Welfare

Kil'jaeden · 05-01-2008, 05:29 PM

I had a debate with a few friends 2 days ago, occasioned by a remark from one of them. I said something on how the government jumps to give subsidies and tax breaks to huge corporations and to bail out huge banks, but then people complain about welfare coming out of taxes. I said we're better off abolishing the former and keeping welfare. One of my friends there has some sort of vehement hatred of welfare, and no matter what I mentioned that would be better to cut and lower taxes, he still went against it. Heck, he supported the subsidies and tax breaks to the big corporations over welfare to poor people, because as he said, "They pay alot of taxes" and "They need to be encouraged to stay here in America." I said that they take the tax breaks and tax money even while turning out huge profits and eliminating American jobs by outsourcing and employing virtual slave labor. His reply was that not all companies are gone, and that they should still get the benefits.Then he went on about how many people on welfare are lazy and abuse the system. If they wanted to, they could make enough money. My other friend, who was more on my side, mentioned the situation of a single mom with a minimum wage job. That didn't deter him, he just said they should take out a student loan and get a degree, and then work. All this seems to simplify it all to me. I know people abuse welfare, I know people who do. But some people still need it. Either that, or they just become homeless. And I'd rather the people who need it get the money than rich companies who have plenty of money.

**Crazyswordsman** · 05-01-2008, 06:12 PM

Well, the corporations are given tax breaks to outsource overseas and to do other horrible things. They're not given incentives for the right reasons at all.

And as for whoever said people on welfare are lazy bums, a good percentage of them are NOT. Many of them are from poor neighborhoods and are struggling to find jobs. Many of them have children they have to take care of. Many of them do work at jobs which pay absolutely nothing and have no benefits, and some even have to work TWO jobs. Their children don't get good educations and thus will be forced to live this same life. -CSM

Kil'jaeden · 05-01-2008, 06:47 PM

What would really bring back businesses is pretty simple. Abolish the Anti-Trust laws, abolish minimum wage, abolish limits on hours, lower taxes on corporations, with plenty of ways to avoid taxes, take out unions(The lucky few that aren't puppets of the corporation anyway), and throw out all those inconvenient environmental laws