Microsoft bans up to 1 million Xbox Live users

[I am nobody]

The customer is always right, damn it.

What few businesses actually practice that will agree that it does not extend to the customer breaching a contract.

I didn't look into it (yes, yes, bash me) but there at least better be complete refunds for those banned consumers, and a formal apology for the inconvenience.

Would you give me a refund and an apology if I breached a contract with you? Why even have the rules in place at all if you're just going to pardon everyone that breaks them?

They can sell a system with a 52.4 percent failure rate and expect us to accept that, but we can't modify what's ours. I don't see that damn percentage on the back of the box.

Millions of people have purchased 360s, so yeah, I'd say they expect most customers to be willing to take the risk of needing their warranty. As for the second part, you have every right to modify the console. You just can't use their service (which they own) if you do.

I'm not saying you guys aren't technically right, or legally right, but what they're doing isn't ethical. The customer always right; we made you.

How is it not ethical to stop giving services to someone who doesn't hold up their end of the bargain?

Contracts exist for a reason. Anyone that breaches one, whether they actually bothered to read it before announcing their agreement or not, should be prepared to deal with the consequences. Especially when the consequences are as minor as discontinuation of service.

[Loot]

I take it IRHP got banned from XBox Live.



HAW HAW

[Deku Trii]

Hahaha!

Abington IP | Xbox Live Class Action

[the Octopus]

Yeah, the timing was shady. They should've been enforcing it from the beginning.

[Robotazy]

Ehhhhhh.

Microsoft SHOULD have been doing this the whole time. Now they have extracted money from people who aren't going to have X-box Live. It's a case, but I'm on the fence.


Ironically, I just got the Red Rings of Death on my X-box 360 a week ago.

[Lurch1982]

They have been doing this the whole time, but they tend to go extremely heavy handed right before a console update. In the same vein, its sort of like how Bungie constantly bans people for network manipulation or boosting, but will also do heavy handed sweeps. The sweeps take weeks on end to complete and they compile evidence during that time.

You can file a lawsuit, but it doesn't mean it has merit. Here's what's going to happen.

Q1: Did you violate the terms of use by modding your console and connecting it to Xbox Live?
A: Yes.

Dismissed with prejudice.

On top of it, they're not banning people from Xbox Live with the sweeps. They're banning the hardware. If you have an unmodded console, you can still use your Live account.

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

I concede my argument, yet retain my hatred for their actions.

Originally Posted by Aquatic Mine

Ironically, I just got the Red Rings of Death on my X-box 360 a week ago.

Have fun wasting some money on a new one, or spending the money to fix it, or if you already had fun shelling out extra money for a warranty, I am also sure you'll have LOADS of fun waiting for your system to come back after you ship it off.

Take the financial, and time rapeage with a smile on your face, but don't modify your system.

...

Oh yeah. I conceded my point... >_>

[Lurch1982]

They extended the warranties for RRoD free for 3 years after purchase. The turnarounds are pretty quick on them now (about a week), and they pay for the shipping (not the box).

Any other ways you want to look stupid today?

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

Originally Posted by Lurch1982

They extended the warranties for RRoD free for 3 years after purchase. The turnarounds are pretty quick on them now (about a week), and they pay for the shipping (not the box).

Any other ways you want to look stupid today?

And the warranties are free?

A week huh? And that's "now", not before, when it could take a month or more. And that is also per RRoD, of course. It isn't unheard of to have somebody get screwed with multiple RRoDs.

I'll let them go on the box, it can't be that expensive.

Dunno if concerns about inconvenience and finances make someone look stupid.

[Lurch1982]

Uh, yeah. Free 3 year extension on the RRoD problem. Cost them millions, huge news story when it happened, etc. Setting up an exchange takes about 3 minutes online and brings you to a label printing page.

Shipping is basically dependent on where you are geographically. IIRC the depot is in Texas, which is about a 2-3 day ship from almost anywhere in the lower 48. They basically send out a refurbished console the day the receive the one you send. Depending on where you live, if you send it on a Monday, you'll get it back by next Monday.

Not sure if they're still doing this, but for a while they were sending 1 month cards to XBL to compensate for time not used (not sure if this is a gold only thing or what).

The RRoD problem has dropped majorly since the last two hardware revisions went in. They're not using them on the refurbished units, but the Q/C on those have improved since the warranty extension.

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

Originally Posted by Lurch1982

Uh, yeah. Free 3 year extension on the RRoD problem. Cost them millions, huge news story when it happened, etc. Setting up an exchange takes about 3 minutes online and brings you to a label printing page.

The RRoD problem has dropped majorly since the last two hardware revisions went in. They're not using them on the refurbished units, but the Q/C on those have improved since the warranty extension.

Well, a free warranty is pretty good.

It couldn't have dropped that much, with one of our own in this very topic having the trouble about a week ago. It is just pretty damn common.

Seems there are two sides on the argument; those who believe it is far more rare than commonly believed, and those who believe it happens often. I don't know what to believe, but I know people IRL and on here, as well as from news reports that it happens a lot.

[Lurch1982]

Originally Posted by I REALLY HATE POKEMON!

Well, a free warranty is pretty good.

It couldn't have dropped that much, with one of our own in this very topic having the trouble about a week ago. It is just pretty damn common.

Seems there are two sides on the argument; those who believe it is far more rare than commonly believed, and those who believe it happens often. I don't know what to believe, but I know people IRL and on here, as well as from news reports that it happens a lot.

