25 Artists That are Awesome

[Bomby]

If all rap sounds the same to you, then you obviously haven't heard much.

[Pieist]

Originally posted by Calm down, Malik...:

Since rap doesn't take much talent, spit a 100 bar freestyle for me. Stay on the rhythm, no repeating lyrics, and no biting lyrics from other rappers. No pausing to think of more rhymes, either.

Okay I kinda forgot about freestyle. THAT takes talent. But I was talking about rap on the radio. They already memorized the lyrics.

[Pieist]

Originally posted by Brandon2390:

Compared to those screaming heavy metalists that dont even write any lyrics but just scream unknown words instead, rap is hard.

For one thing I don't consider those people to be true rock. The only good rock groups actually put time and thought into their lyrics.

Actually, there is quite some truth in what I said about rock music. Although there are some exceptions, the whole genre revolves mainly around the guitar, the bass, and the drums. Rap often includes all three of those instruments plus horns, saxophones, flutes, violins... hell, ANY instrument, you can find it in rap.

Yeah but I never see the rappers PLAY those instruments.

[Parrakarry]

I am quite unlike most people. While I do like rock better than rap, I listen to a little bit of rap too. Rock is stereotyped as screaming heavy metal druggy crap because of a few screaming druggies, and rap is stereotyped as a no-talented business where no one does anything for themselves or sings at all because of a few people who do nothing for themselves or sing at all. Therefore, rap fans insult rock, attacking the stereotype, and rock fans think that because rap fans don't realize that all rock isn't like that, they must think all rock is like that and therefore all rap is like THEIR stereotype. So it's kind of a vicious circle.

Rap isn't all crap. Most rap's crap, in my opinion, but freestyling's hard, and there are some people who rap very well. Rock, similarly, is made up of both crap and gold... it's really all dependant on what you like. And for me, also, if it doesn't have a guitar, I tend to dislike it. Don't know why, but that's just how I am...

[Brandon2390]

As I said, I do think that a lot of rock is good, and takes decent lyrics. But i hate the heavy metal fans that hate rap because they say it takes no talent. Hell, I can spit about 20 lines freestyling, and I've worked on it for a long time. It is actualy very hard.

[Vinny]

I love rock, and I don't listen to rap much, but I like a few artists, mainly old school like Run-DMC (seems to be one of the few that rock heads like), although Kanye West seems pretty good.

It is true that rock is based mainly on 3 instruments, with rare variations. This is why I never listen to the hot new band with their new hit repeating 3-power-chord progression song, whose bass player plays the same note 16 times before changing to another note 16 times, then playing another note 16 times, then going back to the start *COUGHTheStrokesCOUGH*.

However, you can't start critcizing rock for its lack of true musicianship when rap isn't exactly renowned for its instrumental value... All that rap tends to be is a recorded and repeating beat that requires no musical talent to play because, well, it isn't actually played. The interesting and contrasting thing between every genre is that they put emphasis on different things; rap emphasizes lyrics and delivery of lyrics, while rock emphasizes musicianship - at least talented rock does. If not, why is the guitar solo such a focal part of rock music? As a musician, I prefer rock because it gives me something to listen to rather than the same repeating pattern. For example, even now, after having listened to "One Hot Minute" by the Red Hot Chili Peppers so many times, every now and then if I'm listening very closely I notice some tiny detail that the guitarist or bassist or drummer decided to throw in that's incongruent with the rest of the song. And that's what humans can give you that machines never will - variation and improvisation. In a machine it'll always be the same pattern playing, while if it's a human player, he might be bored of playing the same riff constantly and, acting upon impulse, decide to do things a little differently that just makes the song that much more special to those who have the musical ear that allows them to listen beyond the singer and the guitar solos. That's something that you simply can't get in rap unless you have actual MUSICIANS playing, which is something that I've yet to see in any rap group. Find me ANY rap group that has musicians that actually play (and I don't mean on one track in the whole album) in it, and I'd be very eager to listen to them. Of course, you could say that Rage Against the Machine has already done that. Rap completely shifts the rhythm section aside to make room for the melody, while in rock the melody is more like the icing on the cake.

