magic and psychic powers

Inferno Dragon · 03-03-2008, 10:59 AM

the forces of magic and psychic abilities... do they exist? well I can definately say that psychic abilities exist because I have precognative dreams, and I'm annoyed because mine are just mundane visions of stuff I'll be doing like a week after I have the dream, like right now last week I had a dream where I was typing this topic. and seeing as this is the most common of psychic abilities there's a good chance some of you have this power too.

magic, on the other hand, is a bit trickier to proove it's existance. hmm... how can I explain it. from my studies, and through meditation, I have found that magic isn't just a force that mages and wizards and those of the craft can call upon for spells, but is in fact what holds our universe together and binds us all to the universe. I guess a simpler way to explain it is to say it's like the force in the star wars universe.

but this is going up for the sake of discussion, I'd like to hear your opinions on magic and psyonics.

ZeldaGirl · 03-03-2008, 12:10 PM

I don't believe in the kind of magic you see in the movies - I wish it were real, but I do not believe it is.

I think what you are talking about is actually (somewhat) logically explained by science - the universe is held together by scientific things that are far too complex for myself to personally understand.

And everyone experiences Deja vu - I think I read something about their being a scientific explanation for that too. I'll have to re-look it up.

***Ace Mercury*** · 03-03-2008, 12:42 PM

Yeah, if magic is proven to exist, it's not magic any more. It's just something that happens. Just like when gravity causes mass to attract each other: that's not magic, it's just something we already know about.

In terms of precongnition, it's more likely that you're just having random dreams and you selectively remember the ones that come true. Dreams are usually of a mundane nature about things you would normally do or experience. It'd be weird if something didn't come true once in a while. Humans have this tendency to attribute things to cause and effect; sometimes we just make connections where none exist.

It'd be cool to have magic powers, though. It's the stuff dreams are made of.

**Deku Trii** · 03-03-2008, 12:54 PM

***Booyakasha*** · 03-03-2008, 01:33 PM

^James Randi would be proud.

Inferno Dragon · 03-05-2008, 02:10 AM

actually I think science might have prooven me right on this one, but you'd have to get deep into quantum mechanics and string theory to understand it. basicly, scientists have found that there is something that exists on a sub-atomic level that quarks and leptons are made of, and because this is as far down as anything can exist without ceasing to exist, we can deduce that this substance could very well be magic.

therefore, science has proven me right, to an extent. this new substance is what quarks and leptons are made of, which make up protons, neutrons and electrons which make up atoms which form into elements which form into matter that makes up the physical universe.

**Deku Trii** · 03-05-2008, 10:06 AM

Therefore science has proven you right? Because you "deduce" that sub-atomic particles are magic?

That's it, I'm outta here.

Inferno Dragon · 03-05-2008, 10:39 AM

I said to an extent, I didn't say completely. I could still be proven wrong because more scientific research is still needed to find a difinitive answer to what the basest component of the universe truely is. I'm just saying that you don't need to treat me like I'm an idiot because of my OPINION on what the basest thing in the universe is, something so small that it penetrates all known being, something that without it we would cease to exist. in my OPINION that thing is the energy/substance known as magic. until scientists can proove otherwise, I will stick to my OPINION.

but I'm still saying psychic abilities are real because my visions are starting to happen on a consistant nightly basis. as in each night I can see exactly what's going to happen to me the next day. does "deja vu" ever happen to any of you on a consistant nightly basis? usually I can controll what happens in my dreams but when a vision starts my dream goes on auto pilot until the vision is over then it goes to a new dream that I'm in controll of. I can't controll what happens in my visions and it pisses me off because I can't have a vision of a world changing event but I get visions of precice conversations between me and my friends or precise visions of what I'm typing on VGF or precise visions of me doing something in an exact way and when the visions come true I know it's happening and I want to stop it but my body won't let me stop it and that's why it pisses me off! I don't care if you guys believe me or not but I am telling the truth about these annoying visions of mine.

