Freedom of Speech? - Page 2

***ZeldaGirl*** · 09-22-2007, 06:55 PM

^Heh, I said that in the first place - of course he was an idiot, but he did have the right to challenge Kerry with those questions. And his questions were not taser-worthy.

Darth_Flava · 09-22-2007, 08:35 PM

I gotta say that was pretty fun when he said we impeached Clinton for a blow job. I think he was being a little rude and was stretching out his question. As far as being tasered and all that, he didn't do anything wrong, that was just complete bullying by a bunch of campus pigs (not a big fan of police).

Darunia00 · 10-05-2007, 11:59 PM

This would fall under the so-called "fighting words" section of the First Amendment, which would mean that there would have to be a reasonable threat of imminent lawless action following or as a result of his words. There wasn't. Next step - civil suit!

Also: campus police are about as useful as a hole in the roof. Everything else that has to be said about them has been.

Kil'jaeden · 10-06-2007, 03:49 PM

Well, I guess there's no choice but to set up a big gallows on campus.

betasoldier · 12-07-2007, 03:46 AM

I know this is said done and buried, but I was gone when it happened and would like to comment on it. Now, the video has been removed by now, so I don't know for certain what happened. But from what I understand his first amendment rights WERE violated when the police tried to remove him. However, when he chose to resist, how was he resisting exactly?, from the way your saying he resisted it sounds like physical resistance, in which the police had ALL rights to taser him. Even if the police are in the wrong at the beginning, don't resist them physically or they DO have the right to do things like that. Admittedly, they should have pepper sprayed him first unless he was swinging at them, escalation of force and all, but still.

Also, just adding this little tidbit because somebody commented on it, the police did not violate his Miranda Rights in this case by not reading him his rights or what he was being arrested for. This is simply because they must be told to him BEFORE he gets interviewed by the police, talked to, whatever you want to call it.Yes, that IS the way the law works, and no they can't go to trial without being interviewed, I'm a military policemen, and while there are differences between military and civil law, we must know plenty of civil law because we still have to apprehend civilians. In most instances like this they aren't told what they did wrong until the person is handcuffed and on the way to the police car, because its obvious what they did wrong and they're usually too busy apprehending the individual(s). Now, in that way I don't mean the first part, I mean when he started resisting escort out of the building. From what I understand happened the police were in the wrong to escort him out of the building, but as soon as the kid started resisting HE was LEGALLY in the wrong.

However, it being on campus, the campus police MAY have been in the right to escort him out of the building for unruly behavior. I don't know, one, I didn't see the video, two, that all depends on the campus's own rules. You must remember where you are and what is classified as what by the place that you are in.

I still say from the sound of things, I agree with you that he had his rights violated. But if he was physically resisting, he deserved to be tasered. Yes, I know I'm digging up old news, but eh, I'm bored, sick, and can't get to sleep. And mostly I wanted to make sure everyone understood about the Miranda Rights. It's how should I say, STRONGLY ADVISED that you tell them what they are being arrested for because it usually means they'll be easier to handle, thats one of the things you tell them so you can more easily apprehend them. But as soon as they start resisting things change. Then you apprehend them first, then you can tell them what they did wrong, or read them their rights, so long as those things are said to them before they're questioned.

DELICIOUS POISON · 12-07-2007, 08:22 AM

It's not that I ever saw it as a violation of his rights as guaranteed by the US government, or what's left of them after you set foot onto a college campus. It's that the treatment he received at the hands of those sworn to serve and protect was unnecessary and completely uncalled for. I don't think the world is made of happy people, and I don't pretend they could or should all get along. They shouldn't, either.

If it all occurred just because he used the words "blow job", I wouldn't be surprised. He should have thought of the children.

**Booyakasha** · 12-07-2007, 09:15 AM

Never heard about this. He was being insubordinate after being told to leave? Struggling with police? Tasering's standard operating procedure in that situation. I know it looks like hell, but the police didn't actually do anything wrong as far as I can see.

**Wyborn** · 12-07-2007, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Booyakasha

Never heard about this. He was being insubordinate after being told to leave? Struggling with police? Tasering's standard operating procedure in that situation. I know it looks like hell, but the police didn't actually do anything wrong as far as I can see.

And that's true - the guy ended up making a formal public apology and serving community service.

The officers involved did not get into any sort of trouble.

***CaptHayfever*** · 12-07-2007, 03:44 PM

His "struggling" was 90% verbal, 10% just squirming a little. Plus he stopped squirming before they zapped him.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

Acradius · 12-20-2007, 12:42 PM

Guys like this one are the very reason we have the first amendment at all. It's not only our right to criticize our government, it's our duty as American citizens to do so. It was included because when the Constitution and the Bill of Rights were written, people were downright furious at actions like this. The only difference now is between campus cops and redcoat British.

12-07-2007, 09:15 AM	#27
Booyakasha Mod of War Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Wisconsinland Gender: Posts: 6,917 Thanks: 78 Thanked 381 Times in 240 Posts Points: 12,447.11 Bank: 28,330.28 Total Points: 40,777.39 Donate	Never heard about this. He was being insubordinate after being told to leave? Struggling with police? Tasering's standard operating procedure in that situation. I know it looks like hell, but the police didn't actually do anything wrong as far as I can see. __________________ Boo--the only dude bad enough to rescue the president

09-22-2007, 06:55 PM	#21
*ZeldaGirl* Venting SuperMod Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Why do YOU want to know...? Gender: Posts: 12,069 Thanks: 514 Thanked 853 Times in 582 Posts Points: 29,089.71 Bank: 454,714.49 Total Points: 483,804.19 Donate	^Heh, I said that in the first place - of course he was an idiot, but he did have the right to challenge Kerry with those questions. And his questions were not taser-worthy.

