Spider-Man 3 - Page 2

i thot u wer my frend · 05-07-2007, 03:07 PM

The three words that I thought most in the move are the following: "What an ass."

I basically said that about everybody that wasn't Sandman.

Also, Harry reminded me of Rocket Racer, but not as lame.

hferg · 05-08-2007, 07:38 PM

someone said the exact same thing on Meleenium! maybe it was you....

***CaptHayfever*** · 05-10-2007, 02:15 AM

I haven't seen it yet, but this IMDb article proved interesting:

Quote:

George Lucas has joined the major newspaper critics in their negative appraisal of Spider-Man 3. In an interview with FoxNews.com's Roger Friedman, Lucas said, "It's a silly movie. ... There just isn't much there. Once you take it all apart, there's not much story, is there?" Over the weekend, Spider-Man 3 surged ahead of Lucas's Star Wars' episode Revenge of the Sith to take the record for the biggest weekend box-office record. Star Wars was also criticized as being "silly," Lucas noted. "But it wasn't."

Well, if anyone can say objectively & conclusively that a Star Wars movie wasn't silly, it's George Lucas. There's no conflict of interest there at all.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

i thot u wer my frend · 05-10-2007, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hferg

someone said the exact same thing on Meleenium! maybe it was you....

No, that's my evil twin, Ranfan.

Inferno Dragon · 05-12-2007, 05:01 AM

well I've heard various things but the three most likely villains that I've heard of to get in spidy 4 are Venom Lizzard and Mysterio. I've also heard that Raimi won't be directing the next three after the fan backlash of what he tried to do to Venom. but the way I see it will be something like this for the next three.

spidy 4: Doc. Conners turns into the lizzard (finally) and mysterio shows up later with spidy and lizzard facing off against mysterio near the end but before they team up spidy will be facing the lizzard.

spidy 5: the Scorpion arrives and is aided by electro, spidy has his work cut out for him this time.

spidy 6: Venom returns and this time he's got carnage to help him, but about half way through Carnage breaks off on his own and causes countless deaths. venom realizes that his other must be stopped so spidy and venom work together to take down carnage.

I feel that with carnage as the final villain of the film series they could tie up alot of loose ends and end it with a great battle that would overshadow ane of the battles that have happened with the movies so far.

Link CDLVI · 05-12-2007, 10:21 AM

Meh, the movie was alright, I really think it could have been better. There was alot of action, but in my prespective, it was kinda good. I'd give it 3 3/4 stars.

**Wyborn** · 05-12-2007, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inferno Dragon

well I've heard various things but the three most likely villains that I've heard of to get in spidy 4 are Venom Lizzard and Mysterio. I've also heard that Raimi won't be directing the next three after the fan backlash of what he tried to do to Venom. but the way I see it will be something like this for the next three.

spidy 4: Doc. Conners turns into the lizzard (finally) and mysterio shows up later with spidy and lizzard facing off against mysterio near the end but before they team up spidy will be facing the lizzard.

spidy 5: the Scorpion arrives and is aided by electro, spidy has his work cut out for him this time.

spidy 6: Venom returns and this time he's got carnage to help him, but about half way through Carnage breaks off on his own and causes countless deaths. venom realizes that his other must be stopped so spidy and venom work together to take down carnage.

I feel that with carnage as the final villain of the film series they could tie up alot of loose ends and end it with a great battle that would overshadow ane of the battles that have happened with the movies so far.

No. There is not a strong enough word in the English language to say how bad it would be to end this series with something as stupid as Carnage. Even worse is the lack of Osborn in this prediction.

PlotTwistMastermindFore · 05-12-2007, 05:37 PM

Okay. I just read Last Hunt. That definately would make an effing awesome movie. Wyborn's right; Kraven is cool. The cartoon officially blows for ruining an awesome character.

Also, I agree: where the hell was Osborn and his Sinister Six? Shame.

VWF_champion · 05-12-2007, 07:59 PM

You guys wanna know a Spider-man story arc that would work terrible as a movie? (even though it 100% will not happen.) Maximum Carnage. It won't happen, but i can name 5 reasons, if that would happen, of why a movie adaptation would be terrible.

1. The villians would be butchered like ****. Besides, Carnage, as Lurch says, is a medicore villian with no depth, and he would just be horrible.

2. The major Sub-plots in the other spiderman movies would be dissed, or they would be used, but get like, one second of importance in the plot.

3. Venom would have to return, and chances are, well, he wouldn't make any sense to return after he dies. Plus, with one aapearance, it's enough.

4. There was like, a hundred characters in that storyline, and Marvel (or whoever makes the movies) would spend a lot of money on low-budget actors nobody has ever heard about.

