Leaked memo details US, UK war talks - VGF

**Deku Trii** · 03-31-2006, 02:42 PM

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/conte...6/s1605157.htm

More proof of what we already know. Discuss.

**Platinum** · 03-31-2006, 02:46 PM

umm... check the link... I can't get it to work.

BrandonTragedy · 03-31-2006, 02:48 PM

works for me.

**Platinum** · 03-31-2006, 02:58 PM

It works sorry, umm... I really don't know what to say. I thought that we were going to anyway

Lord_Zack · 04-02-2006, 12:28 PM

The U.N. is stupid anyway. I applaud Bush and Blair.

Irkenwarrior12 · 04-02-2006, 01:33 PM

BUSH?

Legion · 04-02-2006, 01:45 PM

Do you think the UN is stupid as a concept? Or stupid because they won't bend to accomodate every little crusade the US wants to embark upon internationally? (Nicaragua, anyone?)

Blair is a conniving little toadie, and the only reason he remain in office is through the work of Gordon Brown helping the economy to recover after the Tories got through with it. Bush has no redeeming features economically, or politically, and it's good to see the polls beginning to reflect that.

I won't deny that it's good to see Saddam gone, but the way in which it was done, the reasons we were given for war, and the continuing war crimes and blunders and general corruption in Iraq are not excused by this. What's even more disgusting by comparison was the US's reaction to the massacre in Andijan. Apparantly the US doesn't mind it when regimes turn anti-air weapons on unarmed civilians, as long as they're on their side.

Irkenwarrior12 · 04-02-2006, 01:50 PM

He's right y'know

***ZeldaGirl*** · 04-02-2006, 02:13 PM

[quote=Legion]

I won't deny that it's good to see Saddam gone, but the way in which it was done, the reasons we were given for war, and the continuing war crimes and blunders and general corruption in Iraq are not excused by this. QUOTE]

Yes, exactly. Saddam = bad, but really. This thing has gone too far. It's a pity that is just too dangerous to pull out now. We've really gotten into a big mess here.

TM Punk · 04-02-2006, 03:20 PM

I can't say I'm surprised about that, but it is quite interesting.

Lurch1982 · 04-02-2006, 09:05 PM

Yes, lets applaud Bush and Blair for creating a power vacuum in the Middle East. Congrats on plunging a stable nation who's primary purpose was to keep Iran in check into anarchy at best and civil war at worst. Congrats on lying about reasons for war, and then scratching them out when they were debunked constantly. I applaud their effort to continue to destroy American relations with the Middle East and the world as a whole. Yes, I applaud their noble efforts to root out the terrorists where they live, except that the 9/11 hyjackers were from Saudi Arabia (15), UAE (2), Lebenon (1), and Egypt (1), so that really doesn't apply. I also applaud inventing some notion that Iraq was sponsoring al Qaeda, giving them support and weapons, and were really the puppetmaster pulling the strings behind the attacks. I also applaud Bush and Blair for doing their part in sending 3000+ of their people to an early and unneeded death, while in turn sending many more of the Iraqis to their deaths. I applaud that we are kindly ignoring the notion of a just legal system, a police force that isn't the thug-arm of ethnic/religious/political groups, haven't established any form of stable government that won't collapse the day we leave, and I dearly applaud the fact that we are operating a "do as we say not as we do" notion (under the US logic, the Middle East can launch another pre-emptive strike on Israel). Yes, lets have a good old cheer for the worst administration in modern history.

Lord_Zack · 04-06-2006, 02:38 PM

I ask you, how many people has Saddam Hussein killed? How many? There is no way you can deny that Saddam Hussein needed to go. If you do I question you're sanity. Who knows how many people we saved, even if our soldiers had to die. We cannot allow murderous rulers like Saddam Hussein to remain in power.

Furthermore, the UN is an illegitamate organization that has stood idily by, and remains to do so, as the enemies of civilization continue to harm innocent people.

Koga · 04-06-2006, 03:47 PM

Yet they allowed him to remain in power for over a decade after he commited genocide against the Kurds (I'm not sure when it was, but I believe it was in the late 80s). The problem I had with the attack on Iraq was 'why now?'. There was no reason whatsoever to attack Iraq in 2003. No (in)direct threat, no Iraqi attack on a neighbouring country,like in the first Gulf War. That was actually the perfect time to go after Hussein, but for some reason they didn't pull through then.

I really dislike the world police attitude the US has these days. If a tyrant who killed a lot of people at the head is reason enough to attack that country, then there's a long way to go.

I think more innocent people died because of the war (both on the US (and Western European countries) side and the Iraqi side) then would've if there hadn't been an attack.

