Salamence moved from OU to UBER

[Vgfian]

S'true.

Salamence (D/P) - Smogon University

From what I've heard the game should be AT LEAST changed in the following ways:

Originally Posted by BraveNewWorld

Scizor is expected to be used less.
Shaymin will be bumped to OU
Breloom, Dragonite, Celebi, and Flygon will see a increase in usage
Heatran will become a new dominant force

Thoughts?


Spoiler Below

My info came from here: Bye Salamence - The Pallet Tribune

[Valigarmander]

Makes me glad I'll have a use for Heatran.

[Robotazy]

Click to view video.

[Jailbreaker]

You're saying that those ways are how it will change from 4th to 5th gens?

Good. I like Breloom.

[Marchie]

I dunno if this is exactly worth posting. I certainly keep an eye on stuff like this but no one here is a really a hardcore competitive battler.

[X-3]

Now joking about Garchomp won't be as much fun.
Maybe I can state ways he's cooler than Salamence.

[Rainbow Dash]

what is ou

[Marchie]

^Exactly, haha.

[dogman]

salemance is cool so is garchamp their both very good pokemon yea they take a lot of time to evolve them

[Valigarmander]

^^ Old & Useless

[Rainbow Dash]

Originally Posted by Valigarmander

^^ Old & Useless

like a certain someone i know

[Glux]

Remind me why people can't just use whatever Pokémon they want?

[X-3]

People can use whatever Pokemon they want.

This lengthy thing I found on TVTropes's page on Character Tiers had a good look at Pokemon's tiers.

Originally Posted by Character Tiers

-Pokemon, despite the fact that its technically got 493 characters of varying balance, has taken to heart the game's preaching of using your favorite pokemon. The most well-known tier system, Smogon's, organizes all pokemon into 4-5 tiers, with tournaments and friendly battles taking place in any one of the tiers.

-First off is the Uber tier. This tier can be seen as a ban list, as pokemon in it are only in there so the rest of the metagame doesn't suffer. Pokemon in it are either too powerful (Mewtwo), too versatile (Mew), too broken (Wobbuffet), or too game centralizing (Garchomp). Pokemon in this tier can not be used in any competitive battle unless the rules specifically allow it, or the players agree to use them.

->Erm, actually there is a ban list, which is also the God tier. I'm not kidding. The only Pokemon in said tier is Arceus, which is God. Unless a special clause is activated on Smogon, it's banned from all levels of competitiv play. The fact that the only legal Arceus at this point start at level 100 making any E Vs illegal also gets it this treatment.

-Second is the Over Used tier. This tier is composed of the pokemon that have been used the most, based on data gathered by Smogon's battling simulator Shoddy Battle. As you might expect, these are basically the best pokemon by stats (not counting Uber pokemon of course). In Over Used tier battles, only pokemon from the Overused tier and below are allowed.

-In between Over Used and Under Used in the Borderline tier, pokemon that are too strong for Under Used but not strong enough for Over Used.

-Third is the Under Used tier. This tier is composed of pokemon that are occasionally used. The pokemon in this tier usually have a problem or two that prevents them from being used easily, or have pokemon in the upper tiers that fulfill the same purpose, but do it better. In Under Used tier battles, only pokemon from the Under Used tier and below are allowed.

-Fourth is the Never Used tier. This tier isn't actually composed of pokemon that are never used, but the pokemon in them are simply rarely used due to a variety of different reasons, from stat problems (Pikachu can dish it out, but it just can't take a hit), to actually being useless (Unown). As such, you'll find that many pokemon in this tier serve purposes that pokemon in higher tiers can do better. In Never Used tier battles, only pokemon in the Never Used tier can be used.
Inside the Never Used tiers is the Not Fully Evolved tier, which is full of pokemon that haven't fully evolved. As such, they are at a huge disadvantage (usually; there are notable exceptions, such as Pikachu or Chansey).

-Anyway, this tier system allows basically any pokemon to be used competitvely, as it won't have to deal with battling foes that are simply too strong for it. A removal of the tier system, which many a misinformed newcomer calls for, would remove this, forcing everyone into using Ubers and O Us.

