Rap has the most complex lyricism of any other genre - VGF

Brandon2390 · 01-03-2006, 02:45 PM

Nobody so far an convince me otherwise so lets see what you all have to argue with. Good rap, mind you(I dont want to hear 50 cent references in this topic.) such as Mos Def or Immortal Technique has more complex lyricism than any genre of music. I dont see any wordplay in rock or anything else, I'm not taking any credit away from rock though, because naturally it takes more talent to play the guitar then to create a beat on fruity loops. But for anybody that says rapping takes no talent, the actual lyricism of rap is more complex than any other genre of music. I'll go farther in depth if I recieve any intelligent responses.

Sir Delicious Rightfoot · 01-03-2006, 05:32 PM

Exactly, that's what I say, but no one wants to listen. I like MANY music genres, I try to expand my horizons, but I think (with the good stuff), it is the most complex LYRIC wise.

I'll share my two cents when I'm not busy, right now I'm trying to buy time to not do Homework

***CaptHayfever*** · 01-03-2006, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Brandon:
I dont see any wordplay in rock or anything else

Don't throw gauntlets at me, I tend to fire them back out of cannons:

Quote:

John & John:
There's a picture opposite me
Of my primitive ancestry,
Which stood on rocky shores
And kept the beaches shipwreck-free.
Though I respect that a lot,
I'd be fired if that were my job,
After killing Jason off
And countless screaming Argonauts.

Quote:

Micky:
When you're away the image of your face is clear,
It is clear across the room and I am here,
Against the wall, afraid that it is all just a game.
Just a game that's played in fun but not too real.
Not too real to take a chance on finding out you've really lost.

Quote:

Al:
I man am regal, a German am I
Never odd or even/if I had a hi-fi
Madam, I'm Adam/Too hot to hoot
No lemons, no melon/Too bad I hid a boot
Lisa Bonet ate no basil/Warsaw was raw
Was it a car or a cat I saw?

Quote:

Y-O-U:
She's Back In Mother's Bed,
Turned On. Turn Off The Light.
Her Dirty Voice Cuts Through The Night
A Neighbor Turns To Open His Door.
What's That Girl Making So Much Noise For?

Her Eyes Are Closed,
She Runs Her Fingers Through Her Hair.
She's Getting High, But No One's There.
Her Father Opens Up The Door.
He Says She Couldn't Have Any More.

Making Love On The Radio
Coming In In Stereo.

Quote:

Jason:
I heard two men talking on the radio
In a cross fire kind of reality show
Uncovering the ways to plan the next big attack
They were counting down the ways to stab
The brother in the be right back after this
The unavoidable kiss, where the minty fresh
Death breath is sure to outlast this catastrophy
Dance with me, because if you've got the poison,
I've got the remedy

This is before any of my own wordplay lyrics, of course.

I'm not denying the talent that good rappers have (although, as you already adknowledged, good rappers are not synonymous with popular rappers), but the idea that no other form of music has such lyrical intricacies is devil's advocacy at best, and a bold-faced lie at worst.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

Koga · 01-03-2006, 06:06 PM

I would say the emphasis is on lyrics in rap and that is why they generally are better than in other genres. That doesn't mean that all rap lyrics are great (as you already admitted), but that doesn't mean that all rap lyrics are better than rock lyrics either, or that there is no wordplay in rock lyrics is going too far I think.

I would never say that rappers aren't talented, but the emphasis on lyrics is what makes me dislike rap. I think music is more important than lyrics. That doesn't mean I don't think lyrics are important at all, but I'd rather have a beautiful piece of music with nonsensical lyrics (and I could give you some examples of those) than a track with good lyrics and below average lyrics. The rap songs that I do like are the ones I like musically, and that is usually because they are based on an older song (e.g. Coolio's Gangsta's Paradise) or on classical music (e.g. Xzibit's Papparazzi).

I bet someone's going to hate me for bringing op Coolio [img]graemlins/lol.gif[/img]

Nekoscat · 01-03-2006, 06:25 PM

50 cent, hahahaha (I don't listen to rap)

Neko^^

Sir Delicious Rightfoot · 01-03-2006, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Koga:

I bet someone's going to hate me for bringing op Coolio [img]graemlins/lol.gif[/img]

Yup

Damon King · 01-03-2006, 10:52 PM

Being one of musical background, I believe it is all on your preference.