5. A Medicore, and useless storyline would be wasted as a SpiderMan movie, so it would be pointless to use money to make a movie that wil mostourously flop in the Box office.

Like i said, it will not happen, but Maximum Carnage would make a terribe SpiderMan movie. (No flames please.)

Inferno Dragon · 05-13-2007, 12:08 AM

this is about as bad as the PPR forum I really think that movie 6 should have the best battle of all the 6 movies and battles involving spidy, venom, and carnage usually span more than one issue that's how crazy those battles get.

also in the comics Venom and Carnage are almost the only two villains who outclass spidy in every way and should win because of the following: they don't set off his spider sense, they're stronger, faster, they know what he knows, they know who he is under the mask, carnage can craft weapons from his hands, carnage is immune to sonics, venom's webbing is stronger than spidy's and carnage is so freakin powerful that it takes both Spidy and Venom to take him down.

even with all this stacked against him spidy is still able to beat them but it drains him when he does fight them.

I have two videos for those who are still against the symbiotes. these three videos will give you a little insight into them, really they will educate you.

venom 101

venom 102

carnage 101

**Wyborn** · 05-13-2007, 12:23 AM

Norman Osborn knows who Peter is, is a perfect match in terms of combat prowess, knows how to break him psychologically (something Carnage and Venom wouldn't even understand), and the last battle between Spidey and Norman took them across the entirety of Manhattan - this with nothing but their fists, and involving Luke Cage. He's been Peter's darker half for thirty years, he killed Gwen Stacy broke his family, is directly or indirectly responsible for most of the major tragedies in Peter's life....I could go on. He's behind so many bad guys it's hilarious.

Venom and Carnage are intellectually bankrupt jokes who have nothing going for them: they're pure violence, no inherent value in terms of drama. They're not compelling in any way except for how violently they kill people, and that's not enough to drive a comic book or a movie. Read The Last Hunt, and you'll see twisted violence used to effect - but not by Venom and Carnage. They have no personality outside of "kill kill kill". It's boring. It's stale. It's so 90's it doesn't bear any mind nowadays.

Norman, though? He's all personality. He's the Joker for Spider-Man, only he's worse because he can plan for years instead of days, he can break Peter's mind and take his life to pieces. He was the first person to ever make Spider-Man utters the words "I will kill you," and he laughed in Peter's face when he recoiled at the reality of his own darkness.

Norman Osborn is the devil.

Venom and Carnage are jokes.

***CaptHayfever*** · 05-13-2007, 01:20 AM

^^Those videos said very little that I didn't already know, and probably absolutely nothing that Wyborn & Lurch didn't already know. I actually like Venom, but there is still no defending Carnage. Absolutely none.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

Lurch1982 · 05-13-2007, 01:35 AM

Ok douche, maybe you weren't paying attention during the movie:

Spoiler Below

Venom dies. He gets firebombed. Eddie's dead (refer to skeleton in explosion).

And its going to take more than some lardassed Youtube beta-nerd to make me think that Venom and especially Carnage are Spiderman's best villains.

Ok, take everything Wyborn said about Norman Osborn and repeat it here.

Harry's still better than either because he at least had depth to him. He was interconnected to Peter's life, and he went in and out of madness. Venom knew Peter's personal life and didn't do jack about it.

Here's the difference between the Green Goblin and Venom:

Green Goblin:

Venom:

So let's compare: Norman takes Peter's girlfriend and chucks her off a bridge, forcing Peter to either let her die on the rocks or hit her with a web and snap her neck from the sudden stop. Venom makes someone cry. There is no comparison. Woop-de-friggin-do. I make people cry constantly, am I the best villain here? Oh wait, I'm more like Norman because I drive people insane and systematically take them down point by point. Nevermind.

But at least Venom has a few redeeming qualities (none of which we saw in the movie). Venom acted as the extreme, "Id" version of Spiderman. Yet, once you took him out of that role (referring to Lethal Protector onwards), you're looking at Venom as a complete shadow of what made him great and instead turned him into an obnoxiously stereotypical 1990s antihero and put him in the same line of a whole slew of mediocre creations.

But Carnage. Oh no, Carnage is a whole lot of mediocre crap. He's the Shocker to Venom's Elektro. He's the Hobgoblin compared to the Green Goblin. You know, a knockoff "I think he'd be just as good as the real deal but really isn't" character. If Norman Osborn had Carnage's powers, the Parker family line would be severed.

But don't take my word on it: Marvel agrees with me. Because ya know, it sure as hell isn't Venom or Carnage that's been the stabbing pain in Peter Parker's side since the character was essentially created. Norman Osborn is the best Spiderman villain in the catalog.

