two that way, condensing it to one type of Missile on the top. It would be like: If Regular Missiles are equipped, S Missiles are not, and vice versa.

Another thought could be a time-freeze-item-select when you press R. Press R and the game freezes, pulling up a menu. Select what ability you need (Missile, S.Missile, P.Bomb, Grapple Beam, X-Ray Scope) and press A to select it and get back into the fray...it's just a though...

Another thought: Port it to the DS with either the top or the bottom screen being a constant map. This thought will solve the problem of the missing buttons...

BTW, welcome to VGF Poiuyt Man...

[ July 26, 2005, 05:54 PM: Message edited by: Lycos ]

[The Missing Link]

Welcome, welcome, Poiuyt Man. I see Dai Grepher's description of how "hateful and nasty" we are didn't influence you. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I definitely agree with you on the diagonal aiming. In fact, I actually think I like having L+up/L+down better than L/R for diagonal aiming. I could never remember on a split-second which one was up and down with the L/R system anyways.

If I go out of order for a moment, let's go to dashing. One possibility on how to do this is a way that's been done in a lot of dashing games. Rather than having it as left/right versus B+left/right, you could do it with a double-tap of the D-pad. So right+right would begin a dash in that direction, and I think the control would feel quite natural; the only problem is that there'd be no easy way to slow down; one possibility is to let go of left/right and then repress it to cancel the dash, but then to reactivate it midflight, you just enter the same problem once again. It's doable without a button for it, but difficult.

Item cancelling is sort of a nice utility to have, but I know I barely used it in Super Metroid. I'd always head all the way through (most of the time, at least; occasionally I remembered). What is possible would be a "smart" triggering system. Say Select is your change weapons button. If you haven't fired any shot of the current weapon (sans the beam, which you don't select), it jumps into the next weapon immediately. However, if you have fired a weapon of that type, hitting select will throw you straight back to beam. The only time this becomes a real hassle would be when you have to go from either missle type directly to Grapple Beam or from Missles to Super Missles, and let's face it, USUALLY you go the other way in boss fights, and t here's usually nothing so coordinated where you have to leap into the air, fire a missle, and then quickly grapple onto something. I think it'd be an ingenious system to get around the button limitation.

Getting rid of the X-Ray Scope IS a possibility; I do know that there are quite a few people who simply don't use it, and those that do don't use it much. The only drawback to linking the X-Ray scope with the Power Bomb is that the Power Bomb doesn't allow you a lot of time to look at the screen to find all of the nooks and crannies, as well as then you'd be locking down the X-Ray scope to a limited number of uses.

Just a few thoughts to consider.


"There are some who call me... Link?"
"Carpe Gaium Domesticum!" (Seize the Cucco!)
Zelda: The Grand Adventures | Triforce MUCK
ザ行方不明リンク
悪いユウモアの賢人

[DELICIOUS POISON]

I don't really think a Super Metroid port to the GBA would work. You have to consider how much less of the screen Samus takes up in the GBA Metroid games, and what sort of effect a 3-tile tall Samus would have. They would have to resize to a tile system similar to the way LttP was done, and that could get damn ugly. If they choose to window the engine the way Mega Man & Bass was done.. Well, that game's not very appealing to play.

As far as controls go, though, I always set the R button to run on the SNES. Mostly because I can't reach 3 buttons at once with my thumb(heh).
It's very natural on that controller, and much more comfortable. It makes the game more playable for me. So, in that sense, I could see it being successful. But I don't see a port being necessary. Besides, if I ever want it on my GBA, I'll wait for a stable emulation on my flash cartridge. That way, I'll be able to deal with the controls however I feel like it, and won't have to worry about Nintendo adding in some "awesome" voices like in Mario or Zelda.

...Heh, and it's spelled "missiles", TML.



[ July 26, 2005, 09:06 PM: Message edited by: SOCCER PRACTICE ]

[poiuytman]

I like the smart-select idea. Come to think of it, isn't there some option in Super Metroid (under "Special Settings") that does that?

The double-tap run also sounds like it would work well for most situations.

Soccer Practice, I've never really had problems with holding down the dash button in Super Metroid. You only need to hold it down when you initially start moving, and then you can let go of it and she'll continue dashing. You're then free to use the jump and shoot buttons. You do have to hold down dash again to get the running started if her feet touch another surface.

-Poiuyt Man

[poiuytman]

Originally posted by The Missing Link:
[QB] Welcome, welcome, Poiuyt Man. I see Dai Grepher's description of how "hateful and nasty" we are didn't influence you. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Thanks. I don't think the members on here displayed an unusual amount of animosity towards Dai Grepher, considering his arrogance.

right+right would begin a dash in that direction, and I think the control would feel quite natural; the only problem is that there'd be no easy way to slow down; one possibility is to let go of left/right and then repress it to cancel the dash,

This is actually how you have to do it in Super Metroid anyway. If you let go of dash in the middle of running, Samus keeps dashing until her feet hit a new surface. The dash button is better described as an "accelerate" button.

but then to reactivate it midflight, you just enter the same problem once again. It's doable without a button for it, but difficult.

They could change the code slightly so Samus continues running as long as the direction is held, even when falling onto a new surface or after jumping.

So for areas like the big stairs in Brinstar, you could double-tap to start running at the top, and hold right to continue running all the way down even as you fall from each step.