As Koga has said, not everyone likes to pay attention to lyrics. It depends on the style of music, some genres, like rock, focus more on the instrumentals of music, (though there are meaningful songs). Music at first was just sound, organized sound put together to make beautiful melodies, over time, it developed, through individual creativity and church hyms and the like. Early 1900s, you had jazz and such, in the mid 1950s rock emerged, of course country, and in the late 70s, you have the emergence of Rap. Rap became quickly the black man's expression of his feelings, being that most urban blacks could not relate to the messages/lyrics of rock and roll or country. Therefore, the emergence of this genre allowed many blacks to let out what they felt in a way we knew how. Until then, the only urban outpour for musical talents were R&B and Jazz.

In short, lyrics are a big part of rap because of EXPRESSION. Through the years it was watered down to make money, hence these fake ass 50 Cents and Tony Yayo's, etc, in it for the money pretty much, no love for the art of the music.

Anyway, I'm done.

Brandon2390 · 01-04-2006, 01:19 AM

My apologies, I didnt mean others dont have any lyricism, I just meant it isn't as great as hip hop's.

With that being said, I know that rap focuses mainly on lyrics and nothing else, thats why I made this topic. To me, lyrics are the most important aspect of a song. It may not be to others. And I know musically other genres are better, I didn't say otherwise. Thanks Capthayfever for showing me some examples though rather than just saying Yes, rock does have wordplay. I dont want you all to think I'm just a biased rap fan, the last cd I actually listened to all the way through was rock.(AFI)

Anyway, I'll have more on this tommorow, but I couldn't sleep and decided to go online at 12:30 at night.

[ January 04, 2006, 12:21 AM: Message edited by: Pious Augustus ]

Nick · 01-04-2006, 11:03 PM

Every genre really has its lyricists, they just tend to be drowned out by the talentless corporate hacks like generic rapper number 50 and the numerous clone bands.

Vinny · 01-22-2006, 05:40 PM

The thing is, by its very nature rap HAS to have good lyrics, because what's going on in the background is boring as hell, so if the lyrics can't back it up, then falls flat on its face.

But the reason why rap doesn't appeal to me that much is because I think that the music itself is the most important thing, and good lyrics are only a bonus. I can and often do listen to completely instrumental music all day and enjoy every second of it. Yes, there's a lot of rap that's really clever, really intelligent, and very hard to replicate, but the monotonous backgrounds just don't cut it for me. Give me John Coltrane, Frank Zappa, and Jaco Pastorius (to name a few) any day.

***CaptHayfever*** · 01-22-2006, 08:44 PM

Well, I listen to instrumentals as well, but good a capella or spoken-word pieces often find their way into my ears as well. I've also heard quite a good many rappers who put forth the effort to make quality backing music.

The best songs in each genre have the best of both worlds in them.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

01-03-2006, 02:45 PM	#1
Brandon2390 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Connecticut Posts: 10,370 Thanks: 5 Thanked 18 Times in 15 Posts Points: 37,567.54 Bank: 870.51 Total Points: 38,438.05 Donate	Nobody so far an convince me otherwise so lets see what you all have to argue with. Good rap, mind you(I dont want to hear 50 cent references in this topic.) such as Mos Def or Immortal Technique has more complex lyricism than any genre of music. I dont see any wordplay in rock or anything else, I'm not taking any credit away from rock though, because naturally it takes more talent to play the guitar then to create a beat on fruity loops. But for anybody that says rapping takes no talent, the actual lyricism of rap is more complex than any other genre of music. I'll go farther in depth if I recieve any intelligent responses.

01-03-2006, 05:32 PM	#2
Sir Delicious Rightfoot I'MA FIRIN MAH ADVENTURE BUS! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Birmingham, AL Gender: Posts: 13,135 Thanks: 941 Thanked 660 Times in 385 Posts Points: 43,622.35 Bank: 510,958.47 Total Points: 554,580.82 Donate	Exactly, that's what I say, but no one wants to listen. I like MANY music genres, I try to expand my horizons, but I think (with the good stuff), it is the most complex LYRIC wise. I'll share my two cents when I'm not busy, right now I'm trying to buy time to not do Homework

