9/11 - VGF

Josh123 · 09-17-2006, 12:40 AM

What are you thoughts on this day??????

**Crazyswordsman** · 09-17-2006, 12:42 AM

I was one of the few liberals in my high school. I pretty much spent the day in tears and had to leave school early because I was worried about my father and his friends. The conservatives at my school were rejoicing at the opportunity to go to war. -CSM

Josh123 · 09-17-2006, 12:45 AM

Its bad enough that happened but they make us remeber that dark day by making movies after it.

Legion · 09-17-2006, 11:00 AM

I dislike the trend of 'commemerating' massive tragedies. Remberence, yes. But not this morbid desire to tread over the same ground again, and again, and again, and turn those involved into puppets for whatever political ideology people want to use their deaths to justify.

***Ace Mercury*** · 09-17-2006, 11:31 AM

I was at school at the time. The teacher had the projector going, tuned into CNN because, well, he heard about planes flying into buildings. The national anthem started up (the Canadian one, as it did every morning), and we all stood up. The TV was muted, so all we saw was one building surrounded by smoke. In the middle of the anthem, a silent plume of flame and smoke erupted beneath the second building; the second plane had hit the other building.

I never really felt the impact of the WTC disaster; I thought of it as an isolated incident, something, while tragic, was not a great big deal compared to some of the crises local and abroad. Though I sort of understood the feelings of those involved, I was surprised that most of the country also felt obligated to do something about it, do something for the country and its victims. It's a shame that that feeling has either subsided, or been redirected by charismatic, greedy people to their own ends. There are too who claim to be patriotic (or doers, or activists, or anything), but fail to objectively look at their own actions and their actual cause, instead believing what others say the cause is.

I believe there's an air of revenge in this. Had a great big rock fall from nowhere onto the WTC towers, there would be an outpouring of support to victims, but not the seething anger towards rocks in general. It's not just that the towers fell, it's because someone willed it to happen that really irks people. While there's a target (conveniently, a target politicians can change), there's naive people, who's heart is in the right place, but never bother to check up on the facts.

Link2000 · 09-17-2006, 12:53 PM

Ace, are you suggesting that going after al-Qaeda was the incorrect thing to do?

***CaptHayfever*** · 09-17-2006, 01:36 PM

Ace, did you have a late start or what? I was already in the middle of a history test when it happened, and we're in the same time zone. [/digression]

Going with Legion here. I saw an ad a couple weeks ago for the Twin Towers pop-up commemorative coin and immediately became nauseous.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

***Ace Mercury*** · 09-17-2006, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Link2000

Ace, are you suggesting that going after al-Qaeda was the incorrect thing to do?

I'm not saying that. Someone did do it, and they said they're going to do it again, so it's reasonable to go beat them up or something. Remember Afghanistan? I guess it's reasonable to invade that, because if we didn't, the Taliban would just continue housing them, and al-Qaeda would run about free. In fact, there are still forces in Afghanistan, dying to keep it free of them.

Now, when people say that we should hate France for some reason, or that Iraq has something to do with the WTC towers falling down, that's when I kind of get annoyed. You can hate France (say, because you hate Champagne), and you can think Iraq was a great place to invade (say, because they have oil), but to champion these causes with buildings falling down is ridiculous.

Cap'n, it was around 9:00, IIRC; I forget exactly when classes started, but it was near the beginning of the first period. [/digression]

Link2000 · 09-17-2006, 05:42 PM

Yes, Ace I am certainly well aware of what we have in Afghanistan. In fact, I have a cousin who is currently serving there as a navigator with the Canadians. With many people in Canada (The NDP et all) currently questioning the entire purpose of why we're in Afghanistan, I figured that it would be useful for discussion here.

Given that my grandmother is an Acadian (French settlers in New Brunswick/Nova Scotia, many would later be forced to move to Louisiana) I certainly don't hate French people. So-called "hatred" of France was limited in the US to backwards rednecks. It's best if we place ourselves above that.

Iraq is a bumbling failure, and as an initial supporter I'm more than willing to admit that. Although I will contend that I never believe Saddam was involved (I did beleive in the WMDs however).

Either way, I was mostly concerned with Afghanistan in that questioning anyway, as it seems to dominate debate up here nowadays.

***Ace Mercury*** · 09-17-2006, 07:04 PM

Just to be clear, I'm not saying either of us are blindly following anything (e.g. hating the French), but it's just that some people do because of a tenuous link put forward by people with a ulterior agenda.

