People are Inherently Stupid? - VGF

***Ace Mercury*** · 08-24-2006, 11:25 PM

I'm sure you've suspected this by now: there are stupid people. But, what exactly is it about people that makes them stupid? I'm not talking about disabling stupidity; most everyone can do their jobs with a high degree of skill, raise children who know the difference between right and wrong, and operate heavy machinery. I'm talking about as a whole, as a society.

I believe a core concept that humans really don't grasp is probability and risk. (Examples: 1, 2) This is why a disproportionately large amount of money is spent of countering terrorism, why people buy lottery tickets, why casinos are raking in money, and generally why people are suckers.

Listen and consider the following talk (if you want):
http://www.boingboing.net/2006/06/17...of_bad_pr.html (How to Do Precisely the Right Thing at All Possible Times, Daniel Gilbert)

Basically, the perfect action to perform at any given time is a 'simple' calculation: probability multiplied by reward. Given all alternatives, take the highest expected payout weighted by the highest probability (taking account things like tolerable worst-case scenarios, finite resources, etc). However, people are historically bad at working out either the probability or the reward value. For example, people tend to think the more graphic or imaginable an event it, the more probable it is; that it's more probable to die in a high-flying plane than in a prosaic automobile or getting hit by a coconut. Other aspects are taken into account when thinking about a probability, of which make little or no impact on the actual values. Similarly, people aren't good at determining their reward/suffering in the future, either.

As a result of our inability to judge, things like this happen:
http://www.cato.org/pubs/regulation/...n3/v27n3-5.pdf (A False Sense of Insecurity, John Mueller)

Politicians, who may or may not be attuned to what public services actually require funding, throw money at the "terrorist plot" in an effort to garner votes from the uninformed electorate. People are terrified for no compelling reason. Businesses lose millions because of irrational fears, while other essentials such as schools and healthcare take a hit and more lives are lost than terrorists could ever blow up.

Of course, there are more devices in the stupidity toolbox: mob mentality, groupthink, self-attribution bias, good old-fashioned apathy, etc. What do you think? What is the root of stupidity? Is humanity doomed to stupidity? Is there a way to unstupify ourselves?

***CaptHayfever*** · 08-24-2006, 11:44 PM

Yep, pretty much. I think the biggest causes of stupidity are laziness, gullibility, and isolation. The latter is forgivable, and the middle one is theoretically correctable, but the former....

The real waste of money in government is politicians' salaries. There's an easy solution to that, but I think we can all see the catch there.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

**Dr. Horrible** · 08-25-2006, 09:48 AM

Some of the problem with the war on terror is that politicians seem to treat the "payoff" of not having another successful terrorist attack as infinite, so the actual risk becomes irrelevant. Thinking of loss of life that would occur in a terrorist attack versus the money you spend to prevent it seems coldhearted, but only if you misunderstand the nature of money and the fact that it can be applied to help many.

GRENTLEMEN · 08-25-2006, 12:09 PM

What causes stupidity? People thinking they're intelligent. If folks would just be aware of the fact that they don't know everything, and would think before they do something.. They wouldn't come off as bumbling imbeciles.

Daos · 08-25-2006, 02:32 PM

Is humanity doomed to stupidity? Hell yes. It's my belief that about 80% of the world falls into this category.

Mikhail Gorbachev · 08-25-2006, 03:33 PM

Politicians are the real terrorists. Who causes more hysteria? The "terrorists" who make a few unnoteworthy isolated attacks which would amount to little in a realistic perspective, or the politicians who magnify such attacks and cause mass hysteria?
People are definitely inherently stupid.

Bomby · 08-25-2006, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daos

Is humanity doomed to stupidity? Hell yes. It's my belief that about 80% of the world falls into this category.

Actually, 85% are dumb deaf and blind.
10% are intelligent, but evil.
5% know what the 10% are doing, and must try to inform the 85%.

Link2000 · 08-26-2006, 01:13 PM

Wow, talk about pretentious. Chroneme, you'd be singing a different tune if it affected you directly.

I do agree that we have gone a bit overboard combatting terrorism (Patriot Act anyone?) but patronizing and calling people stupid hurts your side 100 times more than it could ever help.

Back to Chroneme, are you suggesting, with your ""s that terrorists are justified in the attacking of civilians?

***Ace Mercury*** · 08-26-2006, 02:25 PM

I would think that the greatest loss so far would be the loss of liberty and rights; so-called "terrorists" who refuse unconstitutional searches and the like are being labelled such to justify politician's own brand of terrorism.

Link2000 · 08-26-2006, 04:57 PM

Yes Ace, because asking you to take off your shoes at an airport is the same as flying a plane into a building.