Still, you can take rap to a higher level of musicianship even if you have the restriction of a repeating rhythm pattern in the background. This is in terms of delivery of lyrics. If you listen to Eminem - and yes, I do think Eminem is a good rapper, no matter what everyone else says. Just because he's grossly overplayed doesn't mean he's bad - you'll see that the phrasing he uses isn't in the same monotonous tone that gets on your nerves *COUGHDiplomatsCOUGH*, he also uses triplets as well as normal notes. And that's what separates a good rapper from a bad rapper - not only what they say, but how they say it. Even if they're not aware of what they're doing musically, it's their subconscious way of thinking that matters, and that's why talent is necessary to be a good rapper.

... But I still prefer rock [img]tongue.gif[/img] .

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Quote of the week:
"Liz, women are easy. State capitals are hard!" - Bart Simpson.
Pointless fact of the week:
On an American one-dollar bill, there is an owl in the upper left-hand corner of the "1" encased in the "shield" and a spider hidden in the front upper right-hand corner.

[Brandon2390]

Where that argument is wong though, is that even though rap artists might not actually do the action of playing the instruments, they have programs to help them do so, and are just as hard to work as the real thing. Rap beats can be just as complicated as rock beats, while most rap has better lyrics at the same time. I prefer rap, and I also think it's harder to do.

[Nabooru98]

Originally posted by Calm down, Malik...:
If all rap sounds the same to you, then you obviously haven't heard much.

Actually, my best friend was completely obsessed with rap music, and I didn't say ALL rap sounded the same, did I? Sorry if I did. I will listen to Eminem and MC Hammer (I actually have one CD from each of them. Woo.) and I also like Sir Mix-a-lot. There are just some rap songs I cannot stand, and a lot of it just sounds like talking with a few beats.

[Super Shy Guy]

Originally posted by EuchreMaster314:
I'm awful, am I? Says the user who likes Godsmack and Rage Against the Machine. You have zero credibility. That is all.

Well, you said that Metallica and Nirvana are two of the best bands of all time. You have as much credibility as her. Here's what I think about these groups: Metallica was alright in the 80's, but now they just spit out more asinine, generic, metal trash to try to sell more crappy albums, and they blame the lack of sales for their crappy albums on file-sharing. And Nirvana isn't anything special, but they whined too much. Both groups are pretty decent, but I wouldn't say they're the best of all time. This was my opinon. Again, this is an opinion topic, and yadda yadda yadda.

You know who I hate? people that sound like this:

X people that listen to x music suck so much. Those people totally suck and I hate them.

As for the rap thing, I don't like a lot of rap. I've listened to plenty, and I don't like a lot of it. Kanye West, Beastie Boys, Outkast, and I guess Jay Z are good, but most of mainstream rap is monotonous and, well, crappy. And I have heard enough to judge it. Of course, modern rock is pretty ****ty right now too. We have good groups like the Darkness, Tool, and Velvet Revolver, but **** like Nickelback and Creed reigns supreme on the radio. Music these days is very depressing, everyone cares too much about money to really innovate and make good music. Oh well.

[ June 29, 2004, 07:27 PM: Message edited by: Captain Carter ]

[Pieist]

Originally posted by Captain Carter:
And Nirvana isn't anything special, but they whined too much.

.......They whined too much? What the hell does that mean?

[imported_Andrew]

^ It means Kurt's "brilliance" was mumbling and moaning when he couldn't think of any witty yet depressing lyrics.

[spicy]

Suprisingly, death metal tends to have an edge over rap lyrics wise.(Look 'em up! I'll wait)

I can understand, what with the ****ty bands on the radio now, how people might think that all rock is like that. If the same goes for rap then boy is my face red.

