3DS Discussion Thread (Formerly 3DS Announcement) - Page 13

Sim Kid · 01-10-2011, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tremble Rod

No$GBA works fine for me. I've used it to play Castlevania Dawn of Sorrow, Mario Kart DS, and NSMB.

Is there perhaps a site list that lists all the settings to get specific DS games working optimally?

Another question I have is did you get any of those games to save, when they have a saving feature? I'm trying to play Tales of Innocence because thats more or less the only way to get it out here. (Hey, there's a translation patch available.)

Rainbow Dash · 01-10-2011, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tremble Rod

If you're assuming I expect it to work without bugs, I don't. I'm expecting some basic tech demos.

then could you really call it an emulator?

**Valigarmander** · 01-11-2011, 05:53 PM

Nintendo 3DS Apparently Will Be Region-Locked

Dizzy · 01-11-2011, 06:33 PM

I'd assumed as much.

***Cosmonautical*** · 01-11-2011, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sim Kid

Is there perhaps a site list that lists all the settings to get specific DS games working optimally?

Another question I have is did you get any of those games to save, when they have a saving feature? I'm trying to play Tales of Innocence because thats more or less the only way to get it out here. (Hey, there's a translation patch available.)

The forum can be very helpful if you're having trouble.

The Load / Write snapshot functions are actually savestate functions, but they did not work for DS games last I was aware, so don't waste your time trying to get that to work.

Saves worked fine for me, last I recall.

Here's what a forum FAQ has to say about it:

Quote:

8.a Help I can't save my game?

You make saves in no$gba ingame as you would on a normal DS, after having set the correct savetype in 'Options->Emulation Setup->NDS Cartridge backup media'.
Make sure that you set the correct savetype, some games will load even on an incorrect savetype but then may not give you the ability to save or the save may become corrupt. Make sure that you have either reloaded or reset the game since you set the correct savetype.
Also please make sure that you have actually extracted no$gba to a folder and are not running it from it's archive as archives run from temporary folders so once you close the archive everything including no$gba's settings will be gone.
If none of the above applies then try removing all strange characters like spaces or dashes and the like from the game name and shortening it.
No$gba Snapshots (save states) at this stage only support GBA games so a snapshot made from a DS game will cause no$gba to crash upon loading.
If no$gba crashes (like it does in Mario and Luigi - Partners in Time in version 2.6) upon saving then I am afraid that the game is then simply unplayable at this time.
The 2 Questions below and this question sort of go hand in hand so if none of the above applies please read the answer to the question below as well.

Quote:

8.b Help I lost my save data?

First make sure that the correct savetype for the game is set and that you have since reset or reloaded your game. Also be aware that some games when started with the incorrect savetype may erase your save data and that you will then have to start from the beginning again or your last backup which you stored somewhere else.
Your save must have the exact same name as your game so if you rename the one make sure to rename the other accordingly.
Certain games appear to save even when using an incorrect savetype but it's best to always make sure to use the correct one as when using an incorrect one you may suddenly just find that it stops working one day.
Also note that saves are only written to the harddrive when either reloading the game (not resetting), loading another game or exiting the emulator. If your emulator closes abnormally or crashes then all your save data for that session will be lost and your starting point will be the last save that was written to the harddrive.
Occasionally saves can become corrupt aswell and become irrecoverable so I recommend that you backup (make copies of) the saves from the battery folder inside your no$gba folder to a different location on a regular basis.
Make sure that your save and the game have the same name.
I recommend reloading the game you are playing after every second or third save to make sure that the save is written to the harddrive incase your game crashes.
The Questions above and below this question sort of go hand in hand so if none of the above applies then please read the answer to the questions above and below as well.

In short: You have to make sure you set the backup media type appropriately. If you don't know what type your game uses, you'll have to look it up. The save file and rom file names should match. Makes sure you SAVE the options/settings for the emu using the menu button, after setting the backup memory.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chunky Kong12345

then could you really call it an emulator?

If the software runs on both the DS and the emulator, of course.