I think something like this would work well:

B - shoot
A - jump
L - aim diagonally up
L+down - aim diagonally down
R or double-tap direction - dash
Select - rotate items (with smart auto-cancelling as described above)
Start - pause menu

Having two ways to dash would be useful, if some prefer a button and others prefer to just use their thumbs. And there could be alternate control schemes to use the R button for other purposes.

Or they could just put it on the DS and keep the control scheme the way it is.

-Poiuyt Man

[Alucard]

Originally posted by Poiuyt Man:
I think something like this would work well:

B - shoot
A - jump
L - aim diagonally up
L+down - aim diagonally down
R or double-tap direction - dash
Select - rotate items (with smart auto-cancelling as described above)
Start - pause menu

That control scheme would actually work nicely! This scheme can also work nicely:

B - shoot
A - jump
L - aim diagonally up
L+down - aim diagonally down
double-tap direction - dash
R - rotate items
Select - Item Cancel
Start - pause menu

Another thing: R and Select can be switched via a controll scheme set up before you load your game, if you are so inclined to do so...

Originally posted by Poiuyt Man:
Or they could just put it on the DS and keep the control scheme the way it is.

-Poiuyt Man

wasn't that the third thought I mentioned in my first reply???

[ July 27, 2005, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: Lycos ]

[poiuytman]

Whoops, I didn't read all of your post, Lycos. Thanks for the welcome as well.

I think a DS port would be very cool, but I don't think it will happen. It seems that all the DS games out use at least one of the DS's unique abilities well (touch, mic, or talk).

Super Metroid uses the buttons and the D-pad all the time, so picking up the stylus or thumb stylus would be impractical for using the touch screen.

And having a map on the other screen would be useful, but the mini-map has always worked well enough, and without touch functionality, there'd be no way to scroll the map without pausing the game (which you have to do in the Metroid games anyway to look at the map).

From a financial standpoint, since Super Metroid's potential DS applications are low, Nintendo would be wiser to port it to GBA. After all:

GBA owners + GBA SP owners + DS owners + future GBM owners > DS owners.

[DELICIOUS POISON]

The graphical implications of the GBA would still require the screen to be resized in some manner. I think the loss of detail might be liveable with an overall resize, but a windowed game would likely be unplayable.

[Jonathan Resop]

Hey, it's Poiuyt Man. Dude, I just want to say that you rule. You've been doing a great job fending off Dai over at Wikipedia.

Now, would this be a Super Metroid remake, or a prequel?-jay

P.S. If you want a cool rank like Dai here, just let me know. You could also be a Metriod Goo Roo.

[ July 28, 2005, 01:21 AM: Message edited by: Perrin Aybara ]

[poiuytman]

Soccer Practice, what if they just expanded the viewable area in the game to the left and right? I'm not sure how difficult it would be coding-wise, and what effect it would have on gameplay. The textures would probably have to expand further past the edges of the original viewing area for small rooms.

I found a video of someone playing Super Metroid on a PSP, using a SNES emulator:

http://rapidshare.de/files/3329548/Image_052.mpg.html

It gives a good idea of how it might look on a handheld system. The image is stretched quite a bit to fit the screen ratio. And the GBA screen is smaller, of course.

Originally posted by Perrin Aybara:
Hey, it's Poiuyt Man. Dude, I just want to say that you rule. You've been doing a great job fending off Dai over at Wikipedia.

Thanks Perrin, I've tried my best. I'm normally not an argumentative type of person, but the undeserved authority he has given himself (higher than Nintendo) has compelled me to prove him wrong. I've presented numerous forms of evidence, most of it directly from Nintendo, whereas his theories rely on his other theories, in some kind of illogical circle.

--Poiuyt Man

[ July 28, 2005, 07:40 AM: Message edited by: Poiuyt Man ]

[Alucard]

Another Idea: Release "Metroid Collecter's Edition" featuring Metroid, Return of Samus, and Super Metroid.

Metroid will be the same that is unlocked in Prime.
Return of Samus could have enhanced control schemes to utilize the extra buttons of the GCN Controller.
And Super Metroid would be able to use the whole controll scheme from the original, substituting Select for Z...That actually could work nicely!

SM Contoll scheme for the GCN:

A - Shoot
B - Jump
X - Dash
Y - Item Rotate
Start - Map/Equipmet Menu
Z - Item Cancel
L - Aim Up
R - Aim Down
L+R - Aim up while crouching

Actually, that works really well!!!

[Leinad]

^that's a great idea, pity nintendo probably wouldn't do something like that.

[Alucard]

It would be nice... they can also have an enhanced remake of RoS that is only on that disk with MF style controls or even SM controls...

[Demonicus Prime]

I agree with Poiuyt Man. DS wold work. They would also have to port it to the GBA, like Star Wars Episode 3.

[retrojape88]

Why WOULD they do this with the Revolution coming out soon?

[Masamune]

Elaborate, please.

[Koga]

Downloadable games from all previous Nintendo consoles for Revolution.

[hollis]

the revolution has such an akward controller though. I guess Nintendo could feasibly make adapters for the old-skool controllers and include drivers for all 4. by the way, when exactly does the Revo hit shelves

[DELICIOUS POISON]

The controller looks just as capable as the SNES controller...

http://media.revolution.ign.com/arti...05/vids_1.html