[Super Shy Guy]

[Parrakarry]

I prefer rock over rap, but that doesn't mean that rap sucks. Actually, Carter had it on the ball. "OMG TEH X MUSIK SI TEH SUXORZ BECUZ IT HAS NO MUSCI OMG OMG OMG" Doesn't this remind you of "Xbox is the best sytem ever!!! It has amazing graphics!!! PSPOO and KIDDYCUBE SUCK BECAUSE THEY'RE INFERIOR GRAPHICALLY!!! OMG TEH CELDA SI TEH CEL-SHADED LYNCHIN TIME!!!" Everyone has a type of music that they like... everyone has a type of music that they dislike. Each genre of music is very different, and appeals to different audiences...

And by the way, in my opinion, 95% of current mainstream music sucks. Biggest oxymoron? "Good Mainstream Music". I mean, I was offered a choice between ten dollars and a music CD, and I picked the cash, mainly because most of the bands I like I HAVE all the CDs from. And yes, I realize that I just contradicted myself... that's why I said "In my opinion".

[ June 29, 2004, 10:43 PM: Message edited by: Parrakarry ]

[Pieist]

Originally posted by ShyGuy727:
^ It means Kurt's "brilliance" was mumbling and moaning when he couldn't think of any witty yet depressing lyrics.

There was a reason he mumbled, moaned, and screamed. He was trying to make his songs 'distasteful' so people wouldn't have any interest in them whatsoever. But as we all know that people DID get interested in his songs and all the fame really got to him and you know what happened next.

[Bowser314]

Nirvana was one of the greatest musical acts ever, and anyone who disagrees should be punched. They are one of the few artists out there whose music can be described as "art."

[Super Shy Guy]

nah. They're okay, but I never really liked their music that much.

And I have several friends that are big Nirvana fans, so I understand if you like them and all. I just don't really like them that much. But hey, what music you like is what you like.

[ June 30, 2004, 12:00 AM: Message edited by: Captain Carter ]

[Vinny]

Originally posted by Brandon2390:
Where that argument is wong though, is that even though rap artists might not actually do the action of playing the instruments, they have programs to help them do so, and are just as hard to work as the real thing. Rap beats can be just as complicated as rock beats, while most rap has better lyrics at the same time. I prefer rap, and I also think it's harder to do.

You missed the point. The point is that on a machine it's programmed and it's the same thing over and over and over again, while with a human, he may get the impulse to improvise and make it a little bit different, play a tiny drum riff different than he normally would, etc. You don't have that on a machine. You can't have Jaco Pastorius on rap. And if you don't know who he is, well, he's one of the greatest bassists in the history of the world, and if you listen to his stuff, you'll see that often there isn't a pattern at all to what's being played, it's all improvised. And that's another thing that rap doesn't have, at least instrumentally, which is musical improvisation.

Freestyling is damn hard, and it's improvisation, I'll give you that. But now, try, as a band with more than just one person showing off at a time and every musician depending on each other to make the song work (this isn't the case in rap, in which during a freestyle only one person is rapping, with occasional "uh"'s and "yeah"'s from others), to improvise a theme from scratch, every single member staying on time, on key, and also managing change things every now and then so that they're not sticking on the same theme and boring the hell out of people. Don't forget that you have to solo over it. And you need years of musical training and a very good musical ear (musical ear isn't at all necessary in rap) just to make out what key everyone else is on and, if the soloist suddenly decides to do something differently that doesn't fit what's being played at the moment, you have to, in a matter of seconds, find out what the soloist is doing so you can accompany him. It's much simpler when you're rapping to do something like that, but on an instrument it becomes a lot harder. For example, if anyone here is a musician, try the following: improvise a melody in your head. The first melody that comes to your mind. Now, find an instrument, and, without room for a single failure, play that melody. You see my point? That takes years of practice, and I should know, I'm a guitarist. So don't try to tell me that rap requires more skill.