-As a final note, it's worth noting that tiers are constantly changing as data is collected from Shoddy Battle and as new games are released. A good example is Charizard. Formerly in the Over Used tier, the release of the 4th generation, and the move Stealth Rock (deals damage to pokemon switching in depending on its resistance to Rock) dropped it down to the Never Used tier, as Stealth Rock lowered its HP to the point that its most common strategy (sacrificing HP for Substitute and Belly Drum) left it at the point that any attack would instantly faint it.

-It is also worth noting that other than banlist tiers (Uber and Borderline), the placement of a pokemon is determined exclusively by their frequency of usage, and thus a high tier pokemon is simply one that is more used in a high tier environment. It also means that, aside from the aforementioned banlist tiers, the tiers are completely objective (as opposed to many other tier lists out there).

(blahblahblahyouhatethispost)

[CaptHayfever]

^Who wastes their time using Substitute on a Pokemon that can Fly?

And remember, "I'm-a Charizard, number, well, six."

[X-3]

I imagine a lot of people would. Substitute is pretty cool, but Fly is...not as much I suppose. There's several moves that can hit a flying foe, like...Stone Edge and Bullet Punch.

[Vgfian]

^Fly could technically be used well if you're good at predicting, or you have mean look. (or you could just surprise somebody because you're using effing fly :/)
It's just easily dodged. It could force a switchout if it would kill the opponent I suppose, but priority moves are usually preferred to just kill the enemy anyway.
Its got its trade offs. Personally I'd like to find a way to incorporate it into my own teams actually.

Also, sub takes up 1 quarter of the total HP.
Also, also, you can still be hit by some moves while airbourn as well as underground.

[Rainbow Dash]

Originally Posted by CaptHayfever

^Who wastes their time using Substitute on a Pokemon that can Fly?

And remember, "I'm-a Charizard, number, well, six."

i know a certain elite four member who uses substitute against pokemon that can fly

god damnit bruno

[heh]

Originally Posted by Glutexo

Remind me why people can't just use whatever Pokémon they want?

of course you can use whatever pokemon you want. just like you don't have to pick fox in ssbm (bwahahahaha)




also i use to pay attention to PRO POKEMANS back when we only had R/S and a good cilent that didn't crash everytime i booted it up or have horrible interface problems. (or having to grind up my pokemons manually and teach them all the moves i wanted, sometimes requiring eggs to do so, other times getting ****ed over because i already used the tm i needed and gaaaaaaaahhh **** trying to have a "pro" team in the actual game)

also stealth rock didn't exist (worst move)


anyway, a pokemon that is considered "uber" is basically "banned". Uber Tier battles is basically everything goes, banned pokemon aloud. The pokemon in this list are banned because if they weren't, noone would use any other pokemon, and only ~20 pokemon would be viable.

"OU" Tier is just "you can use any pokemon, except banned ones (ubers). A pokemon in the "OU" tier is basically "top tier, but not actually overpowered". OUs are banned in UU battles though.

"UU" is "waaaa my favorite pokemon sucks, ban everyone stronger so i can use my little babby without getting owned". Pokemon in this tier are generally just not good enough to compete with the OU pokemon, often because they are overshadowed by some other pokemon (sorry cloyser, your typing sucks and skarmory or claydol are basically better in every way), or in D/P because they are 4x weak to Rock (charizard loses 50% health on switch in if stealth rock is up, no longer has enough health to use belly drum or enough time to use sword dance or substute/endure, useless).

Then there is NU (pokemon who suck so much they aren't even in UU battles), and then theres bull**** like Borderline OU and borderline UU and tons of other tier bull**** not even ssbm tier whiners would care about, basically everyone plays OU and sometimes Ubers.

personally i want to see Stealth Rock moved up to uber as the first ever banned move because stealth rock is the reason the D/P pro metagame sucks and single handily invalidates most pokemon weak to it. oh and it stacks with Spikes.

EE: only person who half-cares in this thread :smug:

EEE: also substitute is way better then fly.

[LASER BEAR ASSAULT UNIT]

iirc marchie used stealth rock against me a few times, and i was all noooo my vespiquen

[Vgfian]

Don't remember it bothering me that much, meh.
Either because I was ignorant of how important that HP was, or I was able to get my pokemon out before they put it up and just pwn them...or my pokemon just shrugged off the damage.

(But then again, I've lost much more than I've won.)
(But then againx2, I beat Marchie once with NU because he gave me an extra turn to agility-pass to a Rampardos(<3) while he was laying down stealth rock. I should note I've never beaten Marchie since though.)