Let's do an association: If I say Superman, you think Lex Luthur. If I say Batman, you say the Joker. If I say Captain America, you say the Red Skull. If I say the Fantastic Four, you say Dr. Doom.

Just like if I say Spiderman and you crack back with anything but the Green Goblin, you're a ****ing moron and you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground. Venom isn't even on par with Doc Ock, and Carnage is 10 levels below Venom.

Inferno Dragon · 05-13-2007, 02:42 AM

but can norman block his spider sense? no, he can't. that gives spidy an edge over norman in battle but with the symbiotes, Spidy doesn't have an edge in fact spidy is at a disadvantage when going up against them.

also yes norman is evil incarnate I will grant him that. Norman was the mastermind behind the whole clone saga and In Marvel Knights he forces spidy to commit crimes to gather parts for him so he can make new costumes for the villains and get out of prison and if spidy doesn't then norman will give the order for his hitman to kill Aunt May. and even when he is freed and becomes the goblin again he tells spidy that he's off to kill aunt may anyway. but also during this story arc the venom symbiote has bonded to Gargan A.K.A. the scorpion to create scorpi-venom.

oh but carnage is worse, because carnage has seperated and bonded several times to several hosts first it was the serial killer Cletus Kassady, then it bonded with the scarlet spider for a while during the clone saga, then back to cassady, carnage's most recent host being Silver Surfer to create Carnage Cosmic. that and the carnage symbiote is completely deranged like Kassady. after kassady lost the carnage symbiote for good he painted himself red and still thought he was carnage in that twisted little mind of his and continued his killing spree. but also, carnage gave birth to the new "good" symbiote Toxin who bonded to a police officer.

now if they were to make a movie with carnage in it then it would have to be made like a horror movie due to the fact that carnage derives pleasure from killing innocents in the most brutal ways possible and then writes "carnage rules" in the blood of his victems on the wall of the crime scene. he's a very disturbing character if you study him in depth.

Kassady had a bad childhood, he was beaten regularly and his father beat his mom to death. kassady refused to defend his father at his trial. he was put in the care of his grandmother who he killed by pushing her down the stairs. so now he was an orphan and was put in Saint Estes home for boys where his behavior caused him to be tortured by both the other orphans and the staff. Kassady then murdered the diciplinary administrator and burned down the orphanage with everyone else still inside. in his twenties, Kassady was convicted of 18 murders although he says he was responsible for more deaths than 18. while in prison cassady got the carnage symbiote when venom escaped and what little sanity that cletus kassady had was gone when he bonded with carnage, his little mind snapped and the symbiote overwhelmed him.

and just think, venom and carnage would not even exist if spidy had not gotten that alien costume during the secret wars story arc which is one of the more prominent story arcs in marvle history.

now I'm not saying that carnage and venom are better as far as the story telling aspect goes I'm just saying that we've seen the goblins in 2 of 3 of the films so far and it's getting to the point where if raimi had his way it would turn into spidy vs. goblin for movies 4, 5, and 6 and people would be sick of the goblin after seeing him in 5 of 6 movies! give someone else a shot at being a villain in the films! we still have lizzard, mysterio, electro, scorpion, F***ing Vulture and honestly I think venom should come back as a villain at least once more after raimi misused him and utterly ruined him in 3 to get a little redemption. but I still think, if done right, a fight involving spidy, venom, and carnage would be awsome up on the big screen.

Lurch1982 · 05-13-2007, 03:36 AM

Look kid, I realize that whatever learning disability you have makes Carnage the top flight villain in the history of super heros or whatever, but it doesn't escape the simple fact that you're wrong on far too many levels.

First, you haven't responded to a single reason as to why Carnage is not good. Instead, you claim "Depth" through his generic background story that was created by combining the personal backgrounds and histories of serial killers.

Second, even going at your post on full value, you have failed to show why Carnage is better than some generic killer they'd do as a one-shot. OH NOES HE HAS A SYMBIOTES SUIT. Again, he's Venom without any depth, plot, or compelling stories. The only conflict between Parker and Carnage is that "Parker is good and doesn't like Carnage randomly murdering people."

Third, just reading your post, I can already tell you're the type of halfbaked imbecile that loved Aliens vs. Predator. Yeah, blood and violence isn't cool, especially without substance. If you want that, park your ass into a bad horror movie, because that's all Carnage is.