Bomby · 09-17-2006, 10:55 PM

Historically, attempting to take over Afghanistan is the dumbest thing one can do. When Alexander the Great was attempting to take over the world, he stopped in Afghanistan, turned around and went home. Same with the USSR, who had hundreds of thousands of troops who could not suppress the nation. The past few weeks of America's invasion of Afghanistan have been the most violent since November of 2001.

I'm not saying that the terrorists don't deserve to be punished, but the way we went about doing so will end up being worthless, because we'll lose more soldiers in the long run and things in Afghanistan will most likely remain the same when we finally leave.

**Prince Toad** · 09-18-2006, 02:42 PM

Alexander's troops didn't want to fight anymore, because they'd been doing that for years and years, and they wanted to go enjoy their spoils in Persia. As for the USSR, that was partially because we funded the Taliban revolutionaries. I don't think there's anything special about Afghanistan that makes it especially hard to invade. Historically, invading Russia is the dumbest thing one can do. Duh.

Lurch1982 · 09-18-2006, 03:48 PM

Afghanastan's the focal point of the opium trade, so there's constantly outside interests fighting for control of it.

The more compelling thing is it took like a week for you people to realize it was the anniversery of 9/11. So much for never forgetting...

**Perrin Aybara** · 09-18-2006, 03:53 PM

The anniversery of what?

-jay

**Prince Toad** · 09-18-2006, 06:14 PM

We all realized, Lurch. We just didn't have much new to say about it. (Well, that's my excuse, anyway.)

**Dr. Horrible** · 09-18-2006, 06:34 PM

Yeah, even when Bartman did make the topic a week late he still didn't really have anything new to say.

YouTube - Olbermann - 9/11 Special Comment

That's the only really interesting new thing I've heard someone say now that it's been 5 years.

Darth_Flava · 09-20-2006, 08:36 PM

I was in history class back in my freshmen year when it happened. Even though I wasn't there to see those towers fall or to see all death that surrounded the WTC afterwards. It was enough to see it on tv to leave scar in memory. I love my country despite all the mistakes that liberals, politicians, and lobbyist have caused. So it was only natural that I felt we should go after who caused it. Do I believe that the Iraqi war was a complete success, no. Do I believe that Saddam was someone who should've been taken down, yes.

**Prince Toad** · 09-20-2006, 08:49 PM

^To hell with you. If not for liberals and all the "mistakes" we "caused," you wouldn't have a country to love. It's disgusting and shameful that you would even bring that up in a topic like this. You sicken me.

Koga · 09-21-2006, 08:57 AM

The fact that the war against Iraq is mentioned in a topic about 9/11 is in itself ridiculous. I thought everyone knew by now that Saddam Hussain and Iraq were not related to Al Qaeda or the 9/11 attacks at all.

**Crazyswordsman** · 09-21-2006, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bartman101

Its bad enough that happened but they make us remeber that dark day by making movies after it.

I'm firmly against making money off the lives of 3000 people. People have also accused the movie of being a mouthpiece for the Republican party (which doesn't surprise me, as they've abused this tragedy fort their own gain/money anyway). That's one of the most disrespectful things you can do to the victims, and the firefighters and cops in particular, as they did what they did voluntarily. -CSM

09-17-2006, 12:40 AM	#1
Josh123 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: I'm Bartman, ya fool Gender: Posts: 5,711 Thanks: 373 Thanked 121 Times in 97 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 8,961.88 Bank: 45,781.46 Total Points: 54,743.35 Donate	9/11 What are you thoughts on this day??????

09-17-2006, 11:31 AM	#5
*Ace Mercury* Marshmallow Knight ☆ Supermod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Southern Ontario Gender: Posts: 18,943 Thanks: 360 Thanked 1,493 Times in 783 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 97,977.84 Bank: 12,202,050.71 Total Points: 12,300,028.55 Donate	I call it a lazy patriotism. I was at school at the time. The teacher had the projector going, tuned into CNN because, well, he heard about planes flying into buildings. The national anthem started up (the Canadian one, as it did every morning), and we all stood up. The TV was muted, so all we saw was one building surrounded by smoke. In the middle of the anthem, a silent plume of flame and smoke erupted beneath the second building; the second plane had hit the other building. I never really felt the impact of the WTC disaster; I thought of it as an isolated incident, something, while tragic, was not a great big deal compared to some of the crises local and abroad. Though I sort of understood the feelings of those involved, I was surprised that most of the country also felt obligated to do something about it, do something for the country and its victims. It's a shame that that feeling has either subsided, or been redirected by charismatic, greedy people to their own ends. There are too who claim to be patriotic (or doers, or activists, or anything), but fail to objectively look at their own actions and their actual cause, instead believing what others say the cause is. I believe there's an air of revenge in this. Had a great big rock fall from nowhere onto the WTC towers, there would be an outpouring of support to victims, but not the seething anger towards rocks in general. It's not just that the towers fell, it's because someone willed it to happen that really irks people. While there's a target (conveniently, a target politicians can change), there's naive people, who's heart is in the right place, but never bother to check up on the facts. Last edited by Ace Mercury; 09-17-2006 at 11:36 AM.