It depends on the batch and depends where you put it. My system wasn't a launch system, but was built in the Spring 06. I bought it around August 06, played it extremely heavily, and it didn't die until 2009. Tritoch's launch system lasted until 08 (I think). A few RL friends systems died within 3 months. I haven't really heard of anyone buying a system on either of the more recent hardware revisions (chipsets, not pretty boxes and the like) having the RRoD problem. The Warranty extension (3 year thing for free) is basically a sucker-bet. The idea is that yeah, you eat the cost of all of the older systems that will crap out in that period, but you don't have to worry about the newer hardware having the same failure rates.

The warranty is the same idea as that "side bet" they have at some blackjack tables. Its like a 2 dollar bet, and if you pull double-queens or something you can spin a wheel and win up to like 5 grand. The Casino knows that, yeah, one lucky ******* might win that in a day, but you're going to have thousands of idiots putting down a 2 dollar bet that never pays off.

The rates were high on the early revisions. I don't think they're in the 50% range like the GI survey says. Ideally, consumer electronics have an 8% or less failure rate. Its harder to say now since they've put out better hardware revisions, but I would have pegged it as a 20-30% failure rate on units bought at retail. Refurbs are a different story, and they had some major problems with the refurb lines until they started revising the hardware (they were basically using broken machines and not FIXING the defect, just repairing them). The failure rate has gone down significantly with the last few hardware revisions. You just have to make sure you don't buy an older system that's been sitting in the back for a while. There are numerous places that give guides to the serial codes (plus IIRC the HDMI units are a dead giveaway) to figure out which chipset is in the system.

Biggest recommendation I'd give to anyone considering a 360 right now is to NOT buy one off Ebay, Craigslist, or used from Gamestop (those vultures don't check to see if its banned or not).

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

^ I'll respond to that later, but here's some similar news. Not to change topic, but I'd like your opinion on the matter (and anyone else's).

N4G.com : Man Planning to Sue Nintendo Over Disabled Wii Homebrew Channel

[Lurch1982]

I'm not even sure if any remotely good lawyer would touch that case. First off, the EULA:

Your Wii Console and the Wii Network Service are not designed for use with unauthorized software, services, or devices or non-licensed accessories, and you may not use any of these with your Wii Console or the Wii Network Service. Such use may be illegal, voids any warranty, and is a breach of this agreement. Such use may also lead to injury to you or others or cause performance issues or damage to your Wii Console or the Wii Network Service. We (and our licensees and distributors) are not responsible for damage or loss caused by unauthorized software, services or devices or non-licensed accessories. We may take steps to disable or delete any unauthorized software, services or device installed in your Wii Console, for example, by detecting and disabling them through the Wii Network Service and/or game software. If we detect unauthorized software, services, or devices, your access to the Wii Network Service may be disabled and/or the Wii Console or games may be unplayable.

They're nicer than Microsoft. Granted, the Wii's online capability is nowhere near the Xbox's either.

On top of that, the idiot's whining about not unlocking a character in Mario Kart Wii (Rosalina btw) is nice forum ranting, but garbage legally. If they wanted to, they could include Mario Kart characters in every first party game. Tough crap, you know? Its like saying you hacked an Xbox 1 game to open up the DLC that was hiding on the disc (Project Gotham, some of the Clancy games, etc). It doesn't really matter why you hacked it. They can disable it or ban you from their network because you violated the agreement.

And FWIW you can unlock Rosalina either via the save game or by getting 1 star in all 8 Mirror Mode Cups. Not knowing how to gamefaqs ftl.

[Robotazy]

Eh, I got mine in 2005.

3-years do nothing, so it's either buy a new one, or sell the games and get thier PS3 counterparts (except Banjo-Kazooie, but that's not worth a whole system honestly)

[Lurch1982]

Run the serial/console ID through the warranty page anyway. It depends on when they start counting the warranty (the 3 year went into effect after 2005, so you might be covered).

[Sim Kid]

This, children, is why you don't just scroll to the bottom of the Terms of Usage and say "yes" without reading them. Because then you have NO right to complain about being punished when you violate them.

Do you think I'd be able to actually get away with this in court? I didn't know it was illegal to drive 90mph when the "Speed limit" said "30", so why should I pay for that speeding ticket!

[Loot]

I plead the Chewbacca Defense.

[Deku Trii]

Originally Posted by Sim Kid

This, children, is why you don't just scroll to the bottom of the Terms of Usage and say "yes" without reading them. Because then you have NO right to complain about being punished when you violate them.

Do you think I'd be able to actually get away with this in court? I didn't know it was illegal to drive 90mph when the "Speed limit" said "30", so why should I pay for that speeding ticket!

Technically, you probably have less right to complain if you do read the ToS.

[Valigarmander]

Microsoft Denies Claim of 1 Million Banned 360s

Right around last week's release of Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, Microsoft issued a wave of Xbox Live bans, with some reports saying they totaled between 600,000 to as many as 1 million modified consoles. While the extent of the bans was certainly immense (a glance at Craigslist following the culling proved that conclusively enough), Xbox Live general manager Marc Whitten denies the number was as stratospheric as a million.

"We didn't release the number. I cannot explain to you why people would think it was a million people. It wasn't a million people," Whitten said in an interview with VentureBeat, where he also called the process of banning XBL users a "cat and mouse game."

"These were people that were pirating software," Whitten explained. "We try to keep sanctity of life from a safety and anti-cheating perspective and we protect our partners...I think we do a really good job understanding what people are doing on the system. That applies to intellectual property (piracy) and how we treat the community in terms of harassment. We are committed to making it better and better."

So it looks like we'll never know exactly how many users were recently banned, but we know at least that it was less than 1 million pirates and/or verbal harassers.