Both types of music can be taken to very complex levels (people like Big Pun have showed us so; that's another one of the few rappers that I like), and yet both types of music have the most simplistic idiots who don't really seem to even try at all getting rich off of it. Don't believe me? Look at G Unit and the All-American Rejects. Both are terrible and have no talent, and yet both are very mainstream. And both have great talent. However, it is my belief that talent in rock can reach a higher peak than it can in rap. Just look at musicians like King Crimson, Steve Vai (who, by the way, puts on an INCREDIBLE show), and Jeff Beck. To reach the level that they've reached, it takes about 8 hours of practice every day for several years.

314, I used to be obsessed with If Nirvana, but then I moved on to better things. The typical Nirvana song is composed of four hastily integrated power chords, half-a-minute-long solos with 4 or 5 notes, and some nonsensical lyrics that Kurt wrote up in about 5 minutes because he'd been procrastinating on them throughout the whole song-writing process (Kurt said it himself in an interview that he did that). Now, art, unless it's modern art, usually takes a bit of work. Nirvana's songs have little to no effort behind them, not only from Kurt but also from Krist and Dave. Krist Novoselic is great at playing root notes, and Dave rarely plays anything other than basic drum patterns. The simple truth is that Nirvana were NOT good musicians, and people have always been trying to coax me into believing that they were merely because they like Nirvana. He was a good songwriter, I'll give him that, but he wasn't talented. Look at John Lennon: great songwriter, but as a guitarist he knew all of three chords. The fact that you like them has nothing to do with their talent, and I also think it's disgraceful that Rolling Stone put him high up in their 100 Great Guitarist Ever list above monsters like Santana merely because he has a larger following.

I've even read Kurt's biography (this was when I was obsessed with him), and I don't think he's a hero. I think he's a weak-minded baby for wallowing in his own misery instead of standing on his own two feet and trying to do something about his problems, like normal, assertive people would. Other people, like Santana and even Anthony Kiedis (Red Hot Chili Peppers) have gone through his same problems and have managed to come clean. Besides, it wasn't money and fame that drew him to suicide, it was heroin. It caused him serious social problems with everyone around him, including band members and family and made him more and more unpredictable. He had an erratic behaviour, and frankly, after having read his biography, it's my conclusion that Kurt was simply an a**hole. He was greedy, selfish, and hurtful towards his closest friends. He was no hero. What did he ever do for anyone to merit the "hero" title? And hey, if money was causing him so much chagrin, why didn't he give it away to some charity?

I can, however, understand that you like Nirvana, as I used to. I mean, no matter how influential a band is or whatever else they may have done, it all comes down to a simple thing: whether you like them or not. And I'm not gonna say that you suck for liking Nirvana, as it's not really anyone's personal choice what their tastes are (although it could easily be influenced by the general culture of society and friends around them). I still don't think it's fair to call Nirvana "art."

You want ART? Listen to Pink Floyd or King Crimson. And while you're at it, think about the fact that that music was written in the 70s and was completely innovative, and the closest think to that type of music at the time was Jimi Hendrix, which isn't really very close. And THAT, my friend, is art.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Quote of the week:
"Liz, women are easy. State capitals are hard!" - Bart Simpson.
Pointless fact of the week:
On an American one-dollar bill, there is an owl in the upper left-hand corner of the "1" encased in the "shield" and a spider hidden in the front upper right-hand corner.

[ June 30, 2004, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: Just across from Wayne's Junk Store ]

[Pieist]

He is "considered" a hero by some people because back in 1991 they sounded different than all the other bands at the time. Plus, they knocked Michael Jackson off the charts. But I personally don't consider him a hero. I just think he is a good songwriter and a good guitarist. NOT the best, but still good. Plus, Krist Novoselic is the most neglected member of the group, yet I can actually here his bass on the CD without the bass boost on. Normally I have to turn on the bass boost. Plus, another reason I think Kurt killed himself was his wife. I'd kill myself to if I had a wife like that. Just read what she said at his funeral to see what I am talking about.

[imported_Andrew]

There was a reason he mumbled, moaned, and screamed. He was trying to make his songs 'distasteful' so people wouldn't have any interest in them whatsoever

He did a great job then.

And punch me, Nirvana is one of the most overrated bands in history.