Lurch1982 · 04-06-2006, 06:32 PM

We didn't go to war nor were we led to war on Saddam Hussein's crimes against humanity. We were led to war on the issue of Weapons of Mass Destruction, ties to terrorism, and the imminent danger of Saddam launching a nuclear strike.

You have no grasp on the UN, and the only thing illegitamite thing here are your factually cracked "opinions."

Using your logic, someone should invade the US over killing people in various engagements. How many people would have been saved if someone took out Bush? OMG WEAK LOGIC PWND FTW.

Furthermore, how many more WILL die because of the instability Bush has created in the region? There is more evidence that invading Iraq was a priority since the first inauguration, and its even more disturbing that they though they could just enter in and the people would greet them with hugs, beer, and kisses instead of death, destruction, and IEDs. Simply put, we've managed to fcuk up the entire region for the next few decades as well as eliminate the strongest buffer in the region that singlehandedly prevented Iran from steamrolling its way to Oman and Yeman. Congrats on the forward thinking neo-cons.

Ike · 04-06-2006, 07:05 PM

All this BS that the Bush administration is pulling off is almost making me ashamed of being American. How is it that a former alcohol addict who can't even speak proper english becomes president of the most powerful nation in the world? It's almost as if he's trying to drive the US into the ground.

Legion · 04-07-2006, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord_Zack

We cannot allow murderous rulers like Saddam Hussein to remain in power.

And yet your country supports murderous thugs like the Uzbek government. This is my problem. The US cannot claim the moral high ground until it stops sending money to governments that contravene the Geneva Convention. And there are a hell of a lot of them.

....

And the US is one of them. Damn.

How is the UN an illegitimate organisation exactly? Because it won't follow the US blindly into every little crusade you want to pull? Because they might have a problem with the US effing over just about every stable, democratic but socialist regime in Latin America?

I agree that the UN needs reform. First thing we can do is tear up the security council veto. That little stupid rule has held the UN back from countless engagement where it could have otherwise made a difference.

Lord_Zack · 04-08-2006, 04:19 PM

I have no idea who the heck the Uzbeks are. Nor do I support every decison Bush or the rest of the US government has made. I do support his discision to go to war against Saddam, which was partially made because of Saddam Hussein's actions aganist the Iraqi people. I personally for the most part, despise the US Government. I respect George Bush, because he's a Christian and generally isn't afraid to stand up for his beliefs. Of course he isn't perfect. Neither are other politicans and people in general.

Lurch1982 · 04-08-2006, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by some_dumbass

I have no idea who the heck the Uzbeks are.

Which doesn't shock me at all.

Quote:

I do support his discision to go to war against Saddam, which was partially made because of Saddam Hussein's actions aganist the Iraqi people.

No, it wasn't. At all. Unless you're counting over a year after the fact when they reinvented their reasons after imminent threat/WMDs/seeking WMDs were proved to be false.

Quote:

I respect George Bush, because he's a Christian and generally isn't afraid to stand up for his beliefs. Of course he isn't perfect. Neither are other politicans and people in general.

That's the dumbest reason to support a political leader. OMG HE SI MEY RALIGUN HE MUSTS BE TEH GOODZ!@ Yeah, everything isn't drawn down religious lines. He's religious, or as religious as any ex alcoholic and cokehead can be. Thing is, he makes piss poor decisions for 6 years, runs the country into the dirt on multiple levels, and manages to take the US sentiment across the world, which was at a fairly high point, and run it down the the lowest level its been in history. Yet, we've been giving this moron a free ride for this long while other politicians do much less and get thrown out on their ass. Yeah. That makes sense. Way to double-standard. You are officially my hero. I wish more people would think like you, so it would make me less hesitant to move to another country.

***CaptHayfever*** · 04-08-2006, 08:30 PM

Quote:

I have no idea who the heck the Uzbeks are.

Go look at a map of Asia. Find Uzbekistan. The people inside of it are Uzbeks.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

**Prince Toad** · 04-09-2006, 12:10 PM

Then move there. Stop polluting my nation. Quick, before you can vote.

03-31-2006, 02:42 PM	#1
Deku Trii PP&R Mod Current Events Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: More important than where is when.... Gender: Posts: 6,254 Thanks: 97 Thanked 244 Times in 161 Posts Points: 1,318.96 Bank: 1,566,553.83 Total Points: 1,567,872.79 Donate	Leaked memo details US, UK war talks http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/conte...6/s1605157.htm More proof of what we already know. Discuss.

03-31-2006, 02:46 PM	#2
Platinum Arcade Mod Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Wv Gender: Posts: 1,369 Thanks: 48 Thanked 21 Times in 21 Posts Points: 707.24 Bank: 23,885.95 Total Points: 24,593.19 Donate	umm... check the link... I can't get it to work.

