Fahrenheit 9/11 - Page 2 - VGF

Jonathan Resop · 06-22-2004, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Link2000:
http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/

An article that slams the movie.

Wow, that's a pretty good article. Moore is a complete nut.-jay

***ZeldaGirl*** · 06-22-2004, 08:43 PM

That is a very good article. Thank you for sharing, Link2000.

Ditto McCloaker · 06-22-2004, 09:50 PM

;_;

That article is so beautiful.

Finally, SOMEONE stands up and points out how twisted and illogical these 'well-meaning' arguments are. They said it better than I ever could. Even people HERE are listening.

And you know the wonderful part? You're never going to hear ANYTHING like this said anywhere else. Ever.

AJ Middleton · 06-22-2004, 09:58 PM

Has anyone here seen it yet?

Jonathan Resop · 06-22-2004, 10:07 PM

I donno, after I read that article, I doubt I'd want to see Moore's trash. Of course, I didn't really want to see it before I read the article anyway. I really don't want to see a movie that's mainly just Moore's opinion crammed down your throat.-jay

Cornell J · 06-22-2004, 10:22 PM

Ithink that all (if not most) politicians are screwy, everyone wants you to see THEIR way, doesn't matter what issue your addressing it's like that. My opinoin on the election:
I don't like Bush, I think he's ignorant, and can't come with his own stuff.
I don't like Kerry, because he's a plain nut.
I don't care for Nader, because I don't know much about him

I think overall: We're screwed for the next 4 years

Jonathan Resop · 06-22-2004, 10:33 PM

^ Someone has seen the light.

-jay

El Barto · 06-23-2004, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ditto McCloaker, Nintendo Loyalist:
And you know the wonderful part? You're never going to hear ANYTHING like this said anywhere else. Ever.

What are you talking about? That has been and will continue to be said all over that place. He's quite unpopular, particularly among certain circles.

And I still don't think this forum is that liberal.

[ June 23, 2004, 12:23 AM: Message edited by: El Barto ]

***CaptHayfever*** · 06-23-2004, 12:57 AM

Heck, a lot of liberals don't like Moore either. Psychotic maniacs transcend party politics.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

El Barto · 06-23-2004, 01:32 AM

You'd think so.

Dark Chaos · 06-23-2004, 01:54 AM

Michael Moore is the biggest idiot the political world has ever known.

Erdawn Il Deus · 06-23-2004, 02:02 AM

^I don't cre what people preach as long as he has the facts to back it up, and the very least no concrete proof but enough evidencial hinting that the facts become blithely obvious.

I actually like the concpet of some people doing the dirty snooping to outroot some major problems with the government. Especially when it concerns Bush. Who I don't like. For more than just his empty-eyed stare.

Just as long... as the facts... are there.

***CaptHayfever*** · 06-23-2004, 10:58 AM

Well, experience has shown that often the facts aren't there as far as Moore's films are concerned.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

Ditto · 06-23-2004, 12:08 PM

Exactly. The article outlines several very serious contradictions in Michael Moore's various rants. He doesn't actually have any principles, except opposing Bush. Anything he does is stupid, criminal, or insensitive. He kvetches that Bush is too slow to react to the news he hears, but that he's too gung-ho when he says "bring them on", and too disinterested when confronted at a golf game.

If Clinton, or Eisenhower, or any liked President did any of these things, it would be signs of shock, courage, and 'calm statesmanship.'

Basically, it works like this: If Bush is too relaxed, he doesn't know what's going on. If he's too alert, he's posing. If he's eager about something, he's insensitive to the harm it will do. If he issues alerts, he's an alarmist, If something bad happens, he was too inefficient to stop it. If Bush walked on water, the complaint would be that the President was too stupid to know how to swim. Read the article, it's all there.

Does anybody remember, near the end of the Clinton Presidency, the little rumor pushed by the nutso religious right that Clinton was secretly behind several murders, including the attempt on Vince Foster? The testimonies given by a bunch of angry people that they'd been intimidated not to speak against him, for fear their families would be taken? This is as credible as that, but nobody bothered to take THAT seriously, because there was the benefit of the doubt for Clinton.

Any charge can be 'proven without concrete facts as long as it's obvious' if you eliminate benefit of the doubt beforehand. This is what I've been TALKING about.