***Ace Mercury*** · 03-05-2008, 12:15 PM

Well, if you want to prove you have accurate vision, write down what someone will say in the future; if they do say it, and you report this thing regularly, then, sure, you might be some sort of "visionary". Make sure you're not experimenting after the fact; people say a lot of things during the course of a day, and it only makes sense that they will eventually say things you dreamed of.

As for magic, I think that we have differing definitions of the word "magic". It looks like your definition of magic is "things that compose matter", as opposed to my definition, which is "wacky **** that no one can explain".

***Booyakasha*** · 03-05-2008, 12:24 PM

My definition of magic is 'alakazam, you are a chicken!' I've run into quite a few self-styled 'witches' over the years, and none of them could just up and turn somebody into a frog, no matter how hagged and warty they were (and the 'witches' at gyppo carnivals are about as hagged and warty as it gets). Maybe their kind of magecraft is extremely subtle. Maybe my medallion of St. Michael prevents sorcerers from working their fell dweomer on me. Or maybe magic is a pile of crap. I guess any of the three are possible (note: it's the last one).

Inferno Dragon · 03-05-2008, 02:35 PM

obviously I haven't defined magic well enough. magic is not just the basest form of matter but it's also a form of energy and a force of nature and being a part of nature and the universe it is subject to the laws of physics and the universe. your explination, booyakasha, simply does not work as your version of magic would break the rules of the universe. yes magic can do some amazing things but it can't do the impossible like turning someone into a frog or things that defy nature.

certain requirements have to be met in order for a spell to work properly, like in chemestry. unless certain criteria are met in a specific way then magic can not be manipulated for a spell to be cast properly. and in some cases a certain spell will only work at a certain time or day of the year.

what it really boils down to is that when mages, wizards, wiccans, and whatnot tap into magic to perform a spell or to heal someone, what they are doing is a form of energy manipulation. because magic is an energy and the basest form of matter it can be used to heal wounds, change the weather, make fire, and a variety of other things because matter, as with energy, can not be created or destroyed, it can only change states. therefore one who can manipulate energy and matter through magic has the power alter energy and matter in a way that is possible in nature.

for example, healing a wound or curing a disease, since it is possible for a human to heal their own wounds and get over a disease over long periods of time, someone who is adept at magic can speed the process up by manipulating magic so that the wound is healed in a matter of seconds or a disease cured in a day.

however, because magic is an energy it requires the one manipulating it to exert the same ammount of energy to produce results. which is why the one manipulating magic will feel tired after the spell is cast.

does this make a little more sense?

***Booyakasha*** · 03-05-2008, 05:05 PM

^Yes. It makes perfect sense. Thank you for explaining how stupid fake 'magic' crap works in Cloudcuckooland. I'll be sure to tell all my unicorn friends about it later on when I'm feeding them gumdrops down by the ice cream river.

Inferno Dragon · 03-05-2008, 05:16 PM

why are you being such a jerk booyakasha?

***Ace Mercury*** · 03-05-2008, 05:46 PM

^^ Okay, this is the paranormal forum; even if you're a skeptic, please don't insult people who want to contribute.

***Booyakasha*** · 03-05-2008, 05:49 PM

Bah. Yeah, go ahead. Encourage ID's flight from reality, everyone. Because, you know, that's the nice thing to do.

Inferno Dragon · 03-05-2008, 06:09 PM

thanks ace. btw what do you think of my explanation of magic?

***Ace Mercury*** · 03-05-2008, 06:10 PM

^^ From experience, you can't change people's minds. Over the internet, doubly so. =\

^ Not substantial. It would be nice, but if it's reality, it should be testable. A good theory requires experiments and proof, of which there are none.

Inferno Dragon · 03-05-2008, 06:11 PM

hmm. once I can find evidence I'll back it up but right now my theory of how magic works is just that, a theory that's based on logical observation, deductive reasoning and an understanding of how the universe works. until I can proove it by finding a magic adept and letting scientists observe them in action.

***Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds*** · 03-05-2008, 06:13 PM

That was a bit out of line, Boo. Inferno didn't treat you disrespectfully, he only said that his beliefs state the magic you refer to isn't possible. Doesn't an opposite opinion always imply the other person is wrong? Try and play nicer, please.