03-31-2006, 02:48 PM	#3
BrandonTragedy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Dirty Looks Gender: Posts: 8,040 Thanks: 212 Thanked 145 Times in 125 Posts Points: 10,988.16 Bank: 95,238.29 Total Points: 106,226.45 Donate	works for me.

03-31-2006, 02:58 PM	#4
Platinum Arcade Mod Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Wv Gender: Posts: 1,369 Thanks: 48 Thanked 21 Times in 21 Posts Points: 707.24 Bank: 23,885.95 Total Points: 24,593.19 Donate	It works sorry, umm... I really don't know what to say. I thought that we were going to anyway

04-02-2006, 12:28 PM	#5
Lord_Zack Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Gender: Posts: 752 Thanks: 22 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts Points: 11,609.55 Bank: 2,539.69 Total Points: 14,149.24 Donate	The U.N. is stupid anyway. I applaud Bush and Blair.

04-02-2006, 01:33 PM	#6
Irkenwarrior12 Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Your mother's face. SNAP! Gender: Posts: 1,136 Thanks: 26 Thanked 23 Times in 18 Posts Points: 12,254.07 Bank: 2,423.97 Total Points: 14,678.04 Donate	BUSH?

04-02-2006, 01:45 PM	#7
Legion Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Greater Mancester, UK Gender: Posts: 1,860 Thanks: 10 Thanked 16 Times in 11 Posts Points: 7,661.29 Bank: 6,647.77 Total Points: 14,309.06 Donate	Do you think the UN is stupid as a concept? Or stupid because they won't bend to accomodate every little crusade the US wants to embark upon internationally? (Nicaragua, anyone?) Blair is a conniving little toadie, and the only reason he remain in office is through the work of Gordon Brown helping the economy to recover after the Tories got through with it. Bush has no redeeming features economically, or politically, and it's good to see the polls beginning to reflect that. I won't deny that it's good to see Saddam gone, but the way in which it was done, the reasons we were given for war, and the continuing war crimes and blunders and general corruption in Iraq are not excused by this. What's even more disgusting by comparison was the US's reaction to the massacre in Andijan. Apparantly the US doesn't mind it when regimes turn anti-air weapons on unarmed civilians, as long as they're on their side.

04-02-2006, 01:50 PM	#8
Irkenwarrior12 Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Your mother's face. SNAP! Gender: Posts: 1,136 Thanks: 26 Thanked 23 Times in 18 Posts Points: 12,254.07 Bank: 2,423.97 Total Points: 14,678.04 Donate	He's right y'know

04-02-2006, 02:13 PM	#9
*ZeldaGirl* Venting SuperMod Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Why do YOU want to know...? Gender: Posts: 11,354 Thanks: 482 Thanked 671 Times in 462 Posts Points: 8,207.36 Bank: 261,176.43 Total Points: 269,383.79 Donate	[quote=Legion] I won't deny that it's good to see Saddam gone, but the way in which it was done, the reasons we were given for war, and the continuing war crimes and blunders and general corruption in Iraq are not excused by this. QUOTE] Yes, exactly. Saddam = bad, but really. This thing has gone too far. It's a pity that is just too dangerous to pull out now. We've really gotten into a big mess here.

04-02-2006, 03:20 PM	#10
TM Punk Newbie Join Date: Apr 2006 Gender: Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 640.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 1,140.00 Donate	I can't say I'm surprised about that, but it is quite interesting.

04-02-2006, 09:05 PM	#11
Lurch1982 Senior Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Katrinaland, USA Gender: Posts: 9,092 Thanks: 117 Thanked 175 Times in 116 Posts Points: 23,560.73 Bank: 113,982.44 Total Points: 137,543.17 Donate	Yes, lets applaud Bush and Blair for creating a power vacuum in the Middle East. Congrats on plunging a stable nation who's primary purpose was to keep Iran in check into anarchy at best and civil war at worst. Congrats on lying about reasons for war, and then scratching them out when they were debunked constantly. I applaud their effort to continue to destroy American relations with the Middle East and the world as a whole. Yes, I applaud their noble efforts to root out the terrorists where they live, except that the 9/11 hyjackers were from Saudi Arabia (15), UAE (2), Lebenon (1), and Egypt (1), so that really doesn't apply. I also applaud inventing some notion that Iraq was sponsoring al Qaeda, giving them support and weapons, and were really the puppetmaster pulling the strings behind the attacks. I also applaud Bush and Blair for doing their part in sending 3000+ of their people to an early and unneeded death, while in turn sending many more of the Iraqis to their deaths. I applaud that we are kindly ignoring the notion of a just legal system, a police force that isn't the thug-arm of ethnic/religious/political groups, haven't established any form of stable government that won't collapse the day we leave, and I dearly applaud the fact that we are operating a "do as we say not as we do" notion (under the US logic, the Middle East can launch another pre-emptive strike on Israel). Yes, lets have a good old cheer for the worst administration in modern history.

