FINAL DESTINATION - Page 3 - VGF

That Guy · 05-11-2008, 06:38 PM

Guys, the problem isn't "noitemsfoxonlyfinaldestination" its the ******s that whine when you want to play with items on a good stage and scream NO MY SKILL

get it right, and stop trying to yell at ML.

Ike · 05-11-2008, 06:39 PM

^^Since when did I mention anything about fairness? I'm pretty sure I didn't, but that's just me. If I did, please, point out the spot where I specifically mentioned fairness.

**S1x** · 05-11-2008, 07:41 PM

This is pure copypasta from something I typed up before that hopefully explains a few things here. Most examples are from SSBM.

To start, for all "casual" players:
- If you're not going to have matches with actual stakes, go to a top-level tournament, or even go to a local tournament, most of this will never apply to you. Not even tiers. There's no point in going on about something that doesn't affect you.
- If you keep mentioning people that refuse to change settings no matter what type of match it is and whine relentlessly when you do turn some stuff on, there's no argument about that, we all hate those kinds of people. However, a lot of very good players aren't like that at all. Several top players will gladly have a match with items or certain stages. (And very likely, they'll still win.)
- The experienced players don't want to ban stuff. They do this to lessen certain random factors or issues. Do you really want to see somebody chasing another person for an entire match?

And to all the elitist "hardcore" players: (even though I don't think that many are on here, if any)
- If somebody does prefer to play with items or certain stage, it doesn't make them lesser than you automatically.
- It's not like every single match is a life-or-death big-stuff-at-stake contest. Try various things.

Why items get banned for tournament matches

Of course all games have elements of luck or randomness in them. For things like golf, poker, and even Mario Kart, it's pretty much tied into the game and it has to be accepted. In the SSB games, though, you have the option to get rid of that factor, which makes those more serious matches demonstrate skill more instead of whose opponent nailed an unexpected bomb.

Exploding capsules, boxes, and all that nice stuff... you never know when those will come and screw you up when you're right in the middle of something. I have constantly charged up a smash attack and seen a capsule appear in front of me. I pray for it to not self-destruct on me and behold, I get sent sky high. This can happen even if only a couple items are on and set to Very Low.

If items appeared in set places instead of anywhere on the field, items may not be banned.

Why stages are banned for tournament matches

Despite what some may think, stages don't get banned because "waah something bad happened to me on that one I hate it". Many stages get banned because they give certain characters too much of an advantage. Some characters would never be able to catch up to a faster character running away on a bigger stage. On some stages, the player who defends has an advantage over the one that charges. If this is the case, neither player will want to approach. And some stages have weird random things, and the rule for items applies. (Poke Floats was never banned, since there's always a set pattern and good sized field)

Why not just ban [character]?

Doesn't get rid of the problem; that moves the problem to the next fastest character or whoever is also good with certain techniques.

Why not just ban [technique]?

This gets ridiculously hard to enforce. Try inventing a rule saying "Fox cannot laser spam". What exactly does this mean? He can't fire more than 10 at a time? He can't run away and fire from a distance? How much distance? He can't shoot a single laser at all? Would you really disqualify somebody from a tournament just because they wanted to play as Fox and accidentally pressed B? And if you try doing a limit, people will keep pushing that limit very close. It doesn't work well.

This isn't everything. It's the main things that were on my mind, though.

Summary: If I want to have a serious match with somebody, I turn certain stuff off for the reasons above. If winning doesn't matter as much and I just want to have fun or fool around, I don't. Simple, right?

Sir Delicious Rightfoot · 05-11-2008, 08:05 PM

The more important point is:

Who cares?

Laugh at the video, move the hell on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikhail Gorbachev

uh oh not the life card
I don't think someone can 'waste their life' doing what they think is fun.

I'm not saying that if you play for that, you don't have a life, I'm saying don't take it to the extreme.

Tad Venture · 05-12-2008, 11:39 AM

S1x, have my babies.