***Ace Mercury*** · 03-05-2008, 06:17 PM

^^ With healing, I'm aware of the biological processes which go with it. Things like the immune system, cell division, protein synthesis, etc, these things are well-known and understood. There's not a lot of room for "magic" here.

03-03-2008, 10:59 AM	#1
Inferno Dragon Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Planet Draco Gender: Posts: 6,038 Thanks: 67 Thanked 36 Times in 29 Posts	magic and psychic powers the forces of magic and psychic abilities... do they exist? well I can definately say that psychic abilities exist because I have precognative dreams, and I'm annoyed because mine are just mundane visions of stuff I'll be doing like a week after I have the dream, like right now last week I had a dream where I was typing this topic. and seeing as this is the most common of psychic abilities there's a good chance some of you have this power too. magic, on the other hand, is a bit trickier to proove it's existance. hmm... how can I explain it. from my studies, and through meditation, I have found that magic isn't just a force that mages and wizards and those of the craft can call upon for spells, but is in fact what holds our universe together and binds us all to the universe. I guess a simpler way to explain it is to say it's like the force in the star wars universe. but this is going up for the sake of discussion, I'd like to hear your opinions on magic and psyonics.

03-03-2008, 12:54 PM	#4
Deku Trii PP&R Mod Current Events Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Texas Gender: Posts: 9,031 Thanks: 521 Thanked 1,099 Times in 583 Posts	The data so far

03-05-2008, 10:39 AM	#8
Inferno Dragon Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Planet Draco Gender: Posts: 6,038 Thanks: 67 Thanked 36 Times in 29 Posts	I said to an extent, I didn't say completely. I could still be proven wrong because more scientific research is still needed to find a difinitive answer to what the basest component of the universe truely is. I'm just saying that you don't need to treat me like I'm an idiot because of my OPINION on what the basest thing in the universe is, something so small that it penetrates all known being, something that without it we would cease to exist. in my OPINION that thing is the energy/substance known as magic. until scientists can proove otherwise, I will stick to my OPINION. but I'm still saying psychic abilities are real because my visions are starting to happen on a consistant nightly basis. as in each night I can see exactly what's going to happen to me the next day. does "deja vu" ever happen to any of you on a consistant nightly basis? usually I can controll what happens in my dreams but when a vision starts my dream goes on auto pilot until the vision is over then it goes to a new dream that I'm in controll of. I can't controll what happens in my visions and it pisses me off because I can't have a vision of a world changing event but I get visions of precice conversations between me and my friends or precise visions of what I'm typing on VGF or precise visions of me doing something in an exact way and when the visions come true I know it's happening and I want to stop it but my body won't let me stop it and that's why it pisses me off! I don't care if you guys believe me or not but I am telling the truth about these annoying visions of mine. Last edited by Inferno Dragon; 03-05-2008 at 11:10 AM.

03-05-2008, 12:24 PM	#10
*Booyakasha* SuperMod of War Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Wisconsinland Gender: Posts: 9,945 Thanks: 157 Thanked 1,481 Times in 763 Posts	My definition of magic is 'alakazam, you are a chicken!' I've run into quite a few self-styled 'witches' over the years, and none of them could just up and turn somebody into a frog, no matter how hagged and warty they were (and the 'witches' at gyppo carnivals are about as hagged and warty as it gets). Maybe their kind of magecraft is extremely subtle. Maybe my medallion of St. Michael prevents sorcerers from working their fell dweomer on me. Or maybe magic is a pile of crap. I guess any of the three are possible (note: it's the last one). Last edited by Booyakasha; 03-05-2008 at 12:32 PM.

03-05-2008, 05:05 PM	#12
*Booyakasha* SuperMod of War Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Wisconsinland Gender: Posts: 9,945 Thanks: 157 Thanked 1,481 Times in 763 Posts	^Yes. It makes perfect sense. Thank you for explaining how stupid fake 'magic' crap works in Cloudcuckooland. I'll be sure to tell all my unicorn friends about it later on when I'm feeding them gumdrops down by the ice cream river. Last edited by Booyakasha; 03-05-2008 at 05:11 PM.

