Genre Hierarchy and Film Criticism

Bomby · 08-23-2008, 12:17 PM

While thoroughly enjoying Pineapple Express last night, I was having a bit of a conflict in my mind. Express is a very well crafted film, seriously contending with the likes of Shaun of the Dead and Hot Fuzz in terms of quality comedies being made in the past five years.

So why do I feel more apprehensive to heap the praise onto Pineapple Express that I know it deserves?

Simple: It's a marijuana comedy. If anything, movies like How High and Strange Wilderness have taught us that this genre is supposed to be the lowest of the low. Even the best movies of the genre, such as the first Friday movie, would never be considered to be Oscar-worthy.

But if there were an Oscar for Best Action Sequences, which there isn't, the final 20 minutes or so of Pineapple Express would be deserving of the nod. Realistically, the award would end up going to The Dark Knight, not because it has better fight sequences (in fact, the fight sequences were easily Dark Knight's weakest point), but because it makes more sense for an action movie to win Best Action Sequences than a marijuana comedy, and The Dark Knight was the most acclaimed action movie of the summer.

I could go on about how there was no way in hell that The Departed should've won that Best Editing award, but that would be beside the point.

I sincerely believe that Kill Bill is one of the best films of the past decade, not only in terms of entertainment value, but craftsmanship and artistic value, also. The epic battle in the House of Blue leaves is quite possibly one of the greatest sequences ever filmed, the musical queues are placed perfectly, the long takes in Vol. 2 are up to the level of Sergio Leone's... I could go on. But the fact is, Kill Bill will never appear on any lists of many well respected film critics. Why? Because it's a Kung Fu Samurai Spaghetti Western Revenge flick.

Meanwhile, a film like Capote, a biopic which boasts an excellent performance from Philip Seymour Hoffman but is otherwise stylistically only competent, receives far more acclaim, simply due to the fact that the genre hierarchy tells us that biopics have more artistic merit than Kung Fu Samurai Spaghetti Western flicks.

Roger Ebert admits to criticizing within the genre hierarchy in his review of The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly: "Looking up my old review, I see I described a four-star movie but only gave it three stars, perhaps because it was a "spaghetti Western" and so could not be art."

I'm not really sure how to end this rant in a professional manner, so I'm just going to end it abruptly with a question. Any thoughts?

Sean P Kelly · 08-23-2008, 11:08 PM

I always balance my love of genre films with so-called critically acclaimed film and generally don't care about hierarchies and whatnot.

Just look at my yearly top ten lists.

Panfan · 08-23-2008, 11:26 PM

I saw No Country for Old Men and Across the Universe back to back. While No Country for Old Men was a great movie, there was just something about the overall feel of Across the Universe that made me love it, and it's definitely my favorite of 07. Of course, Across the Universe probably couldn't get nominated for anything ever besides "minor ones." (special effects/costume design/etc.) Sure, the story wasn't the most compelling, but the art and the music was all perfect. It was like acid trip, and I loved it.

***CaptHayfever*** · 08-24-2008, 12:08 AM

I abhor genre hierarchy. Also medium hierarchy.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

Bomby · 08-24-2008, 12:09 AM

Those are some solid lists, I'd say. I'm glad to see that you put the Darjeeling Limited on your top ten of 2007. I thought it was massively underrated, keeping in mind that I'm a big fan of Wes Anderson.

One more funny thing about the Oscars is how films that deserve to win best Direction often either only win or are only nominated in the Best Screenplay Category. Prime examples would include Pulp Fiction and the Royal Tenenbaums.

Capt, if you're talking about my disdain for television, it's not that I think that television has less artistic merit than film - it's that it's usually poorly done. There are many excellent television shows that I enjoy thoroughly.