Chunky Kong12345 · 05-12-2008, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caput Equi XVI

Are you trying to piss me off?

No, I'm defining the term for people who don't know about it. It might've helped in Blake's situation.

**Perrin Aybara** · 05-12-2008, 04:19 PM

I am confused.-jay

Tazy_10 · 05-12-2008, 05:35 PM

It's Fox's Fault.

YOU ARE MY FRIENDS · 05-12-2008, 05:56 PM

Smash Bros. Tournaments are serious business.

Metal Man · 05-12-2008, 06:28 PM

Of course, I'm not bothered by any of the rule enforcement going on with the tourney stuff...

...But I kill hordes of people with ROB, with or without items, so I may be biased. I need to fight some of you guys, too!

Tad Venture · 05-12-2008, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metal Man

Of course, I'm not bothered by any of the rule enforcement going on with the tourney stuff...

...But I kill hordes of people with ROB, with or without items, so I may be biased. I need to fight some of you guys, too!

damn, ROB + Olimar = ROB wins.

We'll have to fight sometime, though.

Sir Delicious Rightfoot · 05-13-2008, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caput Equi XVI

damn, ROB + Olimar = ROB wins.

We'll have to fight sometime, though.

Notify me, so that I can hand you your own ass after Ike or Wario slash or bite it off, respectively.

Tad Venture · 05-13-2008, 10:56 AM

Have you guys fought S1x?

YOU ARE MY FRIENDS · 05-13-2008, 03:37 PM

I have. I think I won a match. Or at least, it was extremely close.

**S1x** · 05-13-2008, 07:11 PM

However, I don't think I ever let loose my G&W or Yoshi on you.

Tad Venture · 05-13-2008, 08:31 PM

yeah, S1x only shows his G&W and Yoshi to people who are worthy.

YOU ARE MY FRIENDS · 05-13-2008, 08:43 PM

I think he used Yoshi, but not G&W. Vs. Yoshi was my worst match so far in Smash after ML's Olimar pwning the hell out of my Pit.

**L007 is Undecided** · 05-13-2008, 08:55 PM

I'm fairly certain I'm 50-50 with S1x right now. Of course, I haven't even played Brawl for, like, a month now.

Sir Delicious Rightfoot · 05-13-2008, 09:06 PM

So uh, anyone up for a VGF Brawl battle tonight?

Metal Man · 05-13-2008, 09:15 PM

Count me in.

FC: 4210-3702-8545 (Metal)

05-12-2008, 05:56 PM	#49
YOU ARE MY FRIENDS JESUS SAID Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: ON A FRIENDSHIP TREK (Panfan) Gender: Posts: 11,161 Thanks: 481 Thanked 842 Times in 602 Posts Blog Entries: 12 Points: 4,182.01 Bank: 21,897.47 Total Points: 26,079.48 Donate	Smash Bros. Tournaments are serious business. __________________ L2R: Alex, Max, Bitch, Ethan, I'm not sure she has a name.

05-13-2008, 03:37 PM	#54
YOU ARE MY FRIENDS JESUS SAID Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: ON A FRIENDSHIP TREK (Panfan) Gender: Posts: 11,161 Thanks: 481 Thanked 842 Times in 602 Posts Blog Entries: 12 Points: 4,182.01 Bank: 21,897.47 Total Points: 26,079.48 Donate	I have. I think I won a match. Or at least, it was extremely close. __________________ L2R: Alex, Max, Bitch, Ethan, I'm not sure she has a name.

05-13-2008, 08:43 PM	#57
YOU ARE MY FRIENDS JESUS SAID Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: ON A FRIENDSHIP TREK (Panfan) Gender: Posts: 11,161 Thanks: 481 Thanked 842 Times in 602 Posts Blog Entries: 12 Points: 4,182.01 Bank: 21,897.47 Total Points: 26,079.48 Donate	I think he used Yoshi, but not G&W. Vs. Yoshi was my worst match so far in Smash after ML's Olimar pwning the hell out of my Pit. __________________ L2R: Alex, Max, Bitch, Ethan, I'm not sure she has a name.

