Communist mods? - Page 2

NineNineTen · 12-01-2002, 07:56 PM

People like Stalin and Ho Chi Minh were not true communists. They were all socialists.

jdcat · 12-01-2002, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Publicly Displayed Name:
Uhh...

imported_AJ Middleton · 12-01-2002, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 9910 is no Jay Resop:
People like Stalin and Ho Chi Minh were not true communists. They were all socialists.

Stalin was just crazy.

NineNineTen · 12-01-2002, 09:22 PM

No, Stalin was an autocratic capitalist that said he was a communist so people would like him.

***CaptHayfever*** · 12-01-2002, 09:29 PM

True communism would be a nearly utopian society.

Unfortunately, in practice, true communism has proved to be impossible as charismatic and/or influential leaders have taken over every commie country and twisted it to suit their own desires.

Also, communist takeovers have always been bloody, because they tend to happen in nations that already have dicators/emperors/etc who don't want to give up their power.

Plus, that whole "religion is the opiate of the masses" thing tends to tick people off, even if they support the other aspects of communism.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

Super Shy Guy · 12-01-2002, 09:46 PM

I never said Stalin was a true communist, did I? When I saw Yoshinator's name, I decided to steal his idea, so I thought up a random "communist"(I put it in quotes because he was really a ******* , see) leader, and now I'm Carter Stalin.

By the way, did you know that Stalin wasn't his real last name? Apparently it's a word that means "man of steel" or something. He wanted to make himself sound more powerful, so he changed his name.

Yoshinator · 12-01-2002, 10:22 PM

^Yes, which is a characteristic of a fascist dictator, ironically enough. Socialist is such a broad term. In Leninism, it's the stage before true Communism, but in most of its use today it just refers to anything that institutes government or collective ownership of property, such as universal health care, not the total Communist government like Soviet Russia.
The thing about Communist governments is that they are young. None are really that old. When our American government started out, it was pretty oppressive, too. As time goes on, Communist regimes become more democratic. Cuba is granting a lot more freedom of religion nowadays, just as the Soviet Union did shortly before its collapse. China is starting to ease up on trade laws to encourage growth. However, many "democracies" in the Middle East and Latin America commit atrocities rivaling that of Joseph Stalin(but not on such a massive scale, of course!).

-The Yoshinator

NineNineTen · 12-01-2002, 10:24 PM

The "religion is the opiate of the masses" thing is the only thing Marx said that I disagree with.

Introbulus · 12-02-2002, 08:53 AM

...I don't care what anyone says! This has nothing to do with NC at all!

...I also think Communism doesn't work (then again, neiter does Democracy!

)

Super Shy Guy · 12-02-2002, 06:50 PM

So? Half of the things on the front page don't have anything to do with NC.

imported_AJ Middleton · 12-02-2002, 10:30 PM

Communism could work! That human nature crap is BS. The problem is that all past communist regimes have been:
- mixed with a totalitarian government
- put into power by force abd bloodshed
If communism was accepted into power, it would work and coexist with democracy.

Yeah Carter, Lenin also changed his name. He did it after his exile in Siberia.

Introbulus · 12-02-2002, 10:48 PM

^That IS human nature! To be scared of that which is not understood and take power when it is available. Only a few very good humans can ignore this natural reflex all the time. Not to dismiss your idea, but I just wanted to clarify what I meant in the first place.

Edit: It's not that Communism can't work. It's that with too many people, there's bound to be some curruption (just look at the Roman empire).

[ December 02, 2002, 09:50 PM: Message edited by: Introbulus ]

Mista Massimiliano · 12-02-2002, 10:53 PM

...*shats on a turtle*
I'm not really sure what to say about this conversation....

A Genius · 12-03-2002, 08:45 AM

Communism was a good idea, but like true democracy, it only works in a small nation. Otherwise, everthing becomes far too complicated.

-A Genius (The USA is actually a Republic system.)

Introbulus · 12-03-2002, 10:07 AM

Yes! That's exactly what I meant!

...How did I ever let myself get dragged into this conversation?

imported_AJ Middleton · 12-03-2002, 06:09 PM

I don't think Rome tried to have a communist economic system.

NineNineTen · 12-03-2002, 06:15 PM

Comparing communism to democracy is a fallacy. Communism is an economic system and democracy is a political system. They have nothing in common.

Yoshinator · 12-03-2002, 08:54 PM

Yes, the argument would be communism or capitalism.

imported_Jonathan Resop · 12-03-2002, 10:26 PM

What a wacky topic for the NC Forum.-jay

Introbulus · 12-04-2002, 08:46 AM

I was reffering to the Roman's Governmental system, which WAS filled with corruption.

12-01-2002, 07:56 PM	#21
NineNineTen Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: I\'ll never tell ye! Posts: 199 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 747.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 1,247.00 Donate	People like Stalin and Ho Chi Minh were not true communists. They were all socialists.

12-01-2002, 09:22 PM	#24
NineNineTen Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: I\'ll never tell ye! Posts: 199 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 747.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 1,247.00 Donate	No, Stalin was an autocratic capitalist that said he was a communist so people would like him.