Rainbow Dash · 01-11-2011, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tremble Rod

If the software runs on both the DS and the emulator, of course.

so wait are you saying you want it to run tech demos or full games

Sim Kid · 01-12-2011, 01:54 AM

@AI. Thanks. Doh, for some reason it's crashing whenever I try to save. >.<; ugh. I'm goign to lok around to see how someone else managed to get it to work.

I am nobody · 01-12-2011, 04:31 AM

I thought we didn't talk about this stuff here, but as long as we are....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chunky Kong12345

considering how no ds emulator works very well yet i dont see how that will be true!

DeSmuME works almost perfectly if your computer can handle it. You don't need to change settings to get games to work and saving works either in game or with File>Save, (which can save anywhere) so it seems like it's simpler than No$GBA as well.

Robotazy · 01-12-2011, 04:52 AM

Well, we endorse, but as long as you don't care, you might as get the best emulator. >_>

Really, do Computers have 3d screens yet? I suppose so, but if they don't it'll be hard to emulate 3DS perfectly anyway.

Also, I don't care because I couldn't run it anyway, because all my computers are either broken, or old. <_>

Jere · 01-12-2011, 05:45 AM

the 3d is adjustable so i don't see why not you can't emulate, it means no 3D!!! But i think it's not that much of a loss.

***Cosmonautical*** · 01-12-2011, 08:01 AM

3D has been around for aaaaages on PC. I have a pair of shutter glasses that I got in 2001, for use with standard CRT screens. I have a Virtual Boy emulator that is compatible with most 3D hardware. Nvidia themselves have a "3D Vision" in-house solution that they have started promoting in the past 2 years or so, and many new LCD monitors support a refresh rate of 120hz to provide a constant 120fps rate, 60 for each eye. Some consumer-end projectors being sold work based on the same polarized light principles as those in theaters, while others are promoted as compatible with the traditional shutter-based format. VR headsets with full head-motion-tracking (ideal for FPS) are available for under 400 dollars, less than the price of a 3D screen.

If anything, mainstream 3D is so behind the curve it's ridiculous. The hype surrounding it is entirely engineered, and it has simply become recognisable to the larger media machines to catch the eyes of previously oblivious consumers.

BTW, it is entirely possible for Nintendo to update and port Virtual Boy games like 3D Tetris and Wario Land for play on the 3DS.

Jere · 01-12-2011, 08:49 AM

Ok, but i still don't think that it will run very smooth, at least not the first versions, Im not familiar with the way Nintendo uses autostereoscopic and after a run down with Wikipedia Im not much more enlightens.

But it made me think how a regular LCD/old thick computer screen would react to a 3d mode effect and how will windowed mode work (if it's plausible) will the whole screen go 3d mode or will only that part be 3d mode.

It's nothing that i can't wait and just see how stuff would unfold, but im a bit curious on this particular subject.

***Cosmonautical*** · 01-12-2011, 09:38 AM

It would be unnecessary to attempt to emulate the 3-dimensional screen format that Nintendo is using, until such 3D screens are commonly available in a PC format. Up until then, a 3D emulator would simply re-translate data to be displayed in a traditional format via PC drivers in the same manner that any standard PC game is displayed.

Before emulation of both eye displays is perfected, it would be work well to emulate the 2D mode of the 3DS. The PC drivers for 3D display can be automated to display any potential visuals in 3D, just as they are automated to display any possible visuals at all.

And yes, Windowed graphics in 3D with shutter glasses work perfectly fine. The default Nvidia 3D test is windowed.

Of course the emulator will be slow to start, and it will probably be a few years before PC's have enough power to dependably emulate the visual system and not just the general CPU functions.

But for the people slavering over stuff like 3D OoT, if you wanted to right now you could go out and buy a 3D glasses set and screen for your pc and run a Direct3D-based emulator with forced 3D. You could run the game with one of the high res texture packs, and get a game with much much higher texture detail than the 3DS version is offering. It would likely have 2D HUD issues, and the pre-rendered indoor screens would not function in 3D, but you could see the 3D sections of the game in full depth, nonetheless. All the drivers do is alternate frames for the left and right eye - for the right eye, the camera moves a little right. For the left eye, the camera moves a little left.