Super Shy Guy · 06-23-2004, 12:41 PM

Al Franken > Michael Moore.

and what Hayfever said.

Ditto · 06-23-2004, 01:08 PM

Franken at least offers up facts to back himself up, even if his conclusions are still wrong. And he is genuinely witty, in an offensive way.

Both sides have their madmen (and women!). We're stuck with such luminaries as Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, and Jerry Falwell, and they're stuck with Al Franken, Michael Moore and Jesse Jackson.

We're almost like mirror images of each other, in a bizarre kinda way.

Super Shy Guy · 06-23-2004, 01:28 PM

Don't you mean a BIZARRO... kind of way?

Nick · 06-23-2004, 01:33 PM

Franken's pretty much off the list of nutbags for me, especially since he dissected and showed how much of a right-wing hack Ann Coulter is. Apparently, Coulter doesn't know how to search the Nexus right. Franken's books are actually backed up and cited. Moore just annoys the hell out of me, although I'll likely see this movie after I catch Supersize Me and Spiderman 2.

And regardless if someone's "nutty," their message shouldn't be silenced because "we don't want to hear it." That's a dangerous train of logic, as people should always question politicians.

And nobody listened to the Religious Right about Clinton because they are neither. That and Clinton was still pushing high numbers with everyone, while Bush is hovering around 45-50% compared to Kerry. Hell, numbers showed that Clinton would have beaten both Gore and Bush in 2000 if he ran.

And lets compare both incidents: Moore's film examines the post-9/11 attitude of the Bush administration, which has been one of fear, flagwaving, and using tools like fear and patriotism to roll back on civil liberties and justify invasions into other countries. This administration was called worse than the Nixon admin in terms of secrecy. Look at what's come out: torture in Iraq, detainees in guantanamo that STILL have not gotten access to lawyers, no WMDs, being called "unpatriotic" if you speak out against the administration, trade deficits, balloooning budget deficits, a larger government than under Clinton, etc etc etc.

What did Clinton have? An impeachment proceeding brought on by an overzealous Republican Congress over Clinton getting a blowjob. As Larry Flynt's bounty proved, many REPUBLICANS WHO WERE PUSHING HARD FOR CLINTON'S IMPEACHMENT DID THE SAME IF NOT WORSE. Oh yeah, NATO actions in former Yugoslavia that didn't commit a huge majority of our military and send home over 100 Americans in coffins in one month. Aside from that, we had a huge economic boom and a budget surplus.

[ June 23, 2004, 01:45 PM: Message edited by: Lurch1982 ]

ocarinagirl · 06-23-2004, 03:40 PM

^That's what I hate about this administration: if people say ANYTHING that criticizes the Bush Administration or the war in Iraq then "OMFG DEY HATES AMERIKA LOLZ!!!!11" Please.

....We need protest songs about this war. Like in the 60's for Vietnam. If only to just balance out the ear-raping Toby Keiths in the country.

And Al Franken owns you FACE. X)

ADVENTURE BUS · 06-23-2004, 05:15 PM

I've heard some Andi

I also cant believe the way some people think

A friend of mine, he's muslim, dislikes Bush
when some kid here found out, he yelled
"Shut up you stupid Tal-E-Ban idiot"
So I yelled
"No **** you, you ignorant redneck"
And I felt so good, the good feeling of when you hold your...stuff for about a good 3 hours and release that (#1) in the toilet

06-22-2004, 08:43 PM	#22
*ZeldaGirl* Venting SuperMod Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Why do YOU want to know...? Gender: Posts: 11,712 Thanks: 495 Thanked 726 Times in 490 Posts Points: 22,621.54 Bank: 312,130.01 Total Points: 334,751.55 Donate	That is a very good article. Thank you for sharing, Link2000.

06-22-2004, 09:50 PM	#23
Ditto McCloaker Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: SimCity Posts: 3,246 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 774.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 1,274.00 Donate	;_; That article is so beautiful. Finally, SOMEONE stands up and points out how twisted and illogical these 'well-meaning' arguments are. They said it better than I ever could. Even people HERE are listening. And you know the wonderful part? You're never going to hear ANYTHING like this said anywhere else. Ever.