09-17-2006, 12:42 AM	#2
Crazyswordsman RPG Mod Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Booyaville (yeah!) Gender: Posts: 7,979 Thanks: 537 Thanked 373 Times in 256 Posts Points: 126,413.27 Bank: 26,171.80 Total Points: 152,585.07 Donate	I was one of the few liberals in my high school. I pretty much spent the day in tears and had to leave school early because I was worried about my father and his friends. The conservatives at my school were rejoicing at the opportunity to go to war. -CSM

09-17-2006, 12:45 AM	#3
Josh123 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: I'm Bartman, ya fool Gender: Posts: 5,711 Thanks: 373 Thanked 121 Times in 97 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 8,961.88 Bank: 45,781.46 Total Points: 54,743.35 Donate	Its bad enough that happened but they make us remeber that dark day by making movies after it.

09-17-2006, 11:00 AM	#4
Legion Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Greater Mancester, UK Gender: Posts: 1,860 Thanks: 10 Thanked 16 Times in 11 Posts Points: 7,801.29 Bank: 6,647.77 Total Points: 14,449.06 Donate	I dislike the trend of 'commemerating' massive tragedies. Remberence, yes. But not this morbid desire to tread over the same ground again, and again, and again, and turn those involved into puppets for whatever political ideology people want to use their deaths to justify.

09-17-2006, 12:53 PM	#6
Link2000 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Ontario, Canada Gender: Posts: 8,052 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Points: 15,800.15 Bank: 804.22 Total Points: 16,604.37 Donate	Ace, are you suggesting that going after al-Qaeda was the incorrect thing to do?

09-17-2006, 01:36 PM	#7
*CaptHayfever* Smash Supermod Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: (n) - the place where I am Gender: Posts: 19,273 Thanks: 160 Thanked 733 Times in 474 Posts Points: 105,385.73 Bank: 923.79 Total Points: 106,309.52 Donate	Ace, did you have a late start or what? I was already in the middle of a history test when it happened, and we're in the same time zone. [/digression] Going with Legion here. I saw an ad a couple weeks ago for the Twin Towers pop-up commemorative coin and immediately became nauseous. And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

09-17-2006, 05:42 PM	#9
Link2000 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Ontario, Canada Gender: Posts: 8,052 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Points: 15,800.15 Bank: 804.22 Total Points: 16,604.37 Donate	Yes, Ace I am certainly well aware of what we have in Afghanistan. In fact, I have a cousin who is currently serving there as a navigator with the Canadians. With many people in Canada (The NDP et all) currently questioning the entire purpose of why we're in Afghanistan, I figured that it would be useful for discussion here. Given that my grandmother is an Acadian (French settlers in New Brunswick/Nova Scotia, many would later be forced to move to Louisiana) I certainly don't hate French people. So-called "hatred" of France was limited in the US to backwards rednecks. It's best if we place ourselves above that. Iraq is a bumbling failure, and as an initial supporter I'm more than willing to admit that. Although I will contend that I never believe Saddam was involved (I did beleive in the WMDs however). Either way, I was mostly concerned with Afghanistan in that questioning anyway, as it seems to dominate debate up here nowadays.

09-17-2006, 07:04 PM	#10
*Ace Mercury* Marshmallow Knight ☆ Supermod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Southern Ontario Gender: Posts: 18,943 Thanks: 360 Thanked 1,493 Times in 783 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 97,977.84 Bank: 12,202,050.71 Total Points: 12,300,028.55 Donate	Just to be clear, I'm not saying either of us are blindly following anything (e.g. hating the French), but it's just that some people do because of a tenuous link put forward by people with a ulterior agenda.