Carnage brings 0 substance. Let's look at the Maximum Carnage crossover...the pinnacle of Carnage's existance. The series was like a dozen issues of contrived, half-thought, style-over-substance garbage. You mean to tell me that Carnage and a collection of C rate villains are going to wreck havoc and stomp all over a massive cross-section of heros, including Spiderman, half the avengers, and a herd of powerful minor heros? You're out of your box. Even then, in a full-fledged crossover, Carnage still failed to give any sembalence of a deep, coherant, anything more than "kill everything for no reason" garbage. Carnage is a poorly written, contrived, reactionary character created in response to Image/McFarlane putting blood, tits, and over the top violence in every panel. You lose any nerd street cred you have if you think Carnage is awesome.

Fourth: Norman (and Harry) may set off Parker's spider-sense, yet they still did far more damage to Parker than Venom or Carnage ever managed to.

Inferno Dragon · 05-13-2007, 07:08 AM

look the only reason I like carnage in the first place is that he looks good in a battle scene and you know what, that's the only reason I like carnage, he can put up a good fight and look good doing so, other than that I agree he sucks as a character but he can be funny so I'd put him in the catagory of serious comic relief villain. oh btw the symbiote of carnage got ripped to shreds (litterally) by some other hero when he was trying to flee earth so carnage is gone for now.

as for the Green Goblin, yeah he's great as a character, and yes he's hurt peter more than any other villain ever could I admit that. he is spidy's equal in every way and he is evil incarnate yes. he is far superior to carnage and I never said he wasn't. Goblin is almost the perfect villain when you really look at him. thing is I wasn't born until '85 I didn't get to start reading comics until around '92 and the first comic I picked up was the issue where Spiderman and Venom teamed up for the first time to fight Carnage. that was my first comic, that's why I am attached to the symbiotes so much. now that I'm older I know that carnage pales in comparrason to most of the older villains such as Green Goblin, Doc Ock, Scorpion, Mysterio, Electro, Vulture, etc.

so I understand where you're comming from lurch but my favorite villain is still venom, the original McFarlin Venom that gave spidy one of his hardest battles up to that point because he had all of spidy's powers, knowledge, and he was stronger and faster than spidy and he was the only villian up to that point that was able to block the spider sense, so Venom outclassed spidy in that origonal fight they had. that and venom was a badass about it to. (yeah, after reading the conclusion to that first carnage battle I went to my local comic shop and read through that whole venom story arc.) but to get to my point I just like Venom a bit more than the others and that's my preference.

did I miss anything lurch?

hferg · 05-13-2007, 09:55 PM

I'm suprised that nobody has mentioned a certain villian yet: KINGPIN!

Granted, since he was in Daredevil, he can't appear in Spiderman, but wouldn't someone with the resources to keep Goblin funded indefinately be at least worth a line or two?

***ZeldaGirl*** · 05-13-2007, 10:07 PM

^ I was interested in the lack of Kingpin as well, but I think that's due to the fact that it would be difficult for him to translate to the Spidey series movies (unless they crossover Daredevil and Spidey, and dear god, let's hope not).

PlotTwistMastermindFore · 05-13-2007, 10:16 PM

Yeah, but you gotta admit, Micheal Clarke Duncan as Kingpin was the only good thing about that movie. He did a well enough job portraying kingpin, so, since Daredevil's ending set up a return of Kingpin, it would make sense for him to be on the street and happen upon Spidey. Having ol' Fisk support Osborn and the Sinister Six would make a better movie that anything with Carnage in the picture.

**Wyborn** · 05-13-2007, 10:41 PM

No. Kingpin is the only role that Michael Clark Duncan isn't big enough to play.

Kingpin's so big he would have to be CGI or the fact that he can pimp-slap Spider-Man wouldn't make any sense. And we have yet to reach a point where a CGI image can look realistic enough to be a human character in a live action movie.

Kingpin's great, only problem is getting him on film. Tht and the fact that, in the public eye, he's a Daredevil villain now.

05-07-2007, 03:07 PM	#21
i thot u wer my frend JESUS SAID Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: ON A FRIENDSHIP TREK (Panfan) Gender: Posts: 11,270 Thanks: 502 Thanked 869 Times in 611 Posts Blog Entries: 13 Points: 3,503.39 Bank: 21,055.38 Total Points: 24,558.77 Donate	The three words that I thought most in the move are the following: "What an ass." I basically said that about everybody that wasn't Sandman. Also, Harry reminded me of Rocket Racer, but not as lame. __________________ Panfan reranks VH1's Top 40 Metal Songs: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genme...topic=44740744