09-22-2007, 08:35 PM	#22
Darth_Flava Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: North Carolina Posts: 98 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts Points: 4,118.15 Bank: 530.60 Total Points: 4,648.75 Donate	I gotta say that was pretty fun when he said we impeached Clinton for a blow job. I think he was being a little rude and was stretching out his question. As far as being tasered and all that, he didn't do anything wrong, that was just complete bullying by a bunch of campus pigs (not a big fan of police).

10-05-2007, 11:59 PM	#23
Darunia00 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Boston Gender: Posts: 4,309 Thanks: 1 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts Points: 2,207.60 Bank: 603.52 Total Points: 2,811.12 Donate	This would fall under the so-called "fighting words" section of the First Amendment, which would mean that there would have to be a reasonable threat of imminent lawless action following or as a result of his words. There wasn't. Next step - civil suit! Also: campus police are about as useful as a hole in the roof. Everything else that has to be said about them has been.

10-06-2007, 03:49 PM	#24
Kil'jaeden Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: in your mind Gender: Posts: 1,473 Thanks: 19 Thanked 40 Times in 31 Posts Points: 10,531.78 Bank: 1,148.62 Total Points: 11,680.40 Donate	Well, I guess there's no choice but to set up a big gallows on campus.

12-07-2007, 03:46 AM	#25
betasoldier Junior Member Join Date: May 2007 Gender: Posts: 106 Thanks: 10 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Points: 2,941.66 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 2,941.66 Donate	I know this is said done and buried, but I was gone when it happened and would like to comment on it. Now, the video has been removed by now, so I don't know for certain what happened. But from what I understand his first amendment rights WERE violated when the police tried to remove him. However, when he chose to resist, how was he resisting exactly?, from the way your saying he resisted it sounds like physical resistance, in which the police had ALL rights to taser him. Even if the police are in the wrong at the beginning, don't resist them physically or they DO have the right to do things like that. Admittedly, they should have pepper sprayed him first unless he was swinging at them, escalation of force and all, but still. Also, just adding this little tidbit because somebody commented on it, the police did not violate his Miranda Rights in this case by not reading him his rights or what he was being arrested for. This is simply because they must be told to him BEFORE he gets interviewed by the police, talked to, whatever you want to call it.Yes, that IS the way the law works, and no they can't go to trial without being interviewed, I'm a military policemen, and while there are differences between military and civil law, we must know plenty of civil law because we still have to apprehend civilians. In most instances like this they aren't told what they did wrong until the person is handcuffed and on the way to the police car, because its obvious what they did wrong and they're usually too busy apprehending the individual(s). Now, in that way I don't mean the first part, I mean when he started resisting escort out of the building. From what I understand happened the police were in the wrong to escort him out of the building, but as soon as the kid started resisting HE was LEGALLY in the wrong. However, it being on campus, the campus police MAY have been in the right to escort him out of the building for unruly behavior. I don't know, one, I didn't see the video, two, that all depends on the campus's own rules. You must remember where you are and what is classified as what by the place that you are in. I still say from the sound of things, I agree with you that he had his rights violated. But if he was physically resisting, he deserved to be tasered. Yes, I know I'm digging up old news, but eh, I'm bored, sick, and can't get to sleep. And mostly I wanted to make sure everyone understood about the Miranda Rights. It's how should I say, STRONGLY ADVISED that you tell them what they are being arrested for because it usually means they'll be easier to handle, thats one of the things you tell them so you can more easily apprehend them. But as soon as they start resisting things change. Then you apprehend them first, then you can tell them what they did wrong, or read them their rights, so long as those things are said to them before they're questioned.

12-07-2007, 08:22 AM	#26
DELICIOUS POISON Retro Nintendo Supermod Art & Literature Mod Metroid Mod Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 16,306 Thanks: 525 Thanked 1,436 Times in 721 Posts Points: 8,904.62 Bank: 2,667,479.76 Total Points: 2,676,384.38 Donate	It's not that I ever saw it as a violation of his rights as guaranteed by the US government, or what's left of them after you set foot onto a college campus. It's that the treatment he received at the hands of those sworn to serve and protect was unnecessary and completely uncalled for. I don't think the world is made of happy people, and I don't pretend they could or should all get along. They shouldn't, either. If it all occurred just because he used the words "blow job", I wouldn't be surprised. He should have thought of the children.

12-07-2007, 03:44 PM	#29
*CaptHayfever* Smash Supermod Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: (n) - the place where I am Gender: Posts: 19,594 Thanks: 188 Thanked 852 Times in 538 Posts Points: 112,625.21 Bank: 1,345.79 Total Points: 113,971.00 Donate	His "struggling" was 90% verbal, 10% just squirming a little. Plus he stopped squirming before they zapped him. And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

12-20-2007, 12:42 PM	#30
Acradius Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Where Time, Space and Reality fade, and there is left only the mind... Gender: Posts: 938 Thanks: 20 Thanked 27 Times in 19 Posts Points: 13,639.95 Bank: 20,759.72 Total Points: 34,399.67 Donate	Guys like this one are the very reason we have the first amendment at all. It's not only our right to criticize our government, it's our duty as American citizens to do so. It was included because when the Constitution and the Bill of Rights were written, people were downright furious at actions like this. The only difference now is between campus cops and redcoat British.