Microsoft bans up to 1 million Xbox Live users - Page 2

I am nobody · 11-12-2009, 05:06 PM

Pirating software is illegal.

Modding your console is something that should be a fairly obvious breach of the Terms of Service/Use for most people.

In other words, these 1 million people should have known what they did would break the Terms whether or not they read them and deserved what they got.

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! · 11-12-2009, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurch1982

Tough ****.

This isn't like they're bricking consoles for no reason. They're banning modded consoles.

Well, I don't like it, so it isn't tough ****.

Besides, what defines a modded console? They want to avoid piracy, but I am sure some harmless mods have been punished. I know it happened in the past.

PK FIRE! · 11-12-2009, 05:12 PM

Well adding thermal putty to keep your 360 from overheating and redringing is counted as enough of a mod to void your warrenty, don't know if it would get you banned from live though, I'll have to ask my 360 owning friends about that.

- You stupid dog.

Lurch1982 · 11-12-2009, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deku Trii

I've never paid for Live, so I'm not entirely sure how it works, but is there no way to view the TOS before spending money on it? If not, if you refuse to click "I accept" can you get your money back?

TOS is available online @: Xbox.com | Online Policies - Xbox.com Terms of Use
This is stated on the back of every game box. I believe you also have to click through this when you make a Silver Account (Free), let alone upgrade to a Gold. This is pointed to on the System Box, game boxes, and in the manuals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I REALLY HATE POKEMON!

Well, I don't like it, so it isn't tough ****.

Besides, what defines a modded console? They want to avoid piracy, but I am sure some harmless mods have been punished. I know it happened in the past.

It doesn't matter if you or I *LIKE* it. They can do that with EULAs and TOS.

Modded DVD drives and Modded HDDs are the main thing they've been gunning for. Anything else isn't detectable or isn't what they're after (piracy).

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! · 11-12-2009, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurch1982

TOS is available online @: Xbox.com | Online Policies - Xbox.com Terms of Use
This is stated on the back of every game box. I believe you also have to click through this when you make a Silver Account (Free), let alone upgrade to a Gold. This is pointed to on the System Box, game boxes, and in the manuals.

And should be somewhere in all commercials.

You know, Nintendo doesn't have anything like this. Microsoft is just a bunch of tightwads.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurch1982

It doesn't matter if you or I *LIKE* it. They can do that with EULAs and TOS.

Great, but the fact remains that I don't like it, in spite of its importance or the lack thereof. And I don't care what they CAN do, but I care about what they SHOULD be able to do, and what they SHOULD NOT be able to do. I am not gonna go on a crusade against them or something, but I sure wouldn't mind if someone else did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurch1982

Modded DVD drives and Modded HDDs are the main thing they've been gunning for. Anything else isn't detectable or isn't what they're after (piracy).

But if they could detect it, they'd likely f*ck you over and I hate that.

**Valigarmander** · 11-12-2009, 05:41 PM

Little known fact: in agreeing to the VGF ToS, you've pledged your eternal soul to Shane.

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! · 11-12-2009, 05:48 PM

^ I'm sure we'd all have agreed anyway.

Luigiman7 · 11-12-2009, 05:55 PM

I sure hope other companies don't follow suit. My stepdad's PSP'll be screwed.

Lurch1982 · 11-12-2009, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I REALLY HATE POKEMON!

And should be somewhere in all commercials.

You know, Nintendo doesn't have anything like this. Microsoft is just a bunch of tightwads.

Uh, yeah they do. Every time you update the Wii.

They don't have something as pervasive as this because the console doesn't go online in the same respect.

Sony also does similar things with the PSP and PS3.

Quote:

Great, but the fact remains that I don't like it, in spite of its importance or teh lack thereof. And I don't care what they CAN do, but I care about what they SHOULD be able to do, and what they SHOULD NOT be able to do. I am not gonna go on a crusade against them or something, but I sure wouldn't mind if someone else did.

They have every right to protect their closed off network from tampering and to prevent their box from being used to play pirated movies and games.

Robotazy · 11-12-2009, 07:55 PM

Well, why are you using it if you don't agree?

