Kraid's Lair

***Cosmonautical*** · 09-19-2011, 07:42 AM

Val's recent thread in the Unexplained Mysteries gave me pause to wonder:

Who built Kraid's lair? It's always been completely different graphically from the rest of Zebes, and it's clearly not a normal Chozo structure. Was this some sort of research station, or do the hexagonal grids and so on indicate an alternate life form? It's very hive-like in a way, it makes me wonder if it isn't more of a nest for Kraid's species. Since we don't know how the race is born or raised (and it's been recently cleared up that apparently the older "hairy Kraid" design is a young Ridley).

Maybe it's not necessarily so reptilian a race, and perhaps it shares the habits of a wider variety of creatures? It's hard to guess at, since the area itself is clearly very built looking.

Of course, this all makes me wonder: Is Kraid even sentient? Or is it simply the most inconveniently mammoth life form Samus has ever encountered on Zebes? He's clearly affiliated with the Space Pirates, although to what extent one can't be certain -he might simply be a beast they planted there, as sort of a big green Cerberus.

**Valigarmander** · 09-19-2011, 08:52 AM

Given the metallic, artificial look of Kraid's lair compared to the unkempt jungle of the rest of Brinstar, I think it's possible that the Space Pirates build the lair themselves specifically to serve as an incubator, dwelling, and command post for Kraid.

As for Kraid him(her?)self, I think it's clear he's a leader of some sort, or at least a high-ranking pirate. So far there have been no signs of sapience in Kraid, but given how Space Pirates themselves are naturally conditioned to submit to a stronger master, it's possible he could serve as a dim-witted-but-powerful leader to the pirates on Zebes, with Ridley and Mother Brain keeping him in check.

***Marilink*** · 09-19-2011, 09:00 AM

Is it possible that Kraid is kind of like a god to the Space Pirates? Like, they built him a shrine and a temple and give him offerings to keep him satiated or something?

***Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds*** · 09-19-2011, 10:33 AM

That giant dead thing you have to walk through/behind to enter Kraid's Lair? That was the original inhabitant. True facts.

Jere · 09-19-2011, 10:49 AM

obviusly he is inportant in some way as he is brought back between metroid and supermetroid.

And i can allso imagine that he would be the Brawns before Brains type, maybe not stupid but quick to anger maybe?

or alternatly that he is recognized as a hard target therefore they linked him with the elevator.

**Valigarmander** · 09-19-2011, 10:56 AM

Given how little we know about Kraid, it's possible "Kraid" is a species, and not an individual. They could be native to Zebes or have been imported by the Space Pirates; Brinstar could be their natural habitat, or maybe the Space Pirates engineer them and them release them there.

Perhaps the Mini-Kraid from Super Metroid was a juvenile?

Leinad · 09-19-2011, 12:02 PM

^I always thought that, and that the fake Kraid in the original was too. Personally, now that it's been brought up I can't help thinking of Kraid as perhaps some sort of Space Pirate-queen. I mean it's carefully hidden and far larger than the the other pirates, and whilst it does share common features with the others, it's still drastically different. On top of that Kraid's area sort of looks like a hive. If Kraid is a queen that would make sense of the presence of the juvenile/fake Kraids as hives do tend to have other queens that can replace the active one in the event of her death.

***Cosmonautical*** · 09-20-2011, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valigarmander

Given how little we know about Kraid, it's possible "Kraid" is a species, and not an individual. They could be native to Zebes or have been imported by the Space Pirates; Brinstar could be their natural habitat, or maybe the Space Pirates engineer them and them release them there.

Perhaps the Mini-Kraid from Super Metroid was a juvenile?

I've always thought he must be native to Brinstar, since he's only ever been present there. The Space Pirates actually bringing the Kraid(s) in as a tunneler sounds pretty likely, though, since I can imagine he can go through a hell of a lot of rock pretty dang fast.

Maybe the lair's an artificial nesting unit built to raise Kraid(s) for tunneling, or at least to keep the queen/alpha happy?

I can't help but wonder what Kraid actually eats, btw.

Dizzy · 09-20-2011, 01:40 AM

^YOUR SOUL.

I'm not wrong.

Kargath · 09-20-2011, 04:37 AM

Given that it's an early Nintendo game, I don't think there's much in the way of story consideration - like early Zelda or the Mario series.

***Cosmonautical*** · 09-20-2011, 07:59 AM

^ Kraid's lair occurs in Metroid, Metroid:Zero Mission, and Super Metroid. It's actually had a lot more story consideration than both of those games (especially Mario), and even Zelda had more by the SNES era. Those are both games designed by Miyamoto, as well.

When I build things in games, I do tend to create things that have backstory that will not necessarily be conveyed to the player directly. Zebes has a complicated story even during game-time as evidenced by the collapse of the planet, wherein the map is actually restructured and coordinated in a way that makes sense. The crash of the Wrecked ship in Super Metroid itself was pretty detailed even at the time of release, for instance.

This isn't a discussion for what the developers have outright stated or intended, though, Karg. This is an exercise in imagination.

