I got a question - Page 3 - VGF

Darth_Flava · 08-30-2007, 08:48 AM

I never said nor do I think that it is any easier to cure Homosexuality as you put it. I also do understand as I have most of my life that not everybody believes in the same God I do. Thats pretty much a given. I myself didn't start out as a Christian or lived in a Christian family. I was an atheist who eventually through his life found God to be much more believable and real then what science has told about why humans are here. He also helped me understand myself better than I could on my own.

Wyborn the reason God gave us what you call the potential for deviation was for us to find our own way to Him if at all. A lot of people don't understand is that God kept giving and giving and getting nothing in return from His people. Humanity pretty much turned their back on God numerous times. God eventually grew tired of it and pretty much said your on your own.

That doesn't mean he doesn't still help people but He isn't gonna hold people's hands anymore like He use to. The whole point of the second coming and the apocalypse is that people hopefully would figure it out.

Does it seem unfair of course it does. Is that an excuse, abosolutely not. Let's say hypothetically that a person grows up knowing what Christianity as well as the other religions are all about. From Chrisitianity's viewpoint, if he decides to not believe and live his life not following the Bible, guess what more likely than not when he dies, he probably isn't go to fair too well in getting into heaven.

Now that doesn't seem fair does it. Well it isn't. A lot of people don't like to think about the consequences thats why they choose not to believe. But the problem is not believing in God isn't gonna make Him go away and isn't gonna lighten the consequences. He still exist and one way or the other whether you believe or not you will face Him one day.

**Prince Toad** · 08-30-2007, 12:27 PM

See, we're never going to get anywhere arguing about whether you should believe in Christianity. Christians are going to say you should, non-Christians that you shouldn't. A better debate is whether or not there should be legislation combining church and state, with stuff like gay marriage and abortion. Not that those debates get anywhere either, but it should theoretically be possible to win that one.

Koga · 08-30-2007, 03:41 PM

Quote:

But the problem is not believing in God isn't gonna make Him go away

On the contrary, I think that if no one believed in God, there would be no God, since he is only in the mind of the believers.

t3hDarkness · 08-30-2007, 03:52 PM

I heard a theory that if anyone did indeed prove god's existence, she would immediately disappear in a puff of logic.

Kil'jaeden · 08-30-2007, 04:13 PM

What if God is a hippy that lives in the 7th dimension? I think so.

t3hDarkness · 08-30-2007, 04:20 PM

Once the seventh dimension is stable for longer than a millisecond and humans gain the sensory organs to view said dimension, we can know for sure.

Princess Zelda of Hyrule · 08-30-2007, 05:44 PM

Without the potential for deviation, good deeds would hardly be good. They'd just be. They'd just exist, and that would be it.

**Wyborn** · 08-30-2007, 07:45 PM

If the reason for God banishing the vast, vast majority of us into an eternity of torture is so we can celebrate nice people, He's a hack artist.

Princess Zelda of Hyrule · 08-30-2007, 07:52 PM

I never said He was banishing people to Hell.

Bomby · 08-31-2007, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Carlin

Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man -- living in the sky -- who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!
---But he loves you!

The conversation began to remind me of this quote.

***CaptHayfever*** · 08-31-2007, 01:48 AM

There are comedians who are capable of criticizing religion AND being funny at the same time. Carlin, for all his talent, isn't one of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by t3hDarkness

I heard a theory that if anyone did indeed prove god's existence, she would immediately disappear in a puff of logic.

If by "heard a theory," you mean "read a novel that makes a joke to that end relying on a faulty premise because the author wasn't trying to make a serious argument," then yes.

And remmeber, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

GRENTLEMEN · 08-31-2007, 02:43 AM

People just really want to believe in a purpose. The problem lies in how they go about it.

By all means, believe in what you like, but don't go treating other people like they're defective if they don't feel the same. Then, you're about the same thing as a playground bully. Life isn't something you can win, it doesn't matter who's better.