06-22-2004, 09:58 PM	#24
AJ Middleton Banned Join Date: Dec 1969 Posts: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 2,146.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 2,646.00 Donate	Has anyone here seen it yet?

06-22-2004, 10:07 PM	#25
Jonathan Resop Banned Join Date: Dec 1969 Posts: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 34,042.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 34,542.00 Donate	I donno, after I read that article, I doubt I'd want to see Moore's trash. Of course, I didn't really want to see it before I read the article anyway. I really don't want to see a movie that's mainly just Moore's opinion crammed down your throat.-jay

06-22-2004, 10:22 PM	#26
Cornell J Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 1,074 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 11,411.67 Bank: 358.60 Total Points: 11,770.27 Donate	Ithink that all (if not most) politicians are screwy, everyone wants you to see THEIR way, doesn't matter what issue your addressing it's like that. My opinoin on the election: I don't like Bush, I think he's ignorant, and can't come with his own stuff. I don't like Kerry, because he's a plain nut. I don't care for Nader, because I don't know much about him I think overall: We're screwed for the next 4 years

06-22-2004, 10:33 PM	#27
Jonathan Resop Banned Join Date: Dec 1969 Posts: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 34,042.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 34,542.00 Donate	^ Someone has seen the light. -jay

06-23-2004, 12:57 AM	#29
*CaptHayfever* Smash Supermod Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: (n) - the place where I am Gender: Posts: 19,273 Thanks: 160 Thanked 733 Times in 474 Posts Points: 105,385.73 Bank: 923.79 Total Points: 106,309.52 Donate	Heck, a lot of liberals don't like Moore either. Psychotic maniacs transcend party politics. And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

06-23-2004, 01:32 AM	#30
El Barto Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,708 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Points: 1,484.12 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 1,984.12 Donate	You'd think so.

06-23-2004, 01:54 AM	#31
Dark Chaos Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 1,682 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 1,474.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 1,974.00 Donate	Michael Moore is the biggest idiot the political world has ever known.

06-23-2004, 02:02 AM	#32
Erdawn Il Deus Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Threading the jeweled thrones of earth under my sandalled feet Gender: Posts: 2,983 Thanks: 4 Thanked 45 Times in 39 Posts Points: 22,319.93 Bank: 742.97 Total Points: 23,062.90 Donate	^I don't cre what people preach as long as he has the facts to back it up, and the very least no concrete proof but enough evidencial hinting that the facts become blithely obvious. I actually like the concpet of some people doing the dirty snooping to outroot some major problems with the government. Especially when it concerns Bush. Who I don't like. For more than just his empty-eyed stare. Just as long... as the facts... are there.

06-23-2004, 10:58 AM	#33
*CaptHayfever* Smash Supermod Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: (n) - the place where I am Gender: Posts: 19,273 Thanks: 160 Thanked 733 Times in 474 Posts Points: 105,385.73 Bank: 923.79 Total Points: 106,309.52 Donate	Well, experience has shown that often the facts aren't there as far as Moore's films are concerned. And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

06-23-2004, 12:08 PM	#34
Ditto Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Not in SSB:M Posts: 354 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 800.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 1,300.00 Donate	Exactly. The article outlines several very serious contradictions in Michael Moore's various rants. He doesn't actually have any principles, except opposing Bush. Anything he does is stupid, criminal, or insensitive. He kvetches that Bush is too slow to react to the news he hears, but that he's too gung-ho when he says "bring them on", and too disinterested when confronted at a golf game. If Clinton, or Eisenhower, or any liked President did any of these things, it would be signs of shock, courage, and 'calm statesmanship.' Basically, it works like this: If Bush is too relaxed, he doesn't know what's going on. If he's too alert, he's posing. If he's eager about something, he's insensitive to the harm it will do. If he issues alerts, he's an alarmist, If something bad happens, he was too inefficient to stop it. If Bush walked on water, the complaint would be that the President was too stupid to know how to swim. Read the article, it's all there. Does anybody remember, near the end of the Clinton Presidency, the little rumor pushed by the nutso religious right that Clinton was secretly behind several murders, including the attempt on Vince Foster? The testimonies given by a bunch of angry people that they'd been intimidated not to speak against him, for fear their families would be taken? This is as credible as that, but nobody bothered to take THAT seriously, because there was the benefit of the doubt for Clinton. Any charge can be 'proven without concrete facts as long as it's obvious' if you eliminate benefit of the doubt beforehand. This is what I've been TALKING about.