05-13-2008, 09:06 PM	#59
Sir Delicious Rightfoot I'MA FIRIN MAH ADVENTURE BUS! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Birmingham, AL Gender: Posts: 13,135 Thanks: 941 Thanked 660 Times in 385 Posts Points: 43,615.35 Bank: 510,958.47 Total Points: 554,573.82 Donate	So uh, anyone up for a VGF Brawl battle tonight? __________________ Season 1- Coming to a Youtube near you....whenever

05-11-2008, 06:38 PM	#41
That Guy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: lo-ca-tion; Noun- 1. a place or situation occupied: That house is in a fine location Gender: Posts: 5,232 Thanks: 279 Thanked 144 Times in 108 Posts Points: 15,681.72 Bank: 27,447.41 Total Points: 43,129.13 Donate	Guys, the problem isn't "noitemsfoxonlyfinaldestination" its the ******s that whine when you want to play with items on a good stage and scream NO MY SKILL get it right, and stop trying to yell at ML.

05-11-2008, 06:39 PM	#42
Ike Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I don't know. Where do I live? Gender: Posts: 5,648 Thanks: 7 Thanked 159 Times in 112 Posts Points: 6,543.39 Bank: 185,327.42 Total Points: 191,870.81 Donate	^^Since when did I mention anything about fairness? I'm pretty sure I didn't, but that's just me. If I did, please, point out the spot where I specifically mentioned fairness.

05-11-2008, 07:41 PM	#43
S1x VGF RPG Mod Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Either over there or right here Gender: Posts: 4,765 Thanks: 14 Thanked 175 Times in 56 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 46,962.69 Bank: 26,962.19 Total Points: 73,924.88 Donate	This is pure copypasta from something I typed up before that hopefully explains a few things here. Most examples are from SSBM. To start, for all "casual" players: - If you're not going to have matches with actual stakes, go to a top-level tournament, or even go to a local tournament, most of this will never apply to you. Not even tiers. There's no point in going on about something that doesn't affect you. - If you keep mentioning people that refuse to change settings no matter what type of match it is and whine relentlessly when you do turn some stuff on, there's no argument about that, we all hate those kinds of people. However, a lot of very good players aren't like that at all. Several top players will gladly have a match with items or certain stages. (And very likely, they'll still win.) - The experienced players don't want to ban stuff. They do this to lessen certain random factors or issues. Do you really want to see somebody chasing another person for an entire match? And to all the elitist "hardcore" players: (even though I don't think that many are on here, if any) - If somebody does prefer to play with items or certain stage, it doesn't make them lesser than you automatically. - It's not like every single match is a life-or-death big-stuff-at-stake contest. Try various things. Why items get banned for tournament matches Of course all games have elements of luck or randomness in them. For things like golf, poker, and even Mario Kart, it's pretty much tied into the game and it has to be accepted. In the SSB games, though, you have the option to get rid of that factor, which makes those more serious matches demonstrate skill more instead of whose opponent nailed an unexpected bomb. Exploding capsules, boxes, and all that nice stuff... you never know when those will come and screw you up when you're right in the middle of something. I have constantly charged up a smash attack and seen a capsule appear in front of me. I pray for it to not self-destruct on me and behold, I get sent sky high. This can happen even if only a couple items are on and set to Very Low. If items appeared in set places instead of anywhere on the field, items may not be banned. Why stages are banned for tournament matches Despite what some may think, stages don't get banned because "waah something bad happened to me on that one I hate it". Many stages get banned because they give certain characters too much of an advantage. Some characters would never be able to catch up to a faster character running away on a bigger stage. On some stages, the player who defends has an advantage over the one that charges. If this is the case, neither player will want to approach. And some stages have weird random things, and the rule for items applies. (Poke Floats was never banned, since there's always a set pattern and good sized field) Why not just ban [character]? Doesn't get rid of the problem; that moves the problem to the next fastest character or whoever is also good with certain techniques. Why not just ban [technique]? This gets ridiculously hard to enforce. Try inventing a rule saying "Fox cannot laser spam". What exactly does this mean? He can't fire more than 10 at a time? He can't run away and fire from a distance? How much distance? He can't shoot a single laser at all? Would you really disqualify somebody from a tournament just because they wanted to play as Fox and accidentally pressed B? And if you try doing a limit, people will keep pushing that limit very close. It doesn't work well. This isn't everything. It's the main things that were on my mind, though. Summary: If I want to have a serious match with somebody, I turn certain stuff off for the reasons above. If winning doesn't matter as much and I just want to have fun or fool around, I don't. Simple, right?