You could probably even tweak an emulated Twilight Princess or Wind Waker to display in 3D with minimal effort, if you were so inclined. It's not magic, and it's not based on fantastic new technology. The games designed with the intent of displaying in 3D will not have menu depth issues like those forced in 3D, but there have been plenty of games with full 3D capability on PC for decades, now.

In the meantime, and without special tech, you could probably download a driver for side-by-side, cross-eye display. That's what it sounds like: two images displayed side by side, you cross your eyes inward as though focusing on a close-up object to make the images line up as one.

Don't try this if you've got eye problems, because I don't doubt you could hurt yourself if you have poor eyesight. You can give it a shot right now if you want, though, with these pictures, but don't say I didn't warn you. It's easiest done if you do it from a comfortable distance where the images appear smaller to you, because there is less distance for you to cross your eyes:

Laaaaaaaaaaaaaastly, here's a 3DS promo shot of Zelda, itself:

There's quite a few more up here, if you're interested:
Nintendo 3DS Blog: 3D Screenshots

Please be aware, though, that the depth of the 3DS display, like PC depth, will be adjustable to the user's preference. The 3DS cross-eye screens here are quite shallow, probably to suit a wider audience. It is likely, even, that the screens were originally 2D and have been doctored to work in 3D, as the objects are notably flat and some foreground objects appear to be cutting into objects that should be toward the back - the technology to convert a 2D image into low-quality 3D image already exists.

Sim Kid · 01-12-2011, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I am nobody

DeSmuME works almost perfectly if your computer can handle it. You don't need to change settings to get games to work and saving works either in game or with File>Save, (which can save anywhere) so it seems like it's simpler than No$GBA as well.

I have some lag with DeSmuME except for some reason when I try to get the menu up for Tales of Innocence it doesn't display it. D:<

okay anyways, zeeky boogy doog. *Nuclear explosion* Back on topic.

***CaptHayfever*** · 01-12-2011, 10:07 PM

^^The issue I always have with those is the cel glow; I can see the 3D effect just fine, but everything just ends up looking disconnected from everything else.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

***Cosmonautical*** · 01-12-2011, 11:03 PM

I know what you mean about disconnectedness (the doctored 3DS screens have that in spades), but that's a totally inappropriate term to apply here. If something is obviously cel-animated against a beautifully rendered background, that's an audience awareness issue. The disconnectedness you're experiencing has nothing to do with audiences predicting action.

***CaptHayfever*** · 01-13-2011, 01:49 PM

Okay, how about "layered"? It's like the pipes & stairs & stuff in that factory picture are all just a bunch of stickers placed onto the background.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

***Cosmonautical*** · 01-14-2011, 12:13 AM

Yeah, because the image depth is rather low, most minor differences in depth will simply look flat, partly because of the low resolution of the images and partly because of the angles chosen to make the pictures comfortable to look at via cross-eye..

Kargath · 01-14-2011, 09:22 AM

The problem with emulating the 3DS is that it involves a lot of specialist kit to get working fully. You need:

three webcams
joystick with button collection
3D-capable screen and glasses
a microphone
A high-accuracy mouse or a properly configured WACOM tablet
a usb gyroscope (!?!)
a keyboard with full n-key rollover, if possible

It's just easier to buy the actual device.
What Nintendo needs to worry about is another R4 or similar device.

***Cosmonautical*** · 01-14-2011, 10:13 AM

You know that's not going to discourage people from trying.
The gyroscopic functions aren't necessarily going to be in use in most software. The touch screen on the DS is already emulated via mouse, no problems. The joystick/gamepads are typical of most PC gamers. Microphones are still rarely used. Cameras aren't likely to be necessary to gameplay. Standard screens are already compatible with forms of 3D. 3D is probably altogether unnecessary to play the games, anyway.