Darth_Flava · 08-26-2006, 10:25 PM

I do agree that a lot of people in the world do make stupid decisions and that politics does in fact exploit tragic events like 9-11 to sway the public to their side. What I don't agree with is the fact that terrorism is not a threat. While acts like blowing up tunnels and bombings in the street do not necessarily happen everyday, we have had these acts happen to us twice. The WTC was attacked twice the first attack happening sometime in the 90s. One of our naval ships took heavy damage out at American shore from a terrorist attack (I don't recall what the name of the ship was). Along with other events. Even though 9-11 was just one attack, the reason it garners attention was due to the fact that it was very successful. 3000 people gone is nothing to look away from. That is 3000 people that will never be seen again. It opened our eyes a little bit to the fact that America is not a completely impenetrable fortress. The reason people aren't acting with too much rationality isn't because their stupid. It's because the idea of the US being vulnerable is an idea that not many Americans were ready for. When people don't understand something they tend to fear it and make decisions with a lack of good judgement.

Mikhail Gorbachev · 08-27-2006, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Link2000

Wow, talk about pretentious. Chroneme, you'd be singing a different tune if it affected you directly.

I do agree that we have gone a bit overboard combatting terrorism (Patriot Act anyone?) but patronizing and calling people stupid hurts your side 100 times more than it could ever help.

Back to Chroneme, are you suggesting, with your ""s that terrorists are justified in the attacking of civilians?

I'm not saying that. I'm saying that politicians do more to instill terror than the terrorists themselves. Their actions are not justified. If politicians gave people a realistic perspective, the terrorists would give up because their attempts to instill fear had failed.

08-24-2006, 11:25 PM	#1
*Ace Mercury* Marshmallow Knight ☆ Supermod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Southern Ontario Gender: Posts: 18,950 Thanks: 360 Thanked 1,505 Times in 784 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 98,465.30 Bank: 12,446,091.72 Total Points: 12,544,557.02 Donate	People are Inherently Stupid? I'm sure you've suspected this by now: there are stupid people. But, what exactly is it about people that makes them stupid? I'm not talking about disabling stupidity; most everyone can do their jobs with a high degree of skill, raise children who know the difference between right and wrong, and operate heavy machinery. I'm talking about as a whole, as a society. I believe a core concept that humans really don't grasp is probability and risk. (Examples: 1, 2) This is why a disproportionately large amount of money is spent of countering terrorism, why people buy lottery tickets, why casinos are raking in money, and generally why people are suckers. Listen and consider the following talk (if you want): http://www.boingboing.net/2006/06/17...of_bad_pr.html (How to Do Precisely the Right Thing at All Possible Times, Daniel Gilbert) Basically, the perfect action to perform at any given time is a 'simple' calculation: probability multiplied by reward. Given all alternatives, take the highest expected payout weighted by the highest probability (taking account things like tolerable worst-case scenarios, finite resources, etc). However, people are historically bad at working out either the probability or the reward value. For example, people tend to think the more graphic or imaginable an event it, the more probable it is; that it's more probable to die in a high-flying plane than in a prosaic automobile or getting hit by a coconut. Other aspects are taken into account when thinking about a probability, of which make little or no impact on the actual values. Similarly, people aren't good at determining their reward/suffering in the future, either. As a result of our inability to judge, things like this happen: http://www.cato.org/pubs/regulation/...n3/v27n3-5.pdf (A False Sense of Insecurity, John Mueller) Politicians, who may or may not be attuned to what public services actually require funding, throw money at the "terrorist plot" in an effort to garner votes from the uninformed electorate. People are terrified for no compelling reason. Businesses lose millions because of irrational fears, while other essentials such as schools and healthcare take a hit and more lives are lost than terrorists could ever blow up. Of course, there are more devices in the stupidity toolbox: mob mentality, groupthink, self-attribution bias, good old-fashioned apathy, etc. What do you think? What is the root of stupidity? Is humanity doomed to stupidity? Is there a way to unstupify ourselves?

08-25-2006, 02:32 PM	#5
Daos Banned Forum Mod Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Earth Gender: Posts: 4,945 Thanks: 57 Thanked 90 Times in 60 Posts Points: 6,863.83 Bank: 96,846.46 Total Points: 103,710.29 Donate	Is humanity doomed to stupidity? Hell yes. It's my belief that about 80% of the world falls into this category. __________________ I am terror, I am Daos.