05-13-2007, 02:42 AM	#34
Inferno Dragon Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Planet Draco Gender: Posts: 5,945 Thanks: 52 Thanked 32 Times in 25 Posts Points: 33,706.29 Bank: 20,217.77 Total Points: 53,924.07 Donate	but can norman block his spider sense? no, he can't. that gives spidy an edge over norman in battle but with the symbiotes, Spidy doesn't have an edge in fact spidy is at a disadvantage when going up against them. also yes norman is evil incarnate I will grant him that. Norman was the mastermind behind the whole clone saga and In Marvel Knights he forces spidy to commit crimes to gather parts for him so he can make new costumes for the villains and get out of prison and if spidy doesn't then norman will give the order for his hitman to kill Aunt May. and even when he is freed and becomes the goblin again he tells spidy that he's off to kill aunt may anyway. but also during this story arc the venom symbiote has bonded to Gargan A.K.A. the scorpion to create scorpi-venom. oh but carnage is worse, because carnage has seperated and bonded several times to several hosts first it was the serial killer Cletus Kassady, then it bonded with the scarlet spider for a while during the clone saga, then back to cassady, carnage's most recent host being Silver Surfer to create Carnage Cosmic. that and the carnage symbiote is completely deranged like Kassady. after kassady lost the carnage symbiote for good he painted himself red and still thought he was carnage in that twisted little mind of his and continued his killing spree. but also, carnage gave birth to the new "good" symbiote Toxin who bonded to a police officer. now if they were to make a movie with carnage in it then it would have to be made like a horror movie due to the fact that carnage derives pleasure from killing innocents in the most brutal ways possible and then writes "carnage rules" in the blood of his victems on the wall of the crime scene. he's a very disturbing character if you study him in depth. Kassady had a bad childhood, he was beaten regularly and his father beat his mom to death. kassady refused to defend his father at his trial. he was put in the care of his grandmother who he killed by pushing her down the stairs. so now he was an orphan and was put in Saint Estes home for boys where his behavior caused him to be tortured by both the other orphans and the staff. Kassady then murdered the diciplinary administrator and burned down the orphanage with everyone else still inside. in his twenties, Kassady was convicted of 18 murders although he says he was responsible for more deaths than 18. while in prison cassady got the carnage symbiote when venom escaped and what little sanity that cletus kassady had was gone when he bonded with carnage, his little mind snapped and the symbiote overwhelmed him. and just think, venom and carnage would not even exist if spidy had not gotten that alien costume during the secret wars story arc which is one of the more prominent story arcs in marvle history. now I'm not saying that carnage and venom are better as far as the story telling aspect goes I'm just saying that we've seen the goblins in 2 of 3 of the films so far and it's getting to the point where if raimi had his way it would turn into spidy vs. goblin for movies 4, 5, and 6 and people would be sick of the goblin after seeing him in 5 of 6 movies! give someone else a shot at being a villain in the films! we still have lizzard, mysterio, electro, scorpion, F**ing Vulture and honestly I think venom should come back as a villain at least once more after raimi misused him and utterly ruined him in 3 to get a little redemption. but I still think, if done right, a fight involving spidy, venom, and carnage would be awsome up on the big screen. Last edited by Inferno Dragon; 05-13-2007 at 03:05 AM.*

05-08-2007, 07:38 PM	#22
hferg Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Gender: Posts: 228 Thanks: 4 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Points: 3,386.21 Bank: 1,438.97 Total Points: 4,825.18 Donate	someone said the exact same thing on Meleenium! maybe it was you....

05-12-2007, 05:01 AM	#25
Inferno Dragon Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Planet Draco Gender: Posts: 5,945 Thanks: 52 Thanked 32 Times in 25 Posts Points: 33,706.29 Bank: 20,217.77 Total Points: 53,924.07 Donate	well I've heard various things but the three most likely villains that I've heard of to get in spidy 4 are Venom Lizzard and Mysterio. I've also heard that Raimi won't be directing the next three after the fan backlash of what he tried to do to Venom. but the way I see it will be something like this for the next three. spidy 4: Doc. Conners turns into the lizzard (finally) and mysterio shows up later with spidy and lizzard facing off against mysterio near the end but before they team up spidy will be facing the lizzard. spidy 5: the Scorpion arrives and is aided by electro, spidy has his work cut out for him this time. spidy 6: Venom returns and this time he's got carnage to help him, but about half way through Carnage breaks off on his own and causes countless deaths. venom realizes that his other must be stopped so spidy and venom work together to take down carnage. I feel that with carnage as the final villain of the film series they could tie up alot of loose ends and end it with a great battle that would overshadow ane of the battles that have happened with the movies so far.