06-23-2004, 12:41 PM	#35
Super Shy Guy Banned Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the seven seas Posts: 8,969 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 8,697.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 9,197.00 Donate	Al Franken > Michael Moore. and what Hayfever said.

06-23-2004, 01:08 PM	#36
Ditto Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Not in SSB:M Posts: 354 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 800.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 1,300.00 Donate	Franken at least offers up facts to back himself up, even if his conclusions are still wrong. And he is genuinely witty, in an offensive way. Both sides have their madmen (and women!). We're stuck with such luminaries as Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, and Jerry Falwell, and they're stuck with Al Franken, Michael Moore and Jesse Jackson. We're almost like mirror images of each other, in a bizarre kinda way.

06-23-2004, 01:28 PM	#37
Super Shy Guy Banned Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the seven seas Posts: 8,969 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 8,697.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 9,197.00 Donate	Don't you mean a BIZARRO... kind of way?

06-23-2004, 01:33 PM	#38
Nick Banned Join Date: Dec 1969 Posts: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 10,313.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 10,813.00 Donate	Franken's pretty much off the list of nutbags for me, especially since he dissected and showed how much of a right-wing hack Ann Coulter is. Apparently, Coulter doesn't know how to search the Nexus right. Franken's books are actually backed up and cited. Moore just annoys the hell out of me, although I'll likely see this movie after I catch Supersize Me and Spiderman 2. And regardless if someone's "nutty," their message shouldn't be silenced because "we don't want to hear it." That's a dangerous train of logic, as people should always question politicians. And nobody listened to the Religious Right about Clinton because they are neither. That and Clinton was still pushing high numbers with everyone, while Bush is hovering around 45-50% compared to Kerry. Hell, numbers showed that Clinton would have beaten both Gore and Bush in 2000 if he ran. And lets compare both incidents: Moore's film examines the post-9/11 attitude of the Bush administration, which has been one of fear, flagwaving, and using tools like fear and patriotism to roll back on civil liberties and justify invasions into other countries. This administration was called worse than the Nixon admin in terms of secrecy. Look at what's come out: torture in Iraq, detainees in guantanamo that STILL have not gotten access to lawyers, no WMDs, being called "unpatriotic" if you speak out against the administration, trade deficits, balloooning budget deficits, a larger government than under Clinton, etc etc etc. What did Clinton have? An impeachment proceeding brought on by an overzealous Republican Congress over Clinton getting a blowjob. As Larry Flynt's bounty proved, many REPUBLICANS WHO WERE PUSHING HARD FOR CLINTON'S IMPEACHMENT DID THE SAME IF NOT WORSE. Oh yeah, NATO actions in former Yugoslavia that didn't commit a huge majority of our military and send home over 100 Americans in coffins in one month. Aside from that, we had a huge economic boom and a budget surplus. [ June 23, 2004, 01:45 PM: Message edited by: Lurch1982 ]

06-23-2004, 03:40 PM	#39
ocarinagirl Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Ehhh? What? Where am I?! Gender: Posts: 3,010 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 7,918.83 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 8,418.83 Donate	^That's what I hate about this administration: if people say ANYTHING that criticizes the Bush Administration or the war in Iraq then "OMFG DEY HATES AMERIKA LOLZ!!!!11" Please. ....We need protest songs about this war. Like in the 60's for Vietnam. If only to just balance out the ear-raping Toby Keiths in the country. And Al Franken owns you FACE. X)

06-23-2004, 05:15 PM	#40
ADVENTURE BUS I'MA FIRIN MAH ADVENTURE BUS! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Birmingham, AL Gender: Posts: 13,123 Thanks: 937 Thanked 660 Times in 385 Posts Points: 50,678.32 Bank: 500,939.68 Total Points: 551,618.00 Donate	I've heard some Andi I also cant believe the way some people think A friend of mine, he's muslim, dislikes Bush when some kid here found out, he yelled "Shut up you stupid Tal-E-Ban idiot" So I yelled "No **** you, you ignorant redneck" And I felt so good, the good feeling of when you hold your...stuff for about a good 3 hours and release that (#1) in the toilet