08-23-2008, 12:17 PM	#1
Bomby You just freaking blew Joe Biden's mind! Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: WHAT?house Gender: Posts: 19,491 Thanks: 513 Thanked 1,449 Times in 849 Posts Blog Entries: 5	Genre Hierarchy and Film Criticism While thoroughly enjoying Pineapple Express last night, I was having a bit of a conflict in my mind. Express is a very well crafted film, seriously contending with the likes of Shaun of the Dead and Hot Fuzz in terms of quality comedies being made in the past five years. So why do I feel more apprehensive to heap the praise onto Pineapple Express that I know it deserves? Simple: It's a marijuana comedy. If anything, movies like How High and Strange Wilderness have taught us that this genre is supposed to be the lowest of the low. Even the best movies of the genre, such as the first Friday movie, would never be considered to be Oscar-worthy. But if there were an Oscar for Best Action Sequences, which there isn't, the final 20 minutes or so of Pineapple Express would be deserving of the nod. Realistically, the award would end up going to The Dark Knight, not because it has better fight sequences (in fact, the fight sequences were easily Dark Knight's weakest point), but because it makes more sense for an action movie to win Best Action Sequences than a marijuana comedy, and The Dark Knight was the most acclaimed action movie of the summer. I could go on about how there was no way in hell that The Departed should've won that Best Editing award, but that would be beside the point. I sincerely believe that Kill Bill is one of the best films of the past decade, not only in terms of entertainment value, but craftsmanship and artistic value, also. The epic battle in the House of Blue leaves is quite possibly one of the greatest sequences ever filmed, the musical queues are placed perfectly, the long takes in Vol. 2 are up to the level of Sergio Leone's... I could go on. But the fact is, Kill Bill will never appear on any lists of many well respected film critics. Why? Because it's a Kung Fu Samurai Spaghetti Western Revenge flick. Meanwhile, a film like Capote, a biopic which boasts an excellent performance from Philip Seymour Hoffman but is otherwise stylistically only competent, receives far more acclaim, simply due to the fact that the genre hierarchy tells us that biopics have more artistic merit than Kung Fu Samurai Spaghetti Western flicks. Roger Ebert admits to criticizing within the genre hierarchy in his review of The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly: "Looking up my old review, I see I described a four-star movie but only gave it three stars, perhaps because it was a "spaghetti Western" and so could not be art." I'm not really sure how to end this rant in a professional manner, so I'm just going to end it abruptly with a question. Any thoughts?

08-23-2008, 11:08 PM	#2
Sean P Kelly Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Gender: Posts: 3,789 Thanks: 19 Thanked 58 Times in 46 Posts	I always balance my love of genre films with so-called critically acclaimed film and generally don't care about hierarchies and whatnot. Just look at my yearly top ten lists.

08-23-2008, 11:26 PM	#3
Panfan AND HE PRAYS Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Grayskull Gender: Posts: 18,806 Thanks: 1,405 Thanked 2,247 Times in 1,337 Posts Blog Entries: 15	I saw No Country for Old Men and Across the Universe back to back. While No Country for Old Men was a great movie, there was just something about the overall feel of Across the Universe that made me love it, and it's definitely my favorite of 07. Of course, Across the Universe probably couldn't get nominated for anything ever besides "minor ones." (special effects/costume design/etc.) Sure, the story wasn't the most compelling, but the art and the music was all perfect. It was like acid trip, and I loved it.

08-24-2008, 12:08 AM	#4
*CaptHayfever* Smash SuperMod Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: (n) - the place where I am Gender: Posts: 27,659 Thanks: 1,991 Thanked 2,486 Times in 1,513 Posts	I abhor genre hierarchy. Also medium hierarchy. And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

08-24-2008, 12:09 AM	#5
Bomby You just freaking blew Joe Biden's mind! Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: WHAT?house Gender: Posts: 19,491 Thanks: 513 Thanked 1,449 Times in 849 Posts Blog Entries: 5	Those are some solid lists, I'd say. I'm glad to see that you put the Darjeeling Limited on your top ten of 2007. I thought it was massively underrated, keeping in mind that I'm a big fan of Wes Anderson. One more funny thing about the Oscars is how films that deserve to win best Direction often either only win or are only nominated in the Best Screenplay Category. Prime examples would include Pulp Fiction and the Royal Tenenbaums. Capt, if you're talking about my disdain for television, it's not that I think that television has less artistic merit than film - it's that it's usually poorly done. There are many excellent television shows that I enjoy thoroughly.