01-12-2011, 09:38 AM	#253
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,100 Thanks: 2,151 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	It would be unnecessary to attempt to emulate the 3-dimensional screen format that Nintendo is using, until such 3D screens are commonly available in a PC format. Up until then, a 3D emulator would simply re-translate data to be displayed in a traditional format via PC drivers in the same manner that any standard PC game is displayed. Before emulation of both eye displays is perfected, it would be work well to emulate the 2D mode of the 3DS. The PC drivers for 3D display can be automated to display any potential visuals in 3D, just as they are automated to display any possible visuals at all. And yes, Windowed graphics in 3D with shutter glasses work perfectly fine. The default Nvidia 3D test is windowed. Of course the emulator will be slow to start, and it will probably be a few years before PC's have enough power to dependably emulate the visual system and not just the general CPU functions. But for the people slavering over stuff like 3D OoT, if you wanted to right now you could go out and buy a 3D glasses set and screen for your pc and run a Direct3D-based emulator with forced 3D. You could run the game with one of the high res texture packs, and get a game with much much higher texture detail than the 3DS version is offering. It would likely have 2D HUD issues, and the pre-rendered indoor screens would not function in 3D, but you could see the 3D sections of the game in full depth, nonetheless. All the drivers do is alternate frames for the left and right eye - for the right eye, the camera moves a little right. For the left eye, the camera moves a little left. You could probably even tweak an emulated Twilight Princess or Wind Waker to display in 3D with minimal effort, if you were so inclined. It's not magic, and it's not based on fantastic new technology. The games designed with the intent of displaying in 3D will not have menu depth issues like those forced in 3D, but there have been plenty of games with full 3D capability on PC for decades, now. In the meantime, and without special tech, you could probably download a driver for side-by-side, cross-eye display. That's what it sounds like: two images displayed side by side, you cross your eyes inward as though focusing on a close-up object to make the images line up as one. Don't try this if you've got eye problems, because I don't doubt you could hurt yourself if you have poor eyesight. You can give it a shot right now if you want, though, with these pictures, but don't say I didn't warn you. It's easiest done if you do it from a comfortable distance where the images appear smaller to you, because there is less distance for you to cross your eyes: Laaaaaaaaaaaaaastly, here's a 3DS promo shot of Zelda, itself: There's quite a few more up here, if you're interested: Nintendo 3DS Blog: 3D Screenshots Please be aware, though, that the depth of the 3DS display, like PC depth, will be adjustable to the user's preference. The 3DS cross-eye screens here are quite shallow, probably to suit a wider audience. It is likely, even, that the screens were originally 2D and have been doctored to work in 3D, as the objects are notably flat and some foreground objects appear to be cutting into objects that should be toward the back - the technology to convert a 2D image into low-quality 3D image already exists. Last edited by Cosmonautical; 01-12-2011 at 10:00 AM.

01-14-2011, 09:22 AM	#259
Kargath et in Arcadia ego Join Date: Jul 2001 Gender: Posts: 8,334 Thanks: 1,226 Thanked 780 Times in 488 Posts	The problem with emulating the 3DS is that it involves a lot of specialist kit to get working fully. You need: three webcams joystick with button collection 3D-capable screen and glasses a microphone A high-accuracy mouse or a properly configured WACOM tablet a usb gyroscope (!?!) a keyboard with full n-key rollover, if possible It's just easier to buy the actual device. What Nintendo needs to worry about is another R4 or similar device.

01-11-2011, 05:53 PM	#243
Valigarmander The Bee's Knees Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The land of rain and trees (Oregon) Gender: Posts: 29,755 Thanks: 1,649 Thanked 5,700 Times in 2,580 Posts Blog Entries: 20	Nintendo 3DS Apparently Will Be Region-Locked

01-11-2011, 06:33 PM	#244
Dizzy Podiaphobe Join Date: Oct 2007 Gender: Posts: 19,359 Thanks: 1,764 Thanked 1,161 Times in 804 Posts Blog Entries: 116	I'd assumed as much.

01-12-2011, 01:54 AM	#247
Sim Kid Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: The state of Denial Gender: Posts: 8,884 Thanks: 80 Thanked 198 Times in 122 Posts	@AI. Thanks. Doh, for some reason it's crashing whenever I try to save. >.<; ugh. I'm goign to lok around to see how someone else managed to get it to work.