03-03-2008, 12:10 PM	#2
ZeldaGirl Awesome member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Why do YOU want to know...? Gender: Posts: 15,896 Thanks: 1,130 Thanked 1,919 Times in 1,046 Posts	I don't believe in the kind of magic you see in the movies - I wish it were real, but I do not believe it is. I think what you are talking about is actually (somewhat) logically explained by science - the universe is held together by scientific things that are far too complex for myself to personally understand. And everyone experiences Deja vu - I think I read something about their being a scientific explanation for that too. I'll have to re-look it up.

03-03-2008, 12:42 PM	#3
*Ace Mercury* Marshmallow Knight ☆ Supermod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Southern Ontario Gender: Posts: 23,274 Thanks: 568 Thanked 3,297 Times in 1,582 Posts Blog Entries: 1	Yeah, if magic is proven to exist, it's not magic any more. It's just something that happens. Just like when gravity causes mass to attract each other: that's not magic, it's just something we already know about. In terms of precongnition, it's more likely that you're just having random dreams and you selectively remember the ones that come true. Dreams are usually of a mundane nature about things you would normally do or experience. It'd be weird if something didn't come true once in a while. Humans have this tendency to attribute things to cause and effect; sometimes we just make connections where none exist. It'd be cool to have magic powers, though. It's the stuff dreams are made of.

03-03-2008, 01:33 PM	#5
*Booyakasha* SuperMod of War Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Wisconsinland Gender: Posts: 9,945 Thanks: 157 Thanked 1,481 Times in 763 Posts	^James Randi would be proud.

03-05-2008, 02:10 AM	#6
Inferno Dragon Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Planet Draco Gender: Posts: 6,038 Thanks: 67 Thanked 36 Times in 29 Posts	actually I think science might have prooven me right on this one, but you'd have to get deep into quantum mechanics and string theory to understand it. basicly, scientists have found that there is something that exists on a sub-atomic level that quarks and leptons are made of, and because this is as far down as anything can exist without ceasing to exist, we can deduce that this substance could very well be magic. therefore, science has proven me right, to an extent. this new substance is what quarks and leptons are made of, which make up protons, neutrons and electrons which make up atoms which form into elements which form into matter that makes up the physical universe.

03-05-2008, 10:06 AM	#7
Deku Trii PP&R Mod Current Events Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Texas Gender: Posts: 9,031 Thanks: 521 Thanked 1,099 Times in 583 Posts	Therefore science has proven you right? Because you "deduce" that sub-atomic particles are magic? That's it, I'm outta here.

03-05-2008, 12:15 PM	#9
*Ace Mercury* Marshmallow Knight ☆ Supermod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Southern Ontario Gender: Posts: 23,274 Thanks: 568 Thanked 3,297 Times in 1,582 Posts Blog Entries: 1	Well, if you want to prove you have accurate vision, write down what someone will say in the future; if they do say it, and you report this thing regularly, then, sure, you might be some sort of "visionary". Make sure you're not experimenting after the fact; people say a lot of things during the course of a day, and it only makes sense that they will eventually say things you dreamed of. As for magic, I think that we have differing definitions of the word "magic". It looks like your definition of magic is "things that compose matter", as opposed to my definition, which is "wacky **** that no one can explain".