05-12-2007, 10:21 AM	#26
Link CDLVI Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 38° North Latitude, 104° West Longitude Gender: Posts: 1,544 Thanks: 25 Thanked 40 Times in 32 Posts Points: 2,524.98 Bank: 10,617.69 Total Points: 13,142.67 Donate	Meh, the movie was alright, I really think it could have been better. There was alot of action, but in my prespective, it was kinda good. I'd give it 3 3/4 stars.

05-12-2007, 05:37 PM	#28
PlotTwistMastermindFore Gunjinkeeper Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Behind a Drum Set Gender: Posts: 5,618 Thanks: 638 Thanked 361 Times in 280 Posts Blog Entries: 2 Points: 5,153.25 Bank: 32,735.23 Total Points: 37,888.48 Donate	Okay. I just read Last Hunt. That definately would make an effing awesome movie. Wyborn's right; Kraven is cool. The cartoon officially blows for ruining an awesome character. Also, I agree: where the hell was Osborn and his Sinister Six? Shame.

05-12-2007, 07:59 PM	#29
VWF_champion Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In a world covered by endless water... Gender: Posts: 1,462 Thanks: 0 Thanked 59 Times in 42 Posts Points: 26,861.43 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 26,861.43 Donate	You guys wanna know a Spider-man story arc that would work terrible as a movie? (even though it 100% will not happen.) Maximum Carnage. It won't happen, but i can name 5 reasons, if that would happen, of why a movie adaptation would be terrible. 1. The villians would be butchered like ****. Besides, Carnage, as Lurch says, is a medicore villian with no depth, and he would just be horrible. 2. The major Sub-plots in the other spiderman movies would be dissed, or they would be used, but get like, one second of importance in the plot. 3. Venom would have to return, and chances are, well, he wouldn't make any sense to return after he dies. Plus, with one aapearance, it's enough. 4. There was like, a hundred characters in that storyline, and Marvel (or whoever makes the movies) would spend a lot of money on low-budget actors nobody has ever heard about. 5. A Medicore, and useless storyline would be wasted as a SpiderMan movie, so it would be pointless to use money to make a movie that wil mostourously flop in the Box office. Like i said, it will not happen, but Maximum Carnage would make a terribe SpiderMan movie. (No flames please.)

05-13-2007, 12:08 AM	#30
Inferno Dragon Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Planet Draco Gender: Posts: 5,945 Thanks: 52 Thanked 32 Times in 25 Posts Points: 33,706.29 Bank: 20,217.77 Total Points: 53,924.07 Donate	this is about as bad as the PPR forum I really think that movie 6 should have the best battle of all the 6 movies and battles involving spidy, venom, and carnage usually span more than one issue that's how crazy those battles get. also in the comics Venom and Carnage are almost the only two villains who outclass spidy in every way and should win because of the following: they don't set off his spider sense, they're stronger, faster, they know what he knows, they know who he is under the mask, carnage can craft weapons from his hands, carnage is immune to sonics, venom's webbing is stronger than spidy's and carnage is so freakin powerful that it takes both Spidy and Venom to take him down. even with all this stacked against him spidy is still able to beat them but it drains him when he does fight them. I have two videos for those who are still against the symbiotes. these three videos will give you a little insight into them, really they will educate you. venom 101 venom 102 carnage 101

05-13-2007, 12:23 AM	#31
Wyborn Zelda Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: All over the place Gender: Posts: 12,326 Thanks: 86 Thanked 439 Times in 269 Posts Points: 16,064.94 Bank: 78,965.31 Total Points: 95,030.25 Donate	Norman Osborn knows who Peter is, is a perfect match in terms of combat prowess, knows how to break him psychologically (something Carnage and Venom wouldn't even understand), and the last battle between Spidey and Norman took them across the entirety of Manhattan - this with nothing but their fists, and involving Luke Cage. He's been Peter's darker half for thirty years, he killed Gwen Stacy broke his family, is directly or indirectly responsible for most of the major tragedies in Peter's life....I could go on. He's behind so many bad guys it's hilarious. Venom and Carnage are intellectually bankrupt jokes who have nothing going for them: they're pure violence, no inherent value in terms of drama. They're not compelling in any way except for how violently they kill people, and that's not enough to drive a comic book or a movie. Read The Last Hunt, and you'll see twisted violence used to effect - but not by Venom and Carnage. They have no personality outside of "kill kill kill". It's boring. It's stale. It's so 90's it doesn't bear any mind nowadays. Norman, though? He's all personality. He's the Joker for Spider-Man, only he's worse because he can plan for years instead of days, he can break Peter's mind and take his life to pieces. He was the first person to ever make Spider-Man utters the words "I will kill you," and he laughed in Peter's face when he recoiled at the reality of his own darkness. Norman Osborn is the devil. Venom and Carnage are jokes.