It sounds more like you want to be above the law.

Modifying a console is obviously something that all console makers clearly state that they are against. You don't have to use the online services, and you could probably make your own online service if you don't want to agree. But if you want to use the online services of Microsoft, you better apply to their rules.

It's no different than someone who stands on the opponent spawn point with a sniper rifle and picks people off when the rules state "no spawn camping". You don't say "well, he probably didn't listen to the rules so it's unfair to ban him", you ban him. If he wants to spawn camp, he can create his own room and make it legal to spawn camp.

It's that simple.

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! · 11-13-2009, 06:11 PM

The customer is always right, damn it. I didn't look into it (yes, yes, bash me) but there at least better be complete refunds for those banned consumers, and a formal apology for the inconvenience.

They can sell a system with a 52.4 percent failure rate and expect us to accept that, but we can't modify what's ours. I don't see that damn percentage on the back of the box.

I'm not saying you guys aren't technically right, or legally right, but what they're doing isn't ethical. The customer always right; we made you.

**Deku Trii** · 11-13-2009, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I REALLY HATE POKEMON!

I'm not saying you guys aren't technically right, or legally right, but what they're doing isn't ethical. The customer always right; we made you.

Oh, an ethics lesson from Mr. I-weep-for-pirates.

**Valigarmander** · 11-13-2009, 08:03 PM

Agreeing to Terms of Service is like signing a contract. Disobeying the rules put forth by the Terms of Service is like a breech of the contract. The service provider has every right to drop you, because you both agreed (regardless of whether or not you were paying attention) that if you broke the rules, this kind of thing would happen.

I don't see what the argument is.

Banned and Modded Xbox 360s Flood Craigslist

Quote:

Ever wonder about what's going to happen to the up to a million modded Xbox 360s that Microsoft banned from Xbox Live earlier this week? According to a report on CNET, quite a few of them are turning up on Craigslist.
A quick glance at the online classifieds network reveals hundreds upon hundreds of people selling modified Xbox 360 consoles, a number of which straight-up admit to having their systems banned from Xbox Live. These modded 360s also happen to be going for shockingly cheap prices -- some as low as $120 for the console plus games. Sure, they're basically crippled without access to Xbox Live, but some would consider it a deal nonetheless.

Tempting as a cheap Xbox 360 loaded with pirated games might sound, Microsoft has a warning for anyone in the market for one of these modified units. "If you purchase a modified console second-hand, the warranty is not transferable and the purchaser assumes the risk for any previous modifications. If you purchase a console that has been previously banned, you will not be able to connect to [Xbox] Live," reads the statement Microsoft issued to CNET.

Metal Mario · 11-13-2009, 08:50 PM

Exactly how key to the Xbox experience is Xbox Live anyway? I mean, if I were to buy an Xbox, I'd buy it to play games. And by "games", I mean those plastic discs you buy at Wal-Mart for $50. I'm old-school that way. I go to the store, I buy a game, I pop it in the system. But the phrasing in all these articles makes it sound as if you can't even play the damn Xbox at all without taking it online.

Bomby · 11-13-2009, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I REALLY HATE POKEMON!

The customer is always right, damn it.
....
The customer always right; we made you.

Wow, talk about a gross misinterpretation...

**LASER BEAR ASSAULT UNIT** · 11-13-2009, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I REALLY HATE POKEMON!

I'm not saying you guys aren't technically right, or legally right, but what they're doing isn't ethical. The customer always right; we made you.

Not Always Right | Funny & Stupid Customer Quotes

Glux · 11-13-2009, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I REALLY HATE POKEMON!

there at least better be complete refunds for those banned consumers, and a formal apology for the inconvenience.

Hell no!
You broke the ****ing rules rules you pay the price.

Lurch1982 · 11-13-2009, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I REALLY HATE POKEMON!

The customer is always right, damn it.

No. Anyone that's ever had to work front line at retail or food knows that's a total crock of ****.

Quote:

I didn't look into it (yes, yes, bash me) but there at least better be complete refunds for those banned consumers, and a formal apology for the inconvenience.