Princess Zelda of Hyrule · 08-31-2007, 10:39 AM

I do not advocate religious bullying. But if a person believes she has found the cure for everything, is it not her moral duty to share it?

Sarai and Samiel · 08-31-2007, 11:00 AM

It is her moral duty to *offer* to share it. Trying to force it on others, however, or insisting on sharing it regardless of willingness to recieve, is back to more religious bullying, and is one of two major failing points of the vast bulk of Christian religion members. The other one, naturally, is believing that just because they percieve something as wrong for themselves, it must be the most horrible thing in the world to do, regardless of whether or not it actually negatively affects anyone outside of those entering in whatever act or state with full knowledge of the pluses and minuses (particularly conspicuous in the case of homosexuals or bisexuals). Fortunately, most who have one of these two failings have the other as well, which cuts down the total numbers. Unfortunately, these numbers are FREAKIN' HUGE.

Bomby · 08-31-2007, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptHayfever

There are comedians who are capable of criticizing religion AND being funny at the same time. Carlin, for all his talent, isn't one of them.

Damn, Capt, of all VGF members, I never thought I'd have to use this smiley on you, but for the above quotation, I must. So take it relatively lightly:

Princess Zelda of Hyrule · 08-31-2007, 11:28 AM

If a Christian really believes people go to hell for having homosexual sex, she'd be negligent not to at least gently let them know how she feels.

Of course, you're right that harping on the "sin" would be useless. Telling people not to do something "sinful" awakens their rebellious sides, making them want to "sin" all the more.

But refusing to even mention it. Sitting there thinking powerful thoughts about a friend, refusing to bring those thoughts out in the open. That's unnatural. That's dishonest. That's an unhealthy friendship.

**Prince Toad** · 08-31-2007, 12:12 PM

Yes, it is certainly an unhealthy friendship not to tell a person-- a friend, even-- that their lifestyle will cause their soul to burn in eternal hellfire. (Are you even trying to make sense?)

Also, George Carlin is awesome and that quote is funny. Just because it disagrees with you doesn't mean it's not, although of course I shouldn't expect objectivity out of you.

Princess Zelda of Hyrule · 08-31-2007, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Yes, it is certainly an unhealthy friendship not to tell a person-- a friend, even-- that their lifestyle will cause their soul to burn in eternal hellfire.

...Well, if you really believe your friend is on his way to eternal hellfire, what kind of friend would you be to let him fall? You don't have to scream fire and brimstone at him. But you can say, "You know, I'm concerned about your behavior. I respect your ability to make your own choices and have your own opinions, but at least listen to my concern." Respect for diversity is important, but if you can look through a conservative Christian's eyes, it would seem keeping friends (and even strangers) safe is a higher priority...

***CaptHayfever*** · 08-31-2007, 12:24 PM

No, I am being objective, because his delivery changes whenever he talks about religion. He forgets his timing, he repeats the same complaints over & over, and he gets genuinely mean & bitter about it. The quote is funnier to read than it is to hear because in your head you insert the Funny Carlin that we're all used to.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

**Prince Toad** · 08-31-2007, 02:06 PM

Come on, have you heard the bit about his worshiping the sun? Awesome.

I guess I can see where you're coming from, but you couldn't possibly expect your friend to be happy about it. Anyway, I don't think anyone actually talks like that.

08-31-2007, 11:00 AM	#54
Sarai and Samiel Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Aisle 12, between the kumquats and the radicchio. Gender: Posts: 2,264 Thanks: 163 Thanked 124 Times in 86 Posts Points: 2,279.80 Bank: 55,005.27 Total Points: 57,285.07 Donate	Actually, no. It is her moral duty to offer to share it. Trying to force it on others, however, or insisting on sharing it regardless of willingness to recieve, is back to more religious bullying, and is one of two major failing points of the vast bulk of Christian religion members. The other one, naturally, is believing that just because they percieve something as wrong for themselves, it must be the most horrible thing in the world to do, regardless of whether or not it actually negatively affects anyone outside of those entering in whatever act or state with full knowledge of the pluses and minuses (particularly conspicuous in the case of homosexuals or bisexuals). Fortunately, most who have one of these two failings have the other as well, which cuts down the total numbers. Unfortunately, these numbers are FREAKIN' HUGE.

