OK, lets talk HD-DVD/BluRay

**Sean P Kelly** · 05-17-2006, 10:31 PM

I have been very uneasy about the new high definition DVD formats.

Since it already has the points I want to make, the following is a quote I made in a manifesto on technological obsolescence I wrote for school last year:

Quote:

Since it’s introduction in 1997, the DVD not only virtually rendered the VHS tape obsolete, but it also became the most successful consumer product ever. Nonetheless, companies are already well underway on creating High Definition DVD systems, such as Sony’s BluRay. The companies never really took the opportunity to enjoy DVDs success. Instead of celebrating the fact that DVDs have become the most successful consumer product ever, they instead decided to go and create an “even better” system, which would effectively render the existing DVD players useless. Think of how much money you would have to spend when HD-DVDs come out. First, you have to buy the new HD-DVD player and because there are two competing HD-DVD technologies (BluRay and Toshiba’s HD-DVD), that may be hard; since one of those new technologies are bound to go obsolete faster than the other (though recent evidence, such as studio support, suggest BluRay will come out on top). In addition, you will probably have to purchase a new fancy High Definition TV, so you will be able to have full advantage of the HD-DVD technology. Also, don’t forget that you will have to lay down money to purchase the new HD-DVDs for the player. Sure, your current discs will probably still work, but who knows how long they will be supported and you know for sure that they would not have as nice a picture.

I just don't like thinking that I spent HUNDREDS of dollars on DVDs over the last few years and that they may be useless in just a few years.

The change from VHS to DVD was a big leap - from magnetic tape to compact optical disc (I say compact because of the existence of laserdiscs for years before DVD).

What's the difference between DVD and HD-DVD? A better picture?

I for one plan to stay far away from High Definition DVDs (unless of course I'm forced to because of....you know...my current collection becoming obsolete)

***CaptHayfever*** · 05-17-2006, 11:15 PM

The words "graphical plateau" spring to mind.

Oh, I don't doubt that HD-DVD* and Blu-Ray will be clearer pictures than standard DVD. But not relevantly clearer. Either with this iteration or the next, we will hit the graphical plateau, the point where the extra clarity can no longer be detected by the human eye, or at least no longer be cared about, especially by the nearsighted.

The other selling point on these buggers is more data space. Thing is, though, I don't know any movies that require 2 discs anyway (except The Cure for Insomnia, but that's too long for even Blu-Ray anyhow).

In the meanwhile, we're going to be paying more for an image improvement we won't notice and bonus features that we would've gotten anyway on a second disc. And no, the extra 20 seconds to switch out my DVD player is not worth the hundreds more dollars.
If Sony & MS want to take advantage of the new formats for their consoles, fine, great, good for them, it will only expand the games' possibilities, and that's a good thing. But it won't do jack squat for movies.

*(which should be pronounced H-doubleD-VD because no one says N-A-A-C-P or A-A-A)

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

Lurch1982 · 05-18-2006, 03:48 AM

The format shift is being kickstarted at least two years before it should be starting. This is a similar to the VHS/Betamax wars they had in the 80s (I'm likely the only one who actually remembers it). Sony's Blu-ray technology is actually superior in terms of quality and storage, while Toshiba's HD-DVD* format is more economical.

Its essentially going to come down to simple economics. The current prices for HDDVD players are at about 500 bucks, while Bluray players are hovering around 1000. Bluray discs would require a complete overhaul for dvd production factories, meaning a higher initial cost and high costs for individual movies. To my knowledge, HD-DVD production is much closer to the standard DVD production and would only require upgrades to production centers. The biggest benefit is HD-DVDs allow for the manufacture of dual-sided discs, with the HD format on one side and the DVD format on the other (similar to Dualdisc CD/DVD hybrid thing). Ironically, Sony didn't learn from the Betamax debacle, and they're banking the entire format on the PS3's success.

Biggest problem with the format jump is they're beating HDTVs to the punch. In order to get the higher definition and better sound quality, you need an HDTV set. While the prices on HDTVs are dropping, they aren't dropping fast enough and they aren't pletiful enough on lowend sets to even warrant a format shift. They needed to make sure that HDTVs took over at all aspects of the price spectrum before pushing for a new disc format.

Gradually, I think HD-DVD will win out down the road simply due to costs. The costs will be down to tolerable levels (sub 200 USD range) much sooner than Bluray and the discs themselves should be cheaper in the longrun. Also, the dualdisc movies are much more friendly to a transitional phase than Bluray is.