01-12-2011, 04:52 AM	#249
Robotazy PRESS ANY KEY TO PANIC! Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: A Tiny Shed Gender: Posts: 16,483 Thanks: 529 Thanked 1,254 Times in 897 Posts Blog Entries: 46	Well, we endorse, but as long as you don't care, you might as get the best emulator. >_> Really, do Computers have 3d screens yet? I suppose so, but if they don't it'll be hard to emulate 3DS perfectly anyway. Also, I don't care because I couldn't run it anyway, because all my computers are either broken, or old. <_>

01-12-2011, 05:45 AM	#250
Jere Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sutme Gender: Posts: 3,648 Thanks: 404 Thanked 331 Times in 256 Posts Blog Entries: 3	the 3d is adjustable so i don't see why not you can't emulate, it means no 3D!!! But i think it's not that much of a loss.

01-12-2011, 08:01 AM	#251
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,100 Thanks: 2,151 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	3D has been around for aaaaages on PC. I have a pair of shutter glasses that I got in 2001, for use with standard CRT screens. I have a Virtual Boy emulator that is compatible with most 3D hardware. Nvidia themselves have a "3D Vision" in-house solution that they have started promoting in the past 2 years or so, and many new LCD monitors support a refresh rate of 120hz to provide a constant 120fps rate, 60 for each eye. Some consumer-end projectors being sold work based on the same polarized light principles as those in theaters, while others are promoted as compatible with the traditional shutter-based format. VR headsets with full head-motion-tracking (ideal for FPS) are available for under 400 dollars, less than the price of a 3D screen. If anything, mainstream 3D is so behind the curve it's ridiculous. The hype surrounding it is entirely engineered, and it has simply become recognisable to the larger media machines to catch the eyes of previously oblivious consumers. BTW, it is entirely possible for Nintendo to update and port Virtual Boy games like 3D Tetris and Wario Land for play on the 3DS.

01-12-2011, 08:49 AM	#252
Jere Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sutme Gender: Posts: 3,648 Thanks: 404 Thanked 331 Times in 256 Posts Blog Entries: 3	Ok, but i still don't think that it will run very smooth, at least not the first versions, Im not familiar with the way Nintendo uses autostereoscopic and after a run down with Wikipedia Im not much more enlightens. But it made me think how a regular LCD/old thick computer screen would react to a 3d mode effect and how will windowed mode work (if it's plausible) will the whole screen go 3d mode or will only that part be 3d mode. It's nothing that i can't wait and just see how stuff would unfold, but im a bit curious on this particular subject.

01-12-2011, 10:07 PM	#255
*CaptHayfever* Smash SuperMod Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: (n) - the place where I am Gender: Posts: 27,659 Thanks: 1,991 Thanked 2,486 Times in 1,513 Posts	^^The issue I always have with those is the cel glow; I can see the 3D effect just fine, but everything just ends up looking disconnected from everything else. And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

01-12-2011, 11:03 PM	#256
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,100 Thanks: 2,151 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	I know what you mean about disconnectedness (the doctored 3DS screens have that in spades), but that's a totally inappropriate term to apply here. If something is obviously cel-animated against a beautifully rendered background, that's an audience awareness issue. The disconnectedness you're experiencing has nothing to do with audiences predicting action.

01-13-2011, 01:49 PM	#257
*CaptHayfever* Smash SuperMod Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: (n) - the place where I am Gender: Posts: 27,659 Thanks: 1,991 Thanked 2,486 Times in 1,513 Posts	Okay, how about "layered"? It's like the pipes & stairs & stuff in that factory picture are all just a bunch of stickers placed onto the background. And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

01-14-2011, 12:13 AM	#258
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,100 Thanks: 2,151 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	Yeah, because the image depth is rather low, most minor differences in depth will simply look flat, partly because of the low resolution of the images and partly because of the angles chosen to make the pictures comfortable to look at via cross-eye..

01-14-2011, 10:13 AM	#260
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,100 Thanks: 2,151 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	You know that's not going to discourage people from trying. The gyroscopic functions aren't necessarily going to be in use in most software. The touch screen on the DS is already emulated via mouse, no problems. The joystick/gamepads are typical of most PC gamers. Microphones are still rarely used. Cameras aren't likely to be necessary to gameplay. Standard screens are already compatible with forms of 3D. 3D is probably altogether unnecessary to play the games, anyway.