What it sounds like now...

**Crazyswordsman** · 12-12-2007, 07:17 PM

Quote:

My faith is my life - it defines me. My faith doesn't influence my decisions, it drives them...I don't separate my faith from my personal and professional lives.

-From mikehuckabee.com

Quote:

Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom…freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone.

-Romney's "Religion Speech"

This has got to stop. You should be driven by the issues you got elected on and how you got elected, not on your relationship with God. Being an elected official does not require you to have a relationship with God. In fact, you have to represent all those who elected you, and that includes those whose views on God differs from your own. Keep the cross (or the star or the crescent or the yin or the yang or whatever) away from my Constitution! -CSM

***CaptHayfever*** · 12-13-2007, 08:43 PM

Hasn't Romney been specifically saying that he won't let his church coerce his White House?

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

betasoldier · 12-13-2007, 11:09 PM

Romney is... Romney. I'm an, as I'm sure most of you know, ultraconservative and I don't like the guy. And before anyway says anything no, not because he's mormon. Just don't like his politics, he's as much a flip flopper as Kerry. Of course, I haven't really kept up much with politics these past few months so... yeah.

ShyGuy727 · 12-14-2007, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazysnowman

Keep the cross (or the star or the crescent or the yin or the yang or whatever) away from my Constitution! -CSM

Even though the constitution was founded on Christianity to begin with? Why is it that over the course of 220 years that the things this country was founded on are now considered unconstitutional?

Quote:

'We have staked the whole of all our political
institutions upon the capacity of mankind for
self-government, upon the capacity of each and
all of us to govern ourselves, to control
ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to
the Ten Commandments of God.'

-James Madison

Quote:

'It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too
often that this great nation was founded not
by religionists but by Christians, not on
religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ'.

-Patrick Henry

Quote:

'Americans should select and prefer Christians
as their rulers.'

The very first Supreme Court Justice, John Jay

**Crazyswordsman** · 12-14-2007, 12:37 PM

Beta: You know, what I'd REALLY like to see is Romney get the nomination and people start accusing us of opposing him because he's a Mormon (which, of course, we don't do), while these people who support him after he gets nominated accused him of being a Mormon during his primary campaign. -CSM

ShyGuy727 · 12-14-2007, 03:09 PM

Quote:

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars."

-George Washington

It's not a coincidence that we swear the oath on the bible, a statue of Moses holding the Ten Commandments sits outside the Supreme Court building, as well as multiple other displays of the commandments throughout the building. Bible verses are etched on tons of federal buildings and monuments, every session of Congress begins with a prayer led by a paid priest, etc etc

**Crazyswordsman** · 12-14-2007, 03:19 PM

The founders of this nation weren't influenced by Christianity as much as they were by the ideas of the Enlightemnent. People like Jean-Jaques Rosseau, Voltaire, Le Baron de Montesquieu, John Locke, and Adam Smith. Thomas Jefferson himself used Locke as his influence when he wrote the Declaration of Independence. These people were directly rebelling against the church. Our founders were Deists when it came to public policy.

ShyGuy, I have a question for you: what did you think when a Hindu chaplain led Congress, and what do you think of Keith Ellison serving in Congress? -CSM

I am nobody · 12-14-2007, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,

That's the first sentence in the Bill Of Rights. Why would this be in there if the U.S. was a Christian country?

EmoCL · 12-14-2007, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShyGuy727

Even though the constitution was founded on Christianity to begin with? Why is it that over the course of 220 years that the things this country was founded on are now considered unconstitutional?

Did it ever occur to you that, over 220 years, times change??

Originally, our government's idea of 'freedom' was to have everything based on religion and slavery was ok.

Now, we've come to realize that the best way to prosperity is for people to follow their own paths and do WHAT THEY WANT. That is true freedom.

220 years later, people have their own ideas and are not as easily ruled. If I WANT to be ruled by a religion I'll just live in a church and become a pastor or priest or whatever, but if I want to live in a society where people are FREE, I'd like to be able to have my own ideas and not be ruled by someone who forces their beliefs on everyone.

Times change, and people realize what freedom truly is. AND IT IS OUR RIGHT TO HAVE IT.

Galefore · 12-14-2007, 11:08 PM

I hate this kind of argument, but I think I'll put my two cents in. The thing is, we're free to whatever religion here. Bickering pointlessly over it leads to the very division that leads to more bickering that leads to more division and so on. Even if some of the founding fathers had a Christian faith, several were also in other religions and religious cults. Doesn't matter to me. I just don't like leaders pushing a religion down a country's throat. I am a Christian, yes, but even I dislike leaders trying to abrasively convert people despite the fact that some don't want to convert. It's wrong.

As for Romney... Eh.

***CaptHayfever*** · 12-15-2007, 06:23 PM

^This.
Besides, there's really no such thing as true forced conversion anyway.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

DELICIOUS POISON · 01-04-2008, 04:38 AM

Well, there can be the threat of death. I hear that the Spanish were quite adept in the ways of coercion.