Regardless, the HDDVD and Bluray players are backwards compatible. They won't give you the same effect as having the fullblown benefits of using a disc of that format, but they will be popped into an enhanced definition mode similar to using a high-end DVD player.

I don't think they'll hit a graphical plateau with this, at least not yet. There's a phenominal difference between SDTV, EDTV, and HDTV that's clearly noticable.

*Its pronounced H-D-D-V-D because you don't pronouns SACD as Sacked, VHS as Vish, HDTVs as Hud-tee-vees, CDs as Cuds, or DVDs as Dvvvvdz. :-)

**Sean P Kelly** · 05-18-2006, 07:50 AM

HDTVs are another thing.

I've heard that some of the new fangled TVs (like Plasma screens) may only last for about 10 years before the screen burns out.

**Crazyswordsman** · 05-18-2006, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptHayfever

*(which should be pronounced H-doubleD-VD because no one says N-A-A-C-P or A-A-A)

I say A-A-A. At least when it comes to the car A-A-A (Batteries are still "Triple A's").

If people are going to release "HD-DVDs" in a few years, I probably won't make the switch for another few years. I always wait a few years before upgrading, so I can get an upgrade at a good value. -CSM

Lurch1982 · 05-18-2006, 07:53 PM

Well, they said similar things to the first bigscreen televisions, and they exceeded the timelimit. Then again, if you can afford to buy a 42" plasma screen, you probably aren't going to be too worried about buying a new one in ten years because you have the cash to spend and obviously care about keeping up with the newest things. On the same note, I have TVs I bought in 1997 that are starting to crap out almost ten years later, so I'm not too sure its any different across the spectrum.

HDDVDs and Bluray players are already out (though are apparently backordered or something). There is a limited selection of movies out or hitting soon, so the two formats should be hitting roughly in june (when the first line of Bluray flicks hit the shelves).

***CaptHayfever*** · 05-18-2006, 10:22 PM

Quote:

I don't think they'll hit a graphical plateau with this, at least not yet.

True, but it will come soon, within the next generation or two of film media (and it will hit home video long before it hits gaming).

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

Lurch1982 · 05-19-2006, 03:12 AM

Depends. I'm sure people in the 50s thought nothing could surpass the first color TVs, and I thought 20 years ago that nothing could top the first real big-screen TVs that hit. Even 10 years ago, i thought flat screen (not panel) TVs were amazing because they had a better picture and less glare. I have enough faith in companies like Sony's attempt to jam overpriced technology down our throats to believe we'll hit some plateau.

Falco53 · 05-22-2006, 02:00 PM

I've always thought how cool it would be to have an entire television show on one disc. I was also hoping that would drive costs down a little later down the road, but sure ain't counting on it.

But then I realized something: by the time HD is the standard, television in general will be getting closer and closer to a Tivo-esque system, making discs obsolete. Probably.

I'm glad to hear that my old DVDs (my collection has grown in the past two years) won't be completely outmoded in three years.

05-18-2006, 03:48 AM	#3
Lurch1982 Senior Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Katrinaland, USA Gender: Posts: 9,228 Thanks: 120 Thanked 220 Times in 131 Posts Points: 31,776.47 Bank: 246,742.89 Total Points: 278,519.36 Donate	The format shift is being kickstarted at least two years before it should be starting. This is a similar to the VHS/Betamax wars they had in the 80s (I'm likely the only one who actually remembers it). Sony's Blu-ray technology is actually superior in terms of quality and storage, while Toshiba's HD-DVD* format is more economical. Its essentially going to come down to simple economics. The current prices for HDDVD players are at about 500 bucks, while Bluray players are hovering around 1000. Bluray discs would require a complete overhaul for dvd production factories, meaning a higher initial cost and high costs for individual movies. To my knowledge, HD-DVD production is much closer to the standard DVD production and would only require upgrades to production centers. The biggest benefit is HD-DVDs allow for the manufacture of dual-sided discs, with the HD format on one side and the DVD format on the other (similar to Dualdisc CD/DVD hybrid thing). Ironically, Sony didn't learn from the Betamax debacle, and they're banking the entire format on the PS3's success. Biggest problem with the format jump is they're beating HDTVs to the punch. In order to get the higher definition and better sound quality, you need an HDTV set. While the prices on HDTVs are dropping, they aren't dropping fast enough and they aren't pletiful enough on lowend sets to even warrant a format shift. They needed to make sure that HDTVs took over at all aspects of the price spectrum before pushing for a new disc format. Gradually, I think HD-DVD will win out down the road simply due to costs. The costs will be down to tolerable levels (sub 200 USD range) much sooner than Bluray and the discs themselves should be cheaper in the longrun. Also, the dualdisc movies are much more friendly to a transitional phase than Bluray is. Regardless, the HDDVD and Bluray players are backwards compatible. They won't give you the same effect as having the fullblown benefits of using a disc of that format, but they will be popped into an enhanced definition mode similar to using a high-end DVD player. I don't think they'll hit a graphical plateau with this, at least not yet. There's a phenominal difference between SDTV, EDTV, and HDTV that's clearly noticable. Its pronounced H-D-D-V-D because you don't pronouns SACD as Sacked, VHS as Vish, HDTVs as Hud-tee-vees, CDs as Cuds, or DVDs as Dvvvvdz. :-) Last edited by Lurch1982; 05-18-2006 at 04:12 AM.*