***Marilink*** · 09-20-2011, 08:10 AM

I personally like my theory. It would make sense (to me) if the Space Pirates actually worshiped Kraid in a way.

***Cosmonautical*** · 09-20-2011, 09:08 AM

Yeah, I could definitely see that happening with the Zebesian Space Pirates, in a way. It's not my first conclusion, since they seem to be almost totally selfishly motivated, though.

Personally, my very first conclusion about Kraid is that he was subjected to the same sort of radiation-growth that the the Metroid Hatchling/Super Metroid is, which caused its own massive growth.

***Marilink*** · 09-20-2011, 10:06 AM

How would you explain mini-Kraids, AI?

Jere · 09-20-2011, 11:18 AM

this is what i think:

Grease 2 - Reproduction - YouTube

***Cosmonautical*** · 09-20-2011, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marilink

How would you explain mini-Kraids, AI?

Well, in that instance they would be potentially mature Kraid(s). It would simply be that there was one in particular that had mutated properly. They could still be juveniles, though, there's nothing saying that a mature Kraid isn't normally a bit larger than the "mini" or "fake" Kraid.

***Marilink*** · 09-20-2011, 04:04 PM

Okay. IIRC, you never see any Space Pirates around the Mini-Kraids. As far as my theory goes, that could mean that they avoid their deity's spawn/children so as to not anger him. We don't really have any knowledge of what Kraid is like outside of fighting him--maybe he's actually pretty peaceable when the Space Pirates keep him that way.

Leinad · 09-20-2011, 05:05 PM

^Actually there's two pirates in the same room as the mini-kraid in Super Metroid.

***Marilink*** · 09-20-2011, 05:22 PM

Shoulda researched that. Oh well, they were protecting it or something.

***Cosmonautical*** · 09-21-2011, 10:27 AM

^ Not a hinging point of argument, I see.

09-19-2011, 07:42 AM	#1
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,100 Thanks: 2,151 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	Kraid's Lair Val's recent thread in the Unexplained Mysteries gave me pause to wonder: Who built Kraid's lair? It's always been completely different graphically from the rest of Zebes, and it's clearly not a normal Chozo structure. Was this some sort of research station, or do the hexagonal grids and so on indicate an alternate life form? It's very hive-like in a way, it makes me wonder if it isn't more of a nest for Kraid's species. Since we don't know how the race is born or raised (and it's been recently cleared up that apparently the older "hairy Kraid" design is a young Ridley). Maybe it's not necessarily so reptilian a race, and perhaps it shares the habits of a wider variety of creatures? It's hard to guess at, since the area itself is clearly very built looking. Of course, this all makes me wonder: Is Kraid even sentient? Or is it simply the most inconveniently mammoth life form Samus has ever encountered on Zebes? He's clearly affiliated with the Space Pirates, although to what extent one can't be certain -he might simply be a beast they planted there, as sort of a big green Cerberus.

09-20-2011, 09:08 AM	#13
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,100 Thanks: 2,151 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	Yeah, I could definitely see that happening with the Zebesian Space Pirates, in a way. It's not my first conclusion, since they seem to be almost totally selfishly motivated, though. Personally, my very first conclusion about Kraid is that he was subjected to the same sort of radiation-growth that the the Metroid Hatchling/Super Metroid is, which caused its own massive growth. Last edited by Cosmonautical; 09-20-2011 at 11:59 AM.

09-19-2011, 08:52 AM	#2
Valigarmander The Bee's Knees Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The land of rain and trees (Oregon) Gender: Posts: 29,755 Thanks: 1,649 Thanked 5,700 Times in 2,580 Posts Blog Entries: 20	Given the metallic, artificial look of Kraid's lair compared to the unkempt jungle of the rest of Brinstar, I think it's possible that the Space Pirates build the lair themselves specifically to serve as an incubator, dwelling, and command post for Kraid. As for Kraid him(her?)self, I think it's clear he's a leader of some sort, or at least a high-ranking pirate. So far there have been no signs of sapience in Kraid, but given how Space Pirates themselves are naturally conditioned to submit to a stronger master, it's possible he could serve as a dim-witted-but-powerful leader to the pirates on Zebes, with Ridley and Mother Brain keeping him in check.

09-19-2011, 09:00 AM	#3
*Marilink* Gotta catch 'em all! Supermod! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Location, Location. Gender: Posts: 29,118 Thanks: 2,535 Thanked 1,822 Times in 1,007 Posts	Is it possible that Kraid is kind of like a god to the Space Pirates? Like, they built him a shrine and a temple and give him offerings to keep him satiated or something?

09-19-2011, 10:33 AM	#4
*Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds* Admin "mine.. not yours. NO. MINE." Epic Ladynerd Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Forteresse de Valois Gender: Posts: 28,504 Thanks: 1,658 Thanked 1,820 Times in 1,042 Posts	That giant dead thing you have to walk through/behind to enter Kraid's Lair? That was the original inhabitant. True facts.