08-30-2007, 08:48 AM	#41
Darth_Flava Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: North Carolina Posts: 95 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts Points: 3,899.92 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 4,399.92 Donate	I never said nor do I think that it is any easier to cure Homosexuality as you put it. I also do understand as I have most of my life that not everybody believes in the same God I do. Thats pretty much a given. I myself didn't start out as a Christian or lived in a Christian family. I was an atheist who eventually through his life found God to be much more believable and real then what science has told about why humans are here. He also helped me understand myself better than I could on my own. Wyborn the reason God gave us what you call the potential for deviation was for us to find our own way to Him if at all. A lot of people don't understand is that God kept giving and giving and getting nothing in return from His people. Humanity pretty much turned their back on God numerous times. God eventually grew tired of it and pretty much said your on your own. That doesn't mean he doesn't still help people but He isn't gonna hold people's hands anymore like He use to. The whole point of the second coming and the apocalypse is that people hopefully would figure it out. Does it seem unfair of course it does. Is that an excuse, abosolutely not. Let's say hypothetically that a person grows up knowing what Christianity as well as the other religions are all about. From Chrisitianity's viewpoint, if he decides to not believe and live his life not following the Bible, guess what more likely than not when he dies, he probably isn't go to fair too well in getting into heaven. Now that doesn't seem fair does it. Well it isn't. A lot of people don't like to think about the consequences thats why they choose not to believe. But the problem is not believing in God isn't gonna make Him go away and isn't gonna lighten the consequences. He still exist and one way or the other whether you believe or not you will face Him one day.

08-30-2007, 12:27 PM	#42
Prince Toad PC Mod Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Rookery Gender: Posts: 11,404 Thanks: 43 Thanked 56 Times in 47 Posts Points: 43,365.19 Bank: 18,304.68 Total Points: 61,669.87 Donate	See, we're never going to get anywhere arguing about whether you should believe in Christianity. Christians are going to say you should, non-Christians that you shouldn't. A better debate is whether or not there should be legislation combining church and state, with stuff like gay marriage and abortion. Not that those debates get anywhere either, but it should theoretically be possible to win that one.

08-30-2007, 03:52 PM	#44
t3hDarkness Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: I've been lost here before Gender: Posts: 4,153 Thanks: 43 Thanked 109 Times in 87 Posts Points: 12,280.81 Bank: 84,629.27 Total Points: 96,910.07 Donate	I heard a theory that if anyone did indeed prove god's existence, she would immediately disappear in a puff of logic.

08-30-2007, 04:13 PM	#45
Kil'jaeden Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: in your mind Gender: Posts: 1,418 Thanks: 18 Thanked 37 Times in 28 Posts Points: 8,999.65 Bank: 820.30 Total Points: 9,819.95 Donate	What if God is a hippy that lives in the 7th dimension? I think so.

08-30-2007, 04:20 PM	#46
t3hDarkness Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: I've been lost here before Gender: Posts: 4,153 Thanks: 43 Thanked 109 Times in 87 Posts Points: 12,280.81 Bank: 84,629.27 Total Points: 96,910.07 Donate	Once the seventh dimension is stable for longer than a millisecond and humans gain the sensory organs to view said dimension, we can know for sure.

08-30-2007, 05:44 PM	#47
Princess Zelda of Hyrule Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Hyrule Castle Gender: Posts: 6,128 Thanks: 35 Thanked 14 Times in 10 Posts Points: 6,547.36 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 7,047.36 Donate	Without the potential for deviation, good deeds would hardly be good. They'd just be. They'd just exist, and that would be it.