Like anything with an EULA, if you buy it and don't agree to the terms you can return it within a reasonable time frame for a full refund (try reading those things when you install things). If you agree to the EULA and violate it, you deserve nothing. You lose. You agreed to a binding contract and you violated it. You get no refund, you certainly don't get an apology, and if anything you're lucky that Microsoft just didn't brick the entire system like a certain sat company did to people using modified receivers, or what Apple does to the jailbroken iPhones with every single update.

Quote:

They can sell a system with a 52.4 percent failure rate and expect us to accept that, but we can't modify what's ours. I don't see that damn percentage on the back of the box.

The 52% number is bogus. It came from GI's opt-in poll to its readers. (1) Not scientific cross-section. (2) Like there's never been ballot stuffing concerning "teh systam warz." (3) Microsoft's warranty is absurdly good compared to any other consumer electronics. Three years on any system out the box beats anyone else.

Quote:

I'm not saying you guys aren't technically right, or legally right, but what they're doing isn't ethical. The customer always right; we made you.

Unethical is violating an EULA by modding your box to play pirated games, boost your gamer score using a HDD exploit, or otherwise tampering with the system.

The customer is often wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valigarmander

Agreeing to Terms of Service is like signing a contract. Disobeying the rules put forth by the Terms of Service is like a breech of the contract. The service provider has every right to drop you, because you both agreed (regardless of whether or not you were paying attention) that if you broke the rules, this kind of thing would happen.

I don't see what the argument is.

Banned and Modded Xbox 360s Flood Craigslist

Yeah, I wouldn't buy an Xbox used at this point. Caveat emptor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metal Mario

Exactly how key to the Xbox experience is Xbox Live anyway? I mean, if I were to buy an Xbox, I'd buy it to play games. And by "games", I mean those plastic discs you buy at Wal-Mart for $50. I'm old-school that way. I go to the store, I buy a game, I pop it in the system. But the phrasing in all these articles makes it sound as if you can't even play the damn Xbox at all without taking it online.

With the 360 its pretty pervasive. You either use XBL Silver (Free) or XBL Gold (paid). Gold gets online gaming. Silver doesn't, but can access the store (DLC), can update games, operate a friends list, or do any of the other online things (buy movies, games on demand, demos, etc). You don't NEED Xbox Live to use the system, and the banned boxes are still functional. They just can't go online to the network (meaning any game you do own remain unpatched and you can't buy things).

The major thing is that being barred from the network prevents you from getting the free patches to games.

***the Octopus*** · 11-14-2009, 01:27 AM

Something IRHP has missed here, in particular, is that when you bought the system you did not buy the right to connect it to the XBL network. To pay for and activate XBL, you have to agree to the TOS which are thrust in your face. So you basically haven't paid for anything before you agreed to their terms.

If anything, you should be angry at the modchip companies, etc, if they didn't inform you that there might be adverse results to modding your system. Chances are they did, though, and you ignored it.

Funny thing about the EULA and ToS contracts, most of us that skip them do so because we already know what kind of leverage the company has over us. If you didn't, that's a shame, but ignorance isn't an excuse in the US.

Zharen · 11-14-2009, 06:09 AM

Thread is a classic example of the entitlement generation.

11-12-2009, 05:41 PM	#26
Valigarmander The Bee's Knees Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The land of rain and trees (Oregon) Gender: Posts: 29,223 Thanks: 1,611 Thanked 5,553 Times in 2,499 Posts Blog Entries: 18	Little known fact: in agreeing to the VGF ToS, you've pledged your eternal soul to Shane. __________________

11-12-2009, 05:55 PM	#28
Luigiman7 ~)´◡｀(~ Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: representin da bronx yo Gender: Posts: 17,308 Thanks: 1,100 Thanked 992 Times in 698 Posts Blog Entries: 8	I sure hope other companies don't follow suit. My stepdad's PSP'll be screwed. __________________ ／人◕ ‿‿ ◕人＼ＷＯＮ’Ｔ　ＹＯＵ　ＢＥＣＯＭＥ　Ａ　ＭＡＧＩＣＡＬ　ＧＩＲＬ？

11-12-2009, 05:06 PM	#21
I am nobody Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Over there. Gender: Posts: 5,515 Thanks: 309 Thanked 365 Times in 242 Posts Blog Entries: 7	Pirating software is illegal. Modding your console is something that should be a fairly obvious breach of the Terms of Service/Use for most people. In other words, these 1 million people should have known what they did would break the Terms whether or not they read them and deserved what they got.