12-01-2002, 09:29 PM	#25
*CaptHayfever* Smash Supermod Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: (n) - the place where I am Gender: Posts: 19,594 Thanks: 188 Thanked 852 Times in 538 Posts Points: 112,625.21 Bank: 1,345.79 Total Points: 113,971.00 Donate	True communism would be a nearly utopian society. Unfortunately, in practice, true communism has proved to be impossible as charismatic and/or influential leaders have taken over every commie country and twisted it to suit their own desires. Also, communist takeovers have always been bloody, because they tend to happen in nations that already have dicators/emperors/etc who don't want to give up their power. Plus, that whole "religion is the opiate of the masses" thing tends to tick people off, even if they support the other aspects of communism. And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

12-01-2002, 09:46 PM	#26
Super Shy Guy Banned Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the seven seas Posts: 8,969 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 9,108.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 9,608.00 Donate	I never said Stalin was a true communist, did I? When I saw Yoshinator's name, I decided to steal his idea, so I thought up a random "communist"(I put it in quotes because he was really a ******* , see) leader, and now I'm Carter Stalin. By the way, did you know that Stalin wasn't his real last name? Apparently it's a word that means "man of steel" or something. He wanted to make himself sound more powerful, so he changed his name.

12-01-2002, 10:22 PM	#27
Yoshinator Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Amherst, MA Posts: 6,778 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 3,402.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 3,902.00 Donate	^Yes, which is a characteristic of a fascist dictator, ironically enough. Socialist is such a broad term. In Leninism, it's the stage before true Communism, but in most of its use today it just refers to anything that institutes government or collective ownership of property, such as universal health care, not the total Communist government like Soviet Russia. The thing about Communist governments is that they are young. None are really that old. When our American government started out, it was pretty oppressive, too. As time goes on, Communist regimes become more democratic. Cuba is granting a lot more freedom of religion nowadays, just as the Soviet Union did shortly before its collapse. China is starting to ease up on trade laws to encourage growth. However, many "democracies" in the Middle East and Latin America commit atrocities rivaling that of Joseph Stalin(but not on such a massive scale, of course!). -The Yoshinator

12-01-2002, 10:24 PM	#28
NineNineTen Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: I\'ll never tell ye! Posts: 199 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 747.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 1,247.00 Donate	The "religion is the opiate of the masses" thing is the only thing Marx said that I disagree with.

12-02-2002, 08:53 AM	#29
Introbulus Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Time, Space Posts: 4,159 Thanks: 2 Thanked 19 Times in 9 Posts Points: 4,827.70 Bank: 1,217.40 Total Points: 6,045.10 Donate	...I don't care what anyone says! This has nothing to do with NC at all! ...I also think Communism doesn't work (then again, neiter does Democracy! )

12-02-2002, 06:50 PM	#30
Super Shy Guy Banned Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the seven seas Posts: 8,969 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 9,108.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 9,608.00 Donate	So? Half of the things on the front page don't have anything to do with NC.

12-02-2002, 10:30 PM	#31
imported_AJ Middleton Join Date: Dec 1969 Posts: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 26.00 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 26.00 Donate	Communism could work! That human nature crap is BS. The problem is that all past communist regimes have been: - mixed with a totalitarian government - put into power by force abd bloodshed If communism was accepted into power, it would work and coexist with democracy. Yeah Carter, Lenin also changed his name. He did it after his exile in Siberia.

12-02-2002, 10:48 PM	#32
Introbulus Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Time, Space Posts: 4,159 Thanks: 2 Thanked 19 Times in 9 Posts Points: 4,827.70 Bank: 1,217.40 Total Points: 6,045.10 Donate	^That IS human nature! To be scared of that which is not understood and take power when it is available. Only a few very good humans can ignore this natural reflex all the time. Not to dismiss your idea, but I just wanted to clarify what I meant in the first place. Edit: It's not that Communism can't work. It's that with too many people, there's bound to be some curruption (just look at the Roman empire). [ December 02, 2002, 09:50 PM: Message edited by: Introbulus ]

12-02-2002, 10:53 PM	#33
Mista Massimiliano Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Guess. Posts: 3,486 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 1,026.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 1,526.00 Donate	...shats on a turtle I'm not really sure what to say about this conversation....

12-03-2002, 08:45 AM	#34
A Genius Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Place Posts: 2,657 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 2,815.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 3,315.00 Donate	Communism was a good idea, but like true democracy, it only works in a small nation. Otherwise, everthing becomes far too complicated. -A Genius (The USA is actually a Republic system.)

12-03-2002, 10:07 AM	#35
Introbulus Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Time, Space Posts: 4,159 Thanks: 2 Thanked 19 Times in 9 Posts Points: 4,827.70 Bank: 1,217.40 Total Points: 6,045.10 Donate	Yes! That's exactly what I meant! ...How did I ever let myself get dragged into this conversation?

12-03-2002, 06:09 PM	#36
imported_AJ Middleton Join Date: Dec 1969 Posts: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 26.00 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 26.00 Donate	I don't think Rome tried to have a communist economic system.

12-03-2002, 06:15 PM	#37
NineNineTen Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: I\'ll never tell ye! Posts: 199 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 747.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 1,247.00 Donate	Comparing communism to democracy is a fallacy. Communism is an economic system and democracy is a political system. They have nothing in common.

12-03-2002, 08:54 PM	#38
Yoshinator Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Amherst, MA Posts: 6,778 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 3,402.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 3,902.00 Donate	Yes, the argument would be communism or capitalism.

12-03-2002, 10:26 PM	#39
imported_Jonathan Resop Join Date: Dec 1969 Posts: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 1,083.00 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 1,083.00 Donate	What a wacky topic for the NC Forum.-jay

12-04-2002, 08:46 AM	#40
Introbulus Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Time, Space Posts: 4,159 Thanks: 2 Thanked 19 Times in 9 Posts Points: 4,827.70 Bank: 1,217.40 Total Points: 6,045.10 Donate	I was reffering to the Roman's Governmental system, which WAS filled with corruption.