05-13-2007, 01:20 AM	#32
*CaptHayfever* Smash Supermod Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: (n) - the place where I am Gender: Posts: 19,401 Thanks: 170 Thanked 779 Times in 497 Posts Points: 108,406.95 Bank: 1,040.34 Total Points: 109,447.29 Donate	^^Those videos said very little that I didn't already know, and probably absolutely nothing that Wyborn & Lurch didn't already know. I actually like Venom, but there is still no defending Carnage. Absolutely none. And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

05-13-2007, 01:35 AM	#33
Lurch1982 Senior Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Katrinaland, USA Gender: Posts: 9,142 Thanks: 119 Thanked 198 Times in 123 Posts Points: 26,711.35 Bank: 153,405.36 Total Points: 180,116.71 Donate	Ok douche, maybe you weren't paying attention during the movie: Spoiler Below Venom dies. He gets firebombed. Eddie's dead (refer to skeleton in explosion). And its going to take more than some lardassed Youtube beta-nerd to make me think that Venom and especially Carnage are Spiderman's best villains. Ok, take everything Wyborn said about Norman Osborn and repeat it here. Harry's still better than either because he at least had depth to him. He was interconnected to Peter's life, and he went in and out of madness. Venom knew Peter's personal life and didn't do jack about it. Here's the difference between the Green Goblin and Venom: Green Goblin: Venom: So let's compare: Norman takes Peter's girlfriend and chucks her off a bridge, forcing Peter to either let her die on the rocks or hit her with a web and snap her neck from the sudden stop. Venom makes someone cry. There is no comparison. Woop-de-friggin-do. I make people cry constantly, am I the best villain here? Oh wait, I'm more like Norman because I drive people insane and systematically take them down point by point. Nevermind. But at least Venom has a few redeeming qualities (none of which we saw in the movie). Venom acted as the extreme, "Id" version of Spiderman. Yet, once you took him out of that role (referring to Lethal Protector onwards), you're looking at Venom as a complete shadow of what made him great and instead turned him into an obnoxiously stereotypical 1990s antihero and put him in the same line of a whole slew of mediocre creations. But Carnage. Oh no, Carnage is a whole lot of mediocre crap. He's the Shocker to Venom's Elektro. He's the Hobgoblin compared to the Green Goblin. You know, a knockoff "I think he'd be just as good as the real deal but really isn't" character. If Norman Osborn had Carnage's powers, the Parker family line would be severed. But don't take my word on it: Marvel agrees with me. Because ya know, it sure as hell isn't Venom or Carnage that's been the stabbing pain in Peter Parker's side since the character was essentially created. Norman Osborn is the best Spiderman villain in the catalog. Let's do an association: If I say Superman, you think Lex Luthur. If I say Batman, you say the Joker. If I say Captain America, you say the Red Skull. If I say the Fantastic Four, you say Dr. Doom. Just like if I say Spiderman and you crack back with anything but the Green Goblin, you're a ****ing moron and you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground. Venom isn't even on par with Doc Ock, and Carnage is 10 levels below Venom.

05-13-2007, 03:36 AM	#35
Lurch1982 Senior Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Katrinaland, USA Gender: Posts: 9,142 Thanks: 119 Thanked 198 Times in 123 Posts Points: 26,711.35 Bank: 153,405.36 Total Points: 180,116.71 Donate	Look kid, I realize that whatever learning disability you have makes Carnage the top flight villain in the history of super heros or whatever, but it doesn't escape the simple fact that you're wrong on far too many levels. First, you haven't responded to a single reason as to why Carnage is not good. Instead, you claim "Depth" through his generic background story that was created by combining the personal backgrounds and histories of serial killers. Second, even going at your post on full value, you have failed to show why Carnage is better than some generic killer they'd do as a one-shot. OH NOES HE HAS A SYMBIOTES SUIT. Again, he's Venom without any depth, plot, or compelling stories. The only conflict between Parker and Carnage is that "Parker is good and doesn't like Carnage randomly murdering people." Third, just reading your post, I can already tell you're the type of halfbaked imbecile that loved Aliens vs. Predator. Yeah, blood and violence isn't cool, especially without substance. If you want that, park your ass into a bad horror movie, because that's all Carnage is. Carnage brings 0 substance. Let's look at the Maximum Carnage crossover...the pinnacle of Carnage's existance. The series was like a dozen issues of contrived, half-thought, style-over-substance garbage. You mean to tell me that Carnage and a collection of C rate villains are going to wreck havoc and stomp all over a massive cross-section of heros, including Spiderman, half the avengers, and a herd of powerful minor heros? You're out of your box. Even then, in a full-fledged crossover, Carnage still failed to give any sembalence of a deep, coherant, anything more than "kill everything for no reason" garbage. Carnage is a poorly written, contrived, reactionary character created in response to Image/McFarlane putting blood, tits, and over the top violence in every panel. You lose any nerd street cred you have if you think Carnage is awesome. Fourth: Norman (and Harry) may set off Parker's spider-sense, yet they still did far more damage to Parker than Venom or Carnage ever managed to.