09-17-2006, 10:55 PM	#11
Bomby Needle in the Hay Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: The People's Republic of Madison, WI Gender: Posts: 14,679 Thanks: 202 Thanked 443 Times in 311 Posts Blog Entries: 4 Points: 3,569.64 Bank: 1,932,597.03 Total Points: 1,936,166.67 Donate	Historically, attempting to take over Afghanistan is the dumbest thing one can do. When Alexander the Great was attempting to take over the world, he stopped in Afghanistan, turned around and went home. Same with the USSR, who had hundreds of thousands of troops who could not suppress the nation. The past few weeks of America's invasion of Afghanistan have been the most violent since November of 2001. I'm not saying that the terrorists don't deserve to be punished, but the way we went about doing so will end up being worthless, because we'll lose more soldiers in the long run and things in Afghanistan will most likely remain the same when we finally leave.

09-18-2006, 02:42 PM	#12
Prince Toad PC Mod Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Rookery Gender: Posts: 11,402 Thanks: 43 Thanked 56 Times in 47 Posts Points: 43,222.57 Bank: 18,304.68 Total Points: 61,527.25 Donate	Alexander's troops didn't want to fight anymore, because they'd been doing that for years and years, and they wanted to go enjoy their spoils in Persia. As for the USSR, that was partially because we funded the Taliban revolutionaries. I don't think there's anything special about Afghanistan that makes it especially hard to invade. Historically, invading Russia is the dumbest thing one can do. Duh.

09-18-2006, 03:48 PM	#13
Lurch1982 Senior Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Katrinaland, USA Gender: Posts: 9,113 Thanks: 119 Thanked 185 Times in 120 Posts Points: 25,155.94 Bank: 136,219.57 Total Points: 161,375.51 Donate	Afghanastan's the focal point of the opium trade, so there's constantly outside interests fighting for control of it. The more compelling thing is it took like a week for you people to realize it was the anniversery of 9/11. So much for never forgetting...

09-18-2006, 03:53 PM	#14
Perrin Aybara LLLUUUCCCCCCAAA!!! Ban HotD Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Alone....so terribly alone... Some... where... out... there... dies Gender: Posts: 11,766 Thanks: 169 Thanked 325 Times in 174 Posts Points: 61,077.65 Bank: 137,056.02 Total Points: 198,133.67 Donate	The anniversery of what? -jay

09-18-2006, 06:14 PM	#15
Prince Toad PC Mod Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Rookery Gender: Posts: 11,402 Thanks: 43 Thanked 56 Times in 47 Posts Points: 43,222.57 Bank: 18,304.68 Total Points: 61,527.25 Donate	We all realized, Lurch. We just didn't have much new to say about it. (Well, that's my excuse, anyway.)

09-18-2006, 06:34 PM	#16
Dr. Horrible PP&R Mod Current Events Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: More important than where is when.... Gender: Posts: 6,336 Thanks: 104 Thanked 293 Times in 177 Posts Points: 2,294.51 Bank: 1,865,934.44 Total Points: 1,868,228.95 Donate	Yeah, even when Bartman did make the topic a week late he still didn't really have anything new to say. YouTube - Olbermann - 9/11 Special Comment That's the only really interesting new thing I've heard someone say now that it's been 5 years.

09-20-2006, 08:36 PM	#17
Darth_Flava Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: North Carolina Posts: 95 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts Points: 3,889.92 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 4,389.92 Donate	I was in history class back in my freshmen year when it happened. Even though I wasn't there to see those towers fall or to see all death that surrounded the WTC afterwards. It was enough to see it on tv to leave scar in memory. I love my country despite all the mistakes that liberals, politicians, and lobbyist have caused. So it was only natural that I felt we should go after who caused it. Do I believe that the Iraqi war was a complete success, no. Do I believe that Saddam was someone who should've been taken down, yes.

09-20-2006, 08:49 PM	#18
Prince Toad PC Mod Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Rookery Gender: Posts: 11,402 Thanks: 43 Thanked 56 Times in 47 Posts Points: 43,222.57 Bank: 18,304.68 Total Points: 61,527.25 Donate	^To hell with you. If not for liberals and all the "mistakes" we "caused," you wouldn't have a country to love. It's disgusting and shameful that you would even bring that up in a topic like this. You sicken me.

09-21-2006, 08:57 AM	#19
Koga Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: The Netherlands Gender: Posts: 17,093 Thanks: 104 Thanked 176 Times in 118 Posts Points: 104,306.41 Bank: 17,752.41 Total Points: 122,058.82 Donate	The fact that the war against Iraq is mentioned in a topic about 9/11 is in itself ridiculous. I thought everyone knew by now that Saddam Hussain and Iraq were not related to Al Qaeda or the 9/11 attacks at all.