Least favorite president of the United States? - Page 6

Nick · 12-05-2005, 12:07 AM

Bringing in the discussion of a sound plan that is currently being undermined (or attempted to anyway) generally involves a brief discussion on the inherantly flawed Republican plan (don't get old or sick).

Social Security was a necessary program to implement at the time, and the unemployment rate really had nothing to do with payroll expenses and more to do with the industry heads not investing after the crash.

Ace61888 · 12-05-2005, 02:34 PM

Since Social Security was created in 1935, the federal government has raised payroll taxes an average of once every three years, each time with the belief that it would solve the system's solvency issues. It might be good English to call that a 'sound' program, but only because there is a literary device known as sarcasm.

They could have proposed tax and legal changes to promote the expansion of private insurance, annuity, and pension systems, since those had performed well even during the depression. There is, of course, a huge difference between those programs and Social Security, in that the former invests the money, whereas the latter relies entirely on new entrants into the program.

Before the depression, there was no demand for Social Security, because the vast majority of elderly people were just fine, and their situation had been rapidly improving from 1910-1930.

Employment is affected by prices, just like any product or service.

Nick · 12-06-2005, 12:37 AM

Perhaps Social Security would work much better if the government would simply not touch the funds it collects off of the Social Security rates.

Social Security's initial flaw was you had a generation that didn't pay into the system. Ideally, the system should have leveled out about 20 years ago, but short sighted individuals (like yourself) screamed enough to prevent a fair pay-in plan (like the elimination of the earnings cap on social security taxes).

If by rapidly improving, you mean dying earlier, yeah. Social Security was inspired by record number of elderly living under the poverty line.

Ace61888 · 12-06-2005, 05:36 PM

Social Security would work a lot better if it functioned like an actual insurance program, and that requires investment.

Social Security's flaw is that the population hasn't grown fast enough. That's why the government has repeatedly raised payroll taxes, which simply reduces your return. As it exists today, Social Security is a ponzi scheme; someone's going to get screwed, it's just a matter of who. Lifting the payroll tax of course results in an absolutely horrible return for a large number of people, and raises the top combined tax rate to over 50 percent.

The poverty line has always been a highly suspect measure of living conditions, as the poor today are better off than the middle class of ages past. Poverty among the elderly was caused primarily by low earnings during working years, which made it difficult to accumulate savings. This problem had lessened with rising prosperity, and the massive growth of private insurance, annuities, and pensions geared towards lower income workers.

I don't think the average lifespan has ever seriously declined.

The Joker · 12-07-2005, 01:30 PM

Social Security is the seceret love child of Adolf Hitler and Uncle Sam.....

12-05-2005, 12:07 AM	#101
Nick Banned Join Date: Dec 1969 Posts: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 10,716.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 11,216.00 Donate	Bringing in the discussion of a sound plan that is currently being undermined (or attempted to anyway) generally involves a brief discussion on the inherantly flawed Republican plan (don't get old or sick). Social Security was a necessary program to implement at the time, and the unemployment rate really had nothing to do with payroll expenses and more to do with the industry heads not investing after the crash.

12-05-2005, 02:34 PM	#102
Ace61888 Newbie Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 17 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 558.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 1,058.00 Donate	Since Social Security was created in 1935, the federal government has raised payroll taxes an average of once every three years, each time with the belief that it would solve the system's solvency issues. It might be good English to call that a 'sound' program, but only because there is a literary device known as sarcasm. They could have proposed tax and legal changes to promote the expansion of private insurance, annuity, and pension systems, since those had performed well even during the depression. There is, of course, a huge difference between those programs and Social Security, in that the former invests the money, whereas the latter relies entirely on new entrants into the program. Before the depression, there was no demand for Social Security, because the vast majority of elderly people were just fine, and their situation had been rapidly improving from 1910-1930. Employment is affected by prices, just like any product or service.

12-06-2005, 12:37 AM	#103
Nick Banned Join Date: Dec 1969 Posts: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 10,716.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 11,216.00 Donate	Perhaps Social Security would work much better if the government would simply not touch the funds it collects off of the Social Security rates. Social Security's initial flaw was you had a generation that didn't pay into the system. Ideally, the system should have leveled out about 20 years ago, but short sighted individuals (like yourself) screamed enough to prevent a fair pay-in plan (like the elimination of the earnings cap on social security taxes). If by rapidly improving, you mean dying earlier, yeah. Social Security was inspired by record number of elderly living under the poverty line.

12-06-2005, 05:36 PM	#104
Ace61888 Newbie Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 17 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 558.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 1,058.00 Donate	Social Security would work a lot better if it functioned like an actual insurance program, and that requires investment. Social Security's flaw is that the population hasn't grown fast enough. That's why the government has repeatedly raised payroll taxes, which simply reduces your return. As it exists today, Social Security is a ponzi scheme; someone's going to get screwed, it's just a matter of who. Lifting the payroll tax of course results in an absolutely horrible return for a large number of people, and raises the top combined tax rate to over 50 percent. The poverty line has always been a highly suspect measure of living conditions, as the poor today are better off than the middle class of ages past. Poverty among the elderly was caused primarily by low earnings during working years, which made it difficult to accumulate savings. This problem had lessened with rising prosperity, and the massive growth of private insurance, annuities, and pensions geared towards lower income workers. I don't think the average lifespan has ever seriously declined.

12-07-2005, 01:30 PM	#105
The Joker You see, my father was a drunk and fiend..... Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Arkham Ayslum for the Criminally Insane Gender: Posts: 10,125 Thanks: 2,368 Thanked 273 Times in 195 Posts Points: 554.04 Bank: 2,082.42 Total Points: 2,636.46 Donate	Social Security is the seceret love child of Adolf Hitler and Uncle Sam.....