05-12-2008, 11:39 AM	#45
Tad Venture Moderator of Awesome Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Location, Location. Gender: Posts: 23,512 Thanks: 488 Thanked 640 Times in 376 Posts Points: 81,110.41 Bank: 96,445.91 Total Points: 177,556.32 Donate	S1x, have my babies.

05-12-2008, 04:19 PM	#47
Perrin Aybara LLLUUUCCCCCCAAA!!! Ban HotD Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Alone....so terribly alone... Some... where... out... there... dies Gender: Posts: 11,770 Thanks: 169 Thanked 325 Times in 174 Posts Points: 61,380.67 Bank: 139,797.14 Total Points: 201,177.81 Donate	I am confused.-jay

05-12-2008, 05:35 PM	#48
Tazy_10 Forum Host Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Tazy is a bad Mafia Player. I'm Serious. Gender: Posts: 7,567 Thanks: 158 Thanked 268 Times in 208 Posts Blog Entries: 5 Points: 19,211.24 Bank: 27,192.19 Total Points: 46,403.42 Donate	It's Fox's Fault.

05-12-2008, 06:28 PM	#50
Metal Man Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Gender: Posts: 6,712 Thanks: 74 Thanked 191 Times in 131 Posts Points: 8,342.22 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 8,342.22 Donate	Of course, I'm not bothered by any of the rule enforcement going on with the tourney stuff... ...But I kill hordes of people with ROB, with or without items, so I may be biased. I need to fight some of you guys, too!

05-13-2008, 10:56 AM	#53
Tad Venture Moderator of Awesome Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Location, Location. Gender: Posts: 23,512 Thanks: 488 Thanked 640 Times in 376 Posts Points: 81,110.41 Bank: 96,445.91 Total Points: 177,556.32 Donate	Have you guys fought S1x?

05-13-2008, 07:11 PM	#55
S1x VGF RPG Mod Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Either over there or right here Gender: Posts: 4,765 Thanks: 14 Thanked 175 Times in 56 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 46,962.69 Bank: 26,962.19 Total Points: 73,924.88 Donate	However, I don't think I ever let loose my G&W or Yoshi on you.

05-13-2008, 08:31 PM	#56
Tad Venture Moderator of Awesome Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Location, Location. Gender: Posts: 23,512 Thanks: 488 Thanked 640 Times in 376 Posts Points: 81,110.41 Bank: 96,445.91 Total Points: 177,556.32 Donate	yeah, S1x only shows his G&W and Yoshi to people who are worthy.

05-13-2008, 08:55 PM	#58
L007 is Undecided Axe Shreddin' Mod Join Date: May 2001 Location: Farmerland. Gender: Posts: 7,343 Thanks: 90 Thanked 292 Times in 172 Posts Points: 2,390.50 Bank: 16,603.91 Total Points: 18,994.41 Donate	I'm fairly certain I'm 50-50 with S1x right now. Of course, I haven't even played Brawl for, like, a month now.

05-13-2008, 09:15 PM	#60
Metal Man Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Gender: Posts: 6,712 Thanks: 74 Thanked 191 Times in 131 Posts Points: 8,342.22 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 8,342.22 Donate	Count me in. FC: 4210-3702-8545 (Metal)