11-12-2009, 05:12 PM	#23
PK FIRE! Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: On the run. Gender: Posts: 9,544 Thanks: 175 Thanked 150 Times in 120 Posts	Well adding thermal putty to keep your 360 from overheating and redringing is counted as enough of a mod to void your warrenty, don't know if it would get you banned from live though, I'll have to ask my 360 owning friends about that. - You stupid dog.

11-12-2009, 05:48 PM	#27
I REALLY HATE POKEMON! Goku lives on the Sun Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: California, U.S.A Gender: Posts: 12,543 Thanks: 1,247 Thanked 263 Times in 222 Posts Blog Entries: 1	^ I'm sure we'd all have agreed anyway.

11-12-2009, 07:55 PM	#30
Robotazy PRESS ANY KEY TO PANIC! Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: A Tiny Shed Gender: Posts: 16,284 Thanks: 521 Thanked 1,238 Times in 885 Posts Blog Entries: 43	Well, why are you using it if you don't agree? It sounds more like you want to be above the law. Modifying a console is obviously something that all console makers clearly state that they are against. You don't have to use the online services, and you could probably make your own online service if you don't want to agree. But if you want to use the online services of Microsoft, you better apply to their rules. It's no different than someone who stands on the opponent spawn point with a sniper rifle and picks people off when the rules state "no spawn camping". You don't say "well, he probably didn't listen to the rules so it's unfair to ban him", you ban him. If he wants to spawn camp, he can create his own room and make it legal to spawn camp. It's that simple.

11-13-2009, 06:11 PM	#31
I REALLY HATE POKEMON! Goku lives on the Sun Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: California, U.S.A Gender: Posts: 12,543 Thanks: 1,247 Thanked 263 Times in 222 Posts Blog Entries: 1	The customer is always right, damn it. I didn't look into it (yes, yes, bash me) but there at least better be complete refunds for those banned consumers, and a formal apology for the inconvenience. They can sell a system with a 52.4 percent failure rate and expect us to accept that, but we can't modify what's ours. I don't see that damn percentage on the back of the box. I'm not saying you guys aren't technically right, or legally right, but what they're doing isn't ethical. The customer always right; we made you.

11-13-2009, 08:50 PM	#34
Metal Mario Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 1999 Gender: Posts: 16,435 Thanks: 72 Thanked 190 Times in 127 Posts	Exactly how key to the Xbox experience is Xbox Live anyway? I mean, if I were to buy an Xbox, I'd buy it to play games. And by "games", I mean those plastic discs you buy at Wal-Mart for $50. I'm old-school that way. I go to the store, I buy a game, I pop it in the system. But the phrasing in all these articles makes it sound as if you can't even play the damn Xbox at all without taking it online.

11-14-2009, 01:27 AM	#39
*the Octopus* THE PRESIDENT OF FUN Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 27,481 Thanks: 1,974 Thanked 5,121 Times in 2,320 Posts	Something IRHP has missed here, in particular, is that when you bought the system you did not buy the right to connect it to the XBL network. To pay for and activate XBL, you have to agree to the TOS which are thrust in your face. So you basically haven't paid for anything before you agreed to their terms. If anything, you should be angry at the modchip companies, etc, if they didn't inform you that there might be adverse results to modding your system. Chances are they did, though, and you ignored it. Funny thing about the EULA and ToS contracts, most of us that skip them do so because we already know what kind of leverage the company has over us. If you didn't, that's a shame, but ignorance isn't an excuse in the US.

11-14-2009, 06:09 AM	#40
Zharen Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Modesto, CA U.S. Gender: Posts: 7,085 Thanks: 21 Thanked 71 Times in 35 Posts	Thread is a classic example of the entitlement generation.