I don't owe any particular allegiance to any country or its laws, having had it forced on me since birth. No politician will ever serve my interests. The closest they can get seems to be to disagree with the people who would harm others.

***CaptHayfever*** · 01-04-2008, 02:02 PM

That's not true conversion. Someone just saying things & going through the motions to avoid being killed does not constitute actual belief.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

12-13-2007, 08:43 PM	#2
*CaptHayfever* Smash Supermod Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: (n) - the place where I am Gender: Posts: 19,528 Thanks: 181 Thanked 831 Times in 524 Posts Points: 111,523.24 Bank: 1,243.31 Total Points: 112,766.55 Donate	Hasn't Romney been specifically saying that he won't let his church coerce his White House? And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

12-13-2007, 11:09 PM	#3
betasoldier Junior Member Join Date: May 2007 Gender: Posts: 106 Thanks: 10 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Points: 2,931.66 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 2,931.66 Donate	Romney is... Romney. I'm an, as I'm sure most of you know, ultraconservative and I don't like the guy. And before anyway says anything no, not because he's mormon. Just don't like his politics, he's as much a flip flopper as Kerry. Of course, I haven't really kept up much with politics these past few months so... yeah.

12-14-2007, 12:37 PM	#5
Crazyswordsman RPG Mod Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Booyaville (yeah!) Gender: Posts: 8,125 Thanks: 553 Thanked 392 Times in 267 Posts Points: 138,839.55 Bank: 36,646.84 Total Points: 175,486.39 Donate	Beta: You know, what I'd REALLY like to see is Romney get the nomination and people start accusing us of opposing him because he's a Mormon (which, of course, we don't do), while these people who support him after he gets nominated accused him of being a Mormon during his primary campaign. -CSM

12-14-2007, 03:19 PM	#7
Crazyswordsman RPG Mod Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Booyaville (yeah!) Gender: Posts: 8,125 Thanks: 553 Thanked 392 Times in 267 Posts Points: 138,839.55 Bank: 36,646.84 Total Points: 175,486.39 Donate	The founders of this nation weren't influenced by Christianity as much as they were by the ideas of the Enlightemnent. People like Jean-Jaques Rosseau, Voltaire, Le Baron de Montesquieu, John Locke, and Adam Smith. Thomas Jefferson himself used Locke as his influence when he wrote the Declaration of Independence. These people were directly rebelling against the church. Our founders were Deists when it came to public policy. ShyGuy, I have a question for you: what did you think when a Hindu chaplain led Congress, and what do you think of Keith Ellison serving in Congress? -CSM

12-14-2007, 11:08 PM	#10
Galefore Gunjinkeeper Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Tumbledown Cottage Gender: Posts: 5,736 Thanks: 668 Thanked 396 Times in 296 Posts Blog Entries: 2 Points: 400.96 Bank: 19,969.25 Total Points: 20,370.21 Donate	I hate this kind of argument, but I think I'll put my two cents in. The thing is, we're free to whatever religion here. Bickering pointlessly over it leads to the very division that leads to more bickering that leads to more division and so on. Even if some of the founding fathers had a Christian faith, several were also in other religions and religious cults. Doesn't matter to me. I just don't like leaders pushing a religion down a country's throat. I am a Christian, yes, but even I dislike leaders trying to abrasively convert people despite the fact that some don't want to convert. It's wrong. As for Romney... Eh.

12-15-2007, 06:23 PM	#11
*CaptHayfever* Smash Supermod Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: (n) - the place where I am Gender: Posts: 19,528 Thanks: 181 Thanked 831 Times in 524 Posts Points: 111,523.24 Bank: 1,243.31 Total Points: 112,766.55 Donate	^This. Besides, there's really no such thing as true forced conversion anyway. And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

01-04-2008, 04:38 AM	#12
DELICIOUS POISON Retro Nintendo Supermod Art & Literature Mod Metroid Mod Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 16,224 Thanks: 519 Thanked 1,367 Times in 704 Posts Points: 6,382.05 Bank: 2,464,338.98 Total Points: 2,470,721.03 Donate	Well, there can be the threat of death. I hear that the Spanish were quite adept in the ways of coercion. I don't owe any particular allegiance to any country or its laws, having had it forced on me since birth. No politician will ever serve my interests. The closest they can get seems to be to disagree with the people who would harm others.

01-04-2008, 02:02 PM	#13
*CaptHayfever* Smash Supermod Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: (n) - the place where I am Gender: Posts: 19,528 Thanks: 181 Thanked 831 Times in 524 Posts Points: 111,523.24 Bank: 1,243.31 Total Points: 112,766.55 Donate	That's not true conversion. Someone just saying things & going through the motions to avoid being killed does not constitute actual belief. And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"