04-06-2006, 02:38 PM	#12
Lord_Zack Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Gender: Posts: 752 Thanks: 22 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts Points: 11,609.55 Bank: 2,539.69 Total Points: 14,149.24 Donate	I ask you, how many people has Saddam Hussein killed? How many? There is no way you can deny that Saddam Hussein needed to go. If you do I question you're sanity. Who knows how many people we saved, even if our soldiers had to die. We cannot allow murderous rulers like Saddam Hussein to remain in power. Furthermore, the UN is an illegitamate organization that has stood idily by, and remains to do so, as the enemies of civilization continue to harm innocent people.

04-06-2006, 03:47 PM	#13
Koga Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: The Netherlands Gender: Posts: 17,094 Thanks: 105 Thanked 177 Times in 119 Posts Points: 103,439.41 Bank: 17,752.41 Total Points: 121,191.82 Donate	Yet they allowed him to remain in power for over a decade after he commited genocide against the Kurds (I'm not sure when it was, but I believe it was in the late 80s). The problem I had with the attack on Iraq was 'why now?'. There was no reason whatsoever to attack Iraq in 2003. No (in)direct threat, no Iraqi attack on a neighbouring country,like in the first Gulf War. That was actually the perfect time to go after Hussein, but for some reason they didn't pull through then. I really dislike the world police attitude the US has these days. If a tyrant who killed a lot of people at the head is reason enough to attack that country, then there's a long way to go. I think more innocent people died because of the war (both on the US (and Western European countries) side and the Iraqi side) then would've if there hadn't been an attack.

04-06-2006, 06:32 PM	#14
Lurch1982 Senior Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Katrinaland, USA Gender: Posts: 9,092 Thanks: 117 Thanked 175 Times in 116 Posts Points: 23,560.73 Bank: 113,982.44 Total Points: 137,543.17 Donate	We didn't go to war nor were we led to war on Saddam Hussein's crimes against humanity. We were led to war on the issue of Weapons of Mass Destruction, ties to terrorism, and the imminent danger of Saddam launching a nuclear strike. You have no grasp on the UN, and the only thing illegitamite thing here are your factually cracked "opinions." Using your logic, someone should invade the US over killing people in various engagements. How many people would have been saved if someone took out Bush? OMG WEAK LOGIC PWND FTW. Furthermore, how many more WILL die because of the instability Bush has created in the region? There is more evidence that invading Iraq was a priority since the first inauguration, and its even more disturbing that they though they could just enter in and the people would greet them with hugs, beer, and kisses instead of death, destruction, and IEDs. Simply put, we've managed to fcuk up the entire region for the next few decades as well as eliminate the strongest buffer in the region that singlehandedly prevented Iran from steamrolling its way to Oman and Yeman. Congrats on the forward thinking neo-cons.

04-06-2006, 07:05 PM	#15
Ike Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I don't know. Where do I live? Gender: Posts: 5,610 Thanks: 40 Thanked 152 Times in 108 Posts Points: 2,506.15 Bank: 156,921.39 Total Points: 159,427.54 Donate	All this BS that the Bush administration is pulling off is almost making me ashamed of being American. How is it that a former alcohol addict who can't even speak proper english becomes president of the most powerful nation in the world? It's almost as if he's trying to drive the US into the ground.

04-08-2006, 04:19 PM	#17
Lord_Zack Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Gender: Posts: 752 Thanks: 22 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts Points: 11,609.55 Bank: 2,539.69 Total Points: 14,149.24 Donate	I have no idea who the heck the Uzbeks are. Nor do I support every decison Bush or the rest of the US government has made. I do support his discision to go to war against Saddam, which was partially made because of Saddam Hussein's actions aganist the Iraqi people. I personally for the most part, despise the US Government. I respect George Bush, because he's a Christian and generally isn't afraid to stand up for his beliefs. Of course he isn't perfect. Neither are other politicans and people in general.

04-09-2006, 12:10 PM	#20
Prince Toad PC Mod Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Rookery Gender: Posts: 11,394 Thanks: 42 Thanked 56 Times in 47 Posts Points: 42,226.88 Bank: 15,935.33 Total Points: 58,162.21 Donate	Then move there. Stop polluting my nation. Quick, before you can vote.