05-17-2006, 11:15 PM	#2
*CaptHayfever* Smash Supermod Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: (n) - the place where I am Gender: Posts: 19,789 Thanks: 239 Thanked 943 Times in 574 Posts Points: 117,707.88 Bank: 1,847.49 Total Points: 119,555.37 Donate	The words "graphical plateau" spring to mind. Oh, I don't doubt that HD-DVD* and Blu-Ray will be clearer pictures than standard DVD. But not relevantly clearer. Either with this iteration or the next, we will hit the graphical plateau, the point where the extra clarity can no longer be detected by the human eye, or at least no longer be cared about, especially by the nearsighted. The other selling point on these buggers is more data space. Thing is, though, I don't know any movies that require 2 discs anyway (except The Cure for Insomnia, but that's too long for even Blu-Ray anyhow). In the meanwhile, we're going to be paying more for an image improvement we won't notice and bonus features that we would've gotten anyway on a second disc. And no, the extra 20 seconds to switch out my DVD player is not worth the hundreds more dollars. If Sony & MS want to take advantage of the new formats for their consoles, fine, great, good for them, it will only expand the games' possibilities, and that's a good thing. But it won't do jack squat for movies. *(which should be pronounced H-doubleD-VD because no one says N-A-A-C-P or A-A-A) And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

05-18-2006, 07:50 AM	#4
Sean P Kelly SMBHQ Mod Movies Mod Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Gender: Posts: 3,350 Thanks: 9 Thanked 45 Times in 35 Posts Points: 196,116.68 Bank: 115,491.08 Total Points: 311,607.75 Donate	HDTVs are another thing. I've heard that some of the new fangled TVs (like Plasma screens) may only last for about 10 years before the screen burns out.

05-18-2006, 07:53 PM	#6
Lurch1982 Senior Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Katrinaland, USA Gender: Posts: 9,228 Thanks: 120 Thanked 220 Times in 131 Posts Points: 31,776.47 Bank: 246,742.89 Total Points: 278,519.36 Donate	Well, they said similar things to the first bigscreen televisions, and they exceeded the timelimit. Then again, if you can afford to buy a 42" plasma screen, you probably aren't going to be too worried about buying a new one in ten years because you have the cash to spend and obviously care about keeping up with the newest things. On the same note, I have TVs I bought in 1997 that are starting to crap out almost ten years later, so I'm not too sure its any different across the spectrum. HDDVDs and Bluray players are already out (though are apparently backordered or something). There is a limited selection of movies out or hitting soon, so the two formats should be hitting roughly in june (when the first line of Bluray flicks hit the shelves).

05-19-2006, 03:12 AM	#8
Lurch1982 Senior Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Katrinaland, USA Gender: Posts: 9,228 Thanks: 120 Thanked 220 Times in 131 Posts Points: 31,776.47 Bank: 246,742.89 Total Points: 278,519.36 Donate	Depends. I'm sure people in the 50s thought nothing could surpass the first color TVs, and I thought 20 years ago that nothing could top the first real big-screen TVs that hit. Even 10 years ago, i thought flat screen (not panel) TVs were amazing because they had a better picture and less glare. I have enough faith in companies like Sony's attempt to jam overpriced technology down our throats to believe we'll hit some plateau.

05-22-2006, 02:00 PM	#9
Falco53 Senior Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Happy World Land Posts: 2,744 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 6,622.47 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 7,122.47 Donate	I've always thought how cool it would be to have an entire television show on one disc. I was also hoping that would drive costs down a little later down the road, but sure ain't counting on it. But then I realized something: by the time HD is the standard, television in general will be getting closer and closer to a Tivo-esque system, making discs obsolete. Probably. I'm glad to hear that my old DVDs (my collection has grown in the past two years) won't be completely outmoded in three years.