09-19-2011, 10:49 AM	#5
Jere Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sutme Gender: Posts: 3,648 Thanks: 404 Thanked 331 Times in 256 Posts Blog Entries: 3	obviusly he is inportant in some way as he is brought back between metroid and supermetroid. And i can allso imagine that he would be the Brawns before Brains type, maybe not stupid but quick to anger maybe? or alternatly that he is recognized as a hard target therefore they linked him with the elevator.

09-19-2011, 10:56 AM	#6
Valigarmander The Bee's Knees Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The land of rain and trees (Oregon) Gender: Posts: 29,755 Thanks: 1,649 Thanked 5,700 Times in 2,580 Posts Blog Entries: 20	Given how little we know about Kraid, it's possible "Kraid" is a species, and not an individual. They could be native to Zebes or have been imported by the Space Pirates; Brinstar could be their natural habitat, or maybe the Space Pirates engineer them and them release them there. Perhaps the Mini-Kraid from Super Metroid was a juvenile?

09-19-2011, 12:02 PM	#7
Leinad Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: That place where I live. Gender: Posts: 1,813 Thanks: 47 Thanked 56 Times in 48 Posts	^I always thought that, and that the fake Kraid in the original was too. Personally, now that it's been brought up I can't help thinking of Kraid as perhaps some sort of Space Pirate-queen. I mean it's carefully hidden and far larger than the the other pirates, and whilst it does share common features with the others, it's still drastically different. On top of that Kraid's area sort of looks like a hive. If Kraid is a queen that would make sense of the presence of the juvenile/fake Kraids as hives do tend to have other queens that can replace the active one in the event of her death.

09-20-2011, 01:40 AM	#9
Dizzy Podiaphobe Join Date: Oct 2007 Gender: Posts: 19,359 Thanks: 1,764 Thanked 1,161 Times in 804 Posts Blog Entries: 116	^YOUR SOUL. I'm not wrong.

09-20-2011, 04:37 AM	#10
Kargath et in Arcadia ego Join Date: Jul 2001 Gender: Posts: 8,334 Thanks: 1,226 Thanked 780 Times in 488 Posts	Given that it's an early Nintendo game, I don't think there's much in the way of story consideration - like early Zelda or the Mario series.

09-20-2011, 07:59 AM	#11
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,100 Thanks: 2,151 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	^ Kraid's lair occurs in Metroid, Metroid:Zero Mission, and Super Metroid. It's actually had a lot more story consideration than both of those games (especially Mario), and even Zelda had more by the SNES era. Those are both games designed by Miyamoto, as well. When I build things in games, I do tend to create things that have backstory that will not necessarily be conveyed to the player directly. Zebes has a complicated story even during game-time as evidenced by the collapse of the planet, wherein the map is actually restructured and coordinated in a way that makes sense. The crash of the Wrecked ship in Super Metroid itself was pretty detailed even at the time of release, for instance. This isn't a discussion for what the developers have outright stated or intended, though, Karg. This is an exercise in imagination.

09-20-2011, 08:10 AM	#12
*Marilink* Gotta catch 'em all! Supermod! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Location, Location. Gender: Posts: 29,118 Thanks: 2,535 Thanked 1,822 Times in 1,007 Posts	I personally like my theory. It would make sense (to me) if the Space Pirates actually worshiped Kraid in a way.

09-20-2011, 10:06 AM	#14
*Marilink* Gotta catch 'em all! Supermod! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Location, Location. Gender: Posts: 29,118 Thanks: 2,535 Thanked 1,822 Times in 1,007 Posts	How would you explain mini-Kraids, AI?

09-20-2011, 11:18 AM	#15
Jere Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sutme Gender: Posts: 3,648 Thanks: 404 Thanked 331 Times in 256 Posts Blog Entries: 3	this is what i think: Grease 2 - Reproduction - YouTube

09-20-2011, 04:04 PM	#17
*Marilink* Gotta catch 'em all! Supermod! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Location, Location. Gender: Posts: 29,118 Thanks: 2,535 Thanked 1,822 Times in 1,007 Posts	Okay. IIRC, you never see any Space Pirates around the Mini-Kraids. As far as my theory goes, that could mean that they avoid their deity's spawn/children so as to not anger him. We don't really have any knowledge of what Kraid is like outside of fighting him--maybe he's actually pretty peaceable when the Space Pirates keep him that way.

09-20-2011, 05:05 PM	#18
Leinad Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: That place where I live. Gender: Posts: 1,813 Thanks: 47 Thanked 56 Times in 48 Posts	^Actually there's two pirates in the same room as the mini-kraid in Super Metroid.

09-20-2011, 05:22 PM	#19
*Marilink* Gotta catch 'em all! Supermod! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Location, Location. Gender: Posts: 29,118 Thanks: 2,535 Thanked 1,822 Times in 1,007 Posts	Shoulda researched that. Oh well, they were protecting it or something.

09-21-2011, 10:27 AM	#20
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,100 Thanks: 2,151 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	^ Not a hinging point of argument, I see.