03-05-2008, 02:35 PM	#11
Inferno Dragon Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Planet Draco Gender: Posts: 6,038 Thanks: 67 Thanked 36 Times in 29 Posts	obviously I haven't defined magic well enough. magic is not just the basest form of matter but it's also a form of energy and a force of nature and being a part of nature and the universe it is subject to the laws of physics and the universe. your explination, booyakasha, simply does not work as your version of magic would break the rules of the universe. yes magic can do some amazing things but it can't do the impossible like turning someone into a frog or things that defy nature. certain requirements have to be met in order for a spell to work properly, like in chemestry. unless certain criteria are met in a specific way then magic can not be manipulated for a spell to be cast properly. and in some cases a certain spell will only work at a certain time or day of the year. what it really boils down to is that when mages, wizards, wiccans, and whatnot tap into magic to perform a spell or to heal someone, what they are doing is a form of energy manipulation. because magic is an energy and the basest form of matter it can be used to heal wounds, change the weather, make fire, and a variety of other things because matter, as with energy, can not be created or destroyed, it can only change states. therefore one who can manipulate energy and matter through magic has the power alter energy and matter in a way that is possible in nature. for example, healing a wound or curing a disease, since it is possible for a human to heal their own wounds and get over a disease over long periods of time, someone who is adept at magic can speed the process up by manipulating magic so that the wound is healed in a matter of seconds or a disease cured in a day. however, because magic is an energy it requires the one manipulating it to exert the same ammount of energy to produce results. which is why the one manipulating magic will feel tired after the spell is cast. does this make a little more sense?

03-05-2008, 05:16 PM	#13
Inferno Dragon Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Planet Draco Gender: Posts: 6,038 Thanks: 67 Thanked 36 Times in 29 Posts	why are you being such a jerk booyakasha?

03-05-2008, 05:46 PM	#14
*Ace Mercury* Marshmallow Knight ☆ Supermod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Southern Ontario Gender: Posts: 23,274 Thanks: 568 Thanked 3,297 Times in 1,582 Posts Blog Entries: 1	^^ Okay, this is the paranormal forum; even if you're a skeptic, please don't insult people who want to contribute.

03-05-2008, 05:49 PM	#15
*Booyakasha* SuperMod of War Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Wisconsinland Gender: Posts: 9,945 Thanks: 157 Thanked 1,481 Times in 763 Posts	Bah. Yeah, go ahead. Encourage ID's flight from reality, everyone. Because, you know, that's the nice thing to do. Last edited by Booyakasha; 03-05-2008 at 06:05 PM.

03-05-2008, 06:09 PM	#16
Inferno Dragon Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Planet Draco Gender: Posts: 6,038 Thanks: 67 Thanked 36 Times in 29 Posts	thanks ace. btw what do you think of my explanation of magic?

03-05-2008, 06:10 PM	#17
*Ace Mercury* Marshmallow Knight ☆ Supermod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Southern Ontario Gender: Posts: 23,274 Thanks: 568 Thanked 3,297 Times in 1,582 Posts Blog Entries: 1	^^ From experience, you can't change people's minds. Over the internet, doubly so. =\ ^ Not substantial. It would be nice, but if it's reality, it should be testable. A good theory requires experiments and proof, of which there are none.

03-05-2008, 06:11 PM	#18
Inferno Dragon Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Planet Draco Gender: Posts: 6,038 Thanks: 67 Thanked 36 Times in 29 Posts	hmm. once I can find evidence I'll back it up but right now my theory of how magic works is just that, a theory that's based on logical observation, deductive reasoning and an understanding of how the universe works. until I can proove it by finding a magic adept and letting scientists observe them in action. Last edited by Inferno Dragon; 03-05-2008 at 06:18 PM.

03-05-2008, 06:13 PM	#19
*Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds* Admin "mine.. not yours. NO. MINE." Epic Ladynerd Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Forteresse de Valois Gender: Posts: 28,504 Thanks: 1,658 Thanked 1,820 Times in 1,042 Posts	That was a bit out of line, Boo. Inferno didn't treat you disrespectfully, he only said that his beliefs state the magic you refer to isn't possible. Doesn't an opposite opinion always imply the other person is wrong? Try and play nicer, please.

03-05-2008, 06:17 PM	#20
*Ace Mercury* Marshmallow Knight ☆ Supermod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Southern Ontario Gender: Posts: 23,274 Thanks: 568 Thanked 3,297 Times in 1,582 Posts Blog Entries: 1	^^ With healing, I'm aware of the biological processes which go with it. Things like the immune system, cell division, protein synthesis, etc, these things are well-known and understood. There's not a lot of room for "magic" here.