08-30-2007, 07:45 PM	#48
Wyborn Zelda Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: All over the place Gender: Posts: 12,325 Thanks: 86 Thanked 438 Times in 269 Posts Points: 15,036.55 Bank: 72,951.74 Total Points: 87,988.29 Donate	If the reason for God banishing the vast, vast majority of us into an eternity of torture is so we can celebrate nice people, He's a hack artist.

08-30-2007, 07:52 PM	#49
Princess Zelda of Hyrule Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Hyrule Castle Gender: Posts: 6,128 Thanks: 35 Thanked 14 Times in 10 Posts Points: 6,547.36 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 7,047.36 Donate	I never said He was banishing people to Hell.

08-31-2007, 02:43 AM	#52
GRENTLEMEN Retro Nintendo Supermod Art & Literature Mod Metroid Mod Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 15,910 Thanks: 464 Thanked 1,179 Times in 634 Posts Points: 7,651.54 Bank: 1,866,967.49 Total Points: 1,874,619.02 Donate	People just really want to believe in a purpose. The problem lies in how they go about it. By all means, believe in what you like, but don't go treating other people like they're defective if they don't feel the same. Then, you're about the same thing as a playground bully. Life isn't something you can win, it doesn't matter who's better.

08-31-2007, 10:39 AM	#53
Princess Zelda of Hyrule Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Hyrule Castle Gender: Posts: 6,128 Thanks: 35 Thanked 14 Times in 10 Posts Points: 6,547.36 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 7,047.36 Donate	I do not advocate religious bullying. But if a person believes she has found the cure for everything, is it not her moral duty to share it?

08-31-2007, 11:28 AM	#56
Princess Zelda of Hyrule Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Hyrule Castle Gender: Posts: 6,128 Thanks: 35 Thanked 14 Times in 10 Posts Points: 6,547.36 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 7,047.36 Donate	If a Christian really believes people go to hell for having homosexual sex, she'd be negligent not to at least gently let them know how she feels. Of course, you're right that harping on the "sin" would be useless. Telling people not to do something "sinful" awakens their rebellious sides, making them want to "sin" all the more. But refusing to even mention it. Sitting there thinking powerful thoughts about a friend, refusing to bring those thoughts out in the open. That's unnatural. That's dishonest. That's an unhealthy friendship.

08-31-2007, 12:12 PM	#57
Prince Toad PC Mod Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Rookery Gender: Posts: 11,404 Thanks: 43 Thanked 56 Times in 47 Posts Points: 43,365.19 Bank: 18,304.68 Total Points: 61,669.87 Donate	Yes, it is certainly an unhealthy friendship not to tell a person-- a friend, even-- that their lifestyle will cause their soul to burn in eternal hellfire. (Are you even trying to make sense?) Also, George Carlin is awesome and that quote is funny. Just because it disagrees with you doesn't mean it's not, although of course I shouldn't expect objectivity out of you.

08-31-2007, 12:24 PM	#59
*CaptHayfever* Smash Supermod Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: (n) - the place where I am Gender: Posts: 19,294 Thanks: 161 Thanked 740 Times in 479 Posts Points: 105,828.46 Bank: 942.27 Total Points: 106,770.73 Donate	No, I am being objective, because his delivery changes whenever he talks about religion. He forgets his timing, he repeats the same complaints over & over, and he gets genuinely mean & bitter about it. The quote is funnier to read than it is to hear because in your head you insert the Funny Carlin that we're all used to. And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

08-31-2007, 02:06 PM	#60
Prince Toad PC Mod Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Rookery Gender: Posts: 11,404 Thanks: 43 Thanked 56 Times in 47 Posts Points: 43,365.19 Bank: 18,304.68 Total Points: 61,669.87 Donate	Come on, have you heard the bit about his worshiping the sun? Awesome. I guess I can see where you're coming from, but you couldn't possibly expect your friend to be happy about it. Anyway, I don't think anyone actually talks like that.