05-13-2007, 07:08 AM	#36
Inferno Dragon Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Planet Draco Gender: Posts: 5,945 Thanks: 52 Thanked 32 Times in 25 Posts Points: 33,706.29 Bank: 20,217.77 Total Points: 53,924.07 Donate	look the only reason I like carnage in the first place is that he looks good in a battle scene and you know what, that's the only reason I like carnage, he can put up a good fight and look good doing so, other than that I agree he sucks as a character but he can be funny so I'd put him in the catagory of serious comic relief villain. oh btw the symbiote of carnage got ripped to shreds (litterally) by some other hero when he was trying to flee earth so carnage is gone for now. as for the Green Goblin, yeah he's great as a character, and yes he's hurt peter more than any other villain ever could I admit that. he is spidy's equal in every way and he is evil incarnate yes. he is far superior to carnage and I never said he wasn't. Goblin is almost the perfect villain when you really look at him. thing is I wasn't born until '85 I didn't get to start reading comics until around '92 and the first comic I picked up was the issue where Spiderman and Venom teamed up for the first time to fight Carnage. that was my first comic, that's why I am attached to the symbiotes so much. now that I'm older I know that carnage pales in comparrason to most of the older villains such as Green Goblin, Doc Ock, Scorpion, Mysterio, Electro, Vulture, etc. so I understand where you're comming from lurch but my favorite villain is still venom, the original McFarlin Venom that gave spidy one of his hardest battles up to that point because he had all of spidy's powers, knowledge, and he was stronger and faster than spidy and he was the only villian up to that point that was able to block the spider sense, so Venom outclassed spidy in that origonal fight they had. that and venom was a badass about it to. (yeah, after reading the conclusion to that first carnage battle I went to my local comic shop and read through that whole venom story arc.) but to get to my point I just like Venom a bit more than the others and that's my preference. did I miss anything lurch?

05-13-2007, 09:55 PM	#37
hferg Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Gender: Posts: 228 Thanks: 4 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Points: 3,386.21 Bank: 1,438.97 Total Points: 4,825.18 Donate	I'm suprised that nobody has mentioned a certain villian yet: KINGPIN! Granted, since he was in Daredevil, he can't appear in Spiderman, but wouldn't someone with the resources to keep Goblin funded indefinately be at least worth a line or two?

05-13-2007, 10:07 PM	#38
*ZeldaGirl* Venting SuperMod Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Why do YOU want to know...? Gender: Posts: 11,988 Thanks: 508 Thanked 771 Times in 518 Posts Points: 26,758.70 Bank: 358,539.27 Total Points: 385,297.97 Donate	^ I was interested in the lack of Kingpin as well, but I think that's due to the fact that it would be difficult for him to translate to the Spidey series movies (unless they crossover Daredevil and Spidey, and dear god, let's hope not).

05-13-2007, 10:16 PM	#39
PlotTwistMastermindFore Gunjinkeeper Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Behind a Drum Set Gender: Posts: 5,618 Thanks: 638 Thanked 361 Times in 280 Posts Blog Entries: 2 Points: 5,153.25 Bank: 32,735.23 Total Points: 37,888.48 Donate	Yeah, but you gotta admit, Micheal Clarke Duncan as Kingpin was the only good thing about that movie. He did a well enough job portraying kingpin, so, since Daredevil's ending set up a return of Kingpin, it would make sense for him to be on the street and happen upon Spidey. Having ol' Fisk support Osborn and the Sinister Six would make a better movie that anything with Carnage in the picture.

05-13-2007, 10:41 PM	#40
Wyborn Zelda Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: All over the place Gender: Posts: 12,326 Thanks: 86 Thanked 439 Times in 269 Posts Points: 16,064.94 Bank: 78,965.31 Total Points: 95,030.25 Donate	No. Kingpin is the only role that Michael Clark Duncan isn't big enough to play. Kingpin's so big he would have to be CGI or the fact that he can pimp-slap Spider-Man wouldn't make any sense. And we have yet to reach a point where a CGI image can look realistic enough to be a human character in a live action movie. Kingpin's great, only problem is getting him on film. Tht and the fact that, in the public eye, he's a Daredevil villain now.