01-03-2006, 06:06 PM	#4
Koga Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: The Netherlands Gender: Posts: 17,093 Thanks: 104 Thanked 176 Times in 118 Posts Points: 104,477.41 Bank: 17,752.41 Total Points: 122,229.82 Donate	I would say the emphasis is on lyrics in rap and that is why they generally are better than in other genres. That doesn't mean that all rap lyrics are great (as you already admitted), but that doesn't mean that all rap lyrics are better than rock lyrics either, or that there is no wordplay in rock lyrics is going too far I think. I would never say that rappers aren't talented, but the emphasis on lyrics is what makes me dislike rap. I think music is more important than lyrics. That doesn't mean I don't think lyrics are important at all, but I'd rather have a beautiful piece of music with nonsensical lyrics (and I could give you some examples of those) than a track with good lyrics and below average lyrics. The rap songs that I do like are the ones I like musically, and that is usually because they are based on an older song (e.g. Coolio's Gangsta's Paradise) or on classical music (e.g. Xzibit's Papparazzi). I bet someone's going to hate me for bringing op Coolio [img]graemlins/lol.gif[/img]

01-03-2006, 06:25 PM	#5
Nekoscat Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: http://www.theafterlifels.com/ Gender: Posts: 2,690 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Points: 3,733.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 4,233.00 Donate	50 cent, hahahaha (I don't listen to rap) Neko^^

01-03-2006, 10:52 PM	#7
Damon King Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: US Posts: 862 Thanks: 2 Thanked 6 Times in 3 Posts Points: 7,758.89 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 7,758.89 Donate	Being one of musical background, I believe it is all on your preference. As Koga has said, not everyone likes to pay attention to lyrics. It depends on the style of music, some genres, like rock, focus more on the instrumentals of music, (though there are meaningful songs). Music at first was just sound, organized sound put together to make beautiful melodies, over time, it developed, through individual creativity and church hyms and the like. Early 1900s, you had jazz and such, in the mid 1950s rock emerged, of course country, and in the late 70s, you have the emergence of Rap. Rap became quickly the black man's expression of his feelings, being that most urban blacks could not relate to the messages/lyrics of rock and roll or country. Therefore, the emergence of this genre allowed many blacks to let out what they felt in a way we knew how. Until then, the only urban outpour for musical talents were R&B and Jazz. In short, lyrics are a big part of rap because of EXPRESSION. Through the years it was watered down to make money, hence these fake ass 50 Cents and Tony Yayo's, etc, in it for the money pretty much, no love for the art of the music. Anyway, I'm done.

01-04-2006, 01:19 AM	#8
Brandon2390 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Connecticut Posts: 10,370 Thanks: 5 Thanked 18 Times in 15 Posts Points: 37,567.54 Bank: 870.51 Total Points: 38,438.05 Donate	My apologies, I didnt mean others dont have any lyricism, I just meant it isn't as great as hip hop's. With that being said, I know that rap focuses mainly on lyrics and nothing else, thats why I made this topic. To me, lyrics are the most important aspect of a song. It may not be to others. And I know musically other genres are better, I didn't say otherwise. Thanks Capthayfever for showing me some examples though rather than just saying Yes, rock does have wordplay. I dont want you all to think I'm just a biased rap fan, the last cd I actually listened to all the way through was rock.(AFI) Anyway, I'll have more on this tommorow, but I couldn't sleep and decided to go online at 12:30 at night. [ January 04, 2006, 12:21 AM: Message edited by: Pious Augustus ]

01-04-2006, 11:03 PM	#9
Nick Banned Join Date: Dec 1969 Posts: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 10,344.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 10,844.00 Donate	Every genre really has its lyricists, they just tend to be drowned out by the talentless corporate hacks like generic rapper number 50 and the numerous clone bands.

01-22-2006, 05:40 PM	#10
Vinny Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The Fletcher Memorial Home for incurable tyrants and kings Posts: 7,262 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Points: 15,396.86 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 15,896.86 Donate	The thing is, by its very nature rap HAS to have good lyrics, because what's going on in the background is boring as hell, so if the lyrics can't back it up, then falls flat on its face. But the reason why rap doesn't appeal to me that much is because I think that the music itself is the most important thing, and good lyrics are only a bonus. I can and often do listen to completely instrumental music all day and enjoy every second of it. Yes, there's a lot of rap that's really clever, really intelligent, and very hard to replicate, but the monotonous backgrounds just don't cut it for me. Give me John Coltrane, Frank Zappa, and Jaco Pastorius (to name a few) any day.

01-22-2006, 08:44 PM	#11
*CaptHayfever* Smash Supermod Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: (n) - the place where I am Gender: Posts: 19,297 Thanks: 161 Thanked 740 Times in 479 Posts Points: 105,892.07 Bank: 942.27 Total Points: 106,834.35 Donate	Well, I listen to instrumentals as well, but good a capella or spoken-word pieces often find their way into my ears as well. I've also heard quite a good many rappers who put forth the effort to make quality backing music. The best songs in each genre have the best of both worlds in them. And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"