08-26-2006, 01:13 PM	#8
Link2000 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Ontario, Canada Gender: Posts: 8,052 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Points: 15,841.15 Bank: 804.22 Total Points: 16,645.37 Donate	Wow, talk about pretentious. Chroneme, you'd be singing a different tune if it affected you directly. I do agree that we have gone a bit overboard combatting terrorism (Patriot Act anyone?) but patronizing and calling people stupid hurts your side 100 times more than it could ever help. Back to Chroneme, are you suggesting, with your ""s that terrorists are justified in the attacking of civilians? Last edited by Link2000; 08-26-2006 at 04:55 PM.

08-26-2006, 02:25 PM	#9
*Ace Mercury* Marshmallow Knight ☆ Supermod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Southern Ontario Gender: Posts: 18,950 Thanks: 360 Thanked 1,505 Times in 784 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 98,465.30 Bank: 12,446,091.72 Total Points: 12,544,557.02 Donate	Ooh, controvertial. I would think that the greatest loss so far would be the loss of liberty and rights; so-called "terrorists" who refuse unconstitutional searches and the like are being labelled such to justify politician's own brand of terrorism.

08-24-2006, 11:44 PM	#2
*CaptHayfever* Smash Supermod Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: (n) - the place where I am Gender: Posts: 19,294 Thanks: 161 Thanked 740 Times in 479 Posts Points: 105,828.46 Bank: 942.27 Total Points: 106,770.73 Donate	Yep, pretty much. I think the biggest causes of stupidity are laziness, gullibility, and isolation. The latter is forgivable, and the middle one is theoretically correctable, but the former.... The real waste of money in government is politicians' salaries. There's an easy solution to that, but I think we can all see the catch there. And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

08-25-2006, 09:48 AM	#3
Dr. Horrible PP&R Mod Current Events Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: More important than where is when.... Gender: Posts: 6,342 Thanks: 105 Thanked 295 Times in 178 Posts Points: 2,570.97 Bank: 1,903,253.12 Total Points: 1,905,824.09 Donate	Some of the problem with the war on terror is that politicians seem to treat the "payoff" of not having another successful terrorist attack as infinite, so the actual risk becomes irrelevant. Thinking of loss of life that would occur in a terrorist attack versus the money you spend to prevent it seems coldhearted, but only if you misunderstand the nature of money and the fact that it can be applied to help many.

08-25-2006, 12:09 PM	#4
GRENTLEMEN Retro Nintendo Supermod Art & Literature Mod Metroid Mod Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 15,910 Thanks: 464 Thanked 1,179 Times in 634 Posts Points: 7,651.54 Bank: 1,866,967.49 Total Points: 1,874,619.02 Donate	What causes stupidity? People thinking they're intelligent. If folks would just be aware of the fact that they don't know everything, and would think before they do something.. They wouldn't come off as bumbling imbeciles.

08-25-2006, 03:33 PM	#6
Mikhail Gorbachev Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Gender: Posts: 9,490 Thanks: 25 Thanked 60 Times in 45 Posts Points: 152.14 Bank: 23,930.81 Total Points: 24,082.95 Donate	Politicians are the real terrorists. Who causes more hysteria? The "terrorists" who make a few unnoteworthy isolated attacks which would amount to little in a realistic perspective, or the politicians who magnify such attacks and cause mass hysteria? People are definitely inherently stupid.

08-26-2006, 04:57 PM	#10
Link2000 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Ontario, Canada Gender: Posts: 8,052 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Points: 15,841.15 Bank: 804.22 Total Points: 16,645.37 Donate	Yes Ace, because asking you to take off your shoes at an airport is the same as flying a plane into a building.

08-26-2006, 10:25 PM	#11
Darth_Flava Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: North Carolina Posts: 95 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts Points: 3,899.92 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 4,399.92 Donate	I do agree that a lot of people in the world do make stupid decisions and that politics does in fact exploit tragic events like 9-11 to sway the public to their side. What I don't agree with is the fact that terrorism is not a threat. While acts like blowing up tunnels and bombings in the street do not necessarily happen everyday, we have had these acts happen to us twice. The WTC was attacked twice the first attack happening sometime in the 90s. One of our naval ships took heavy damage out at American shore from a terrorist attack (I don't recall what the name of the ship was). Along with other events. Even though 9-11 was just one attack, the reason it garners attention was due to the fact that it was very successful. 3000 people gone is nothing to look away from. That is 3000 people that will never be seen again. It opened our eyes a little bit to the fact that America is not a completely impenetrable fortress. The reason people aren't acting with too much rationality isn't because their stupid. It's because the idea of the US being vulnerable is an idea that not many Americans were ready for. When people don't understand something they tend to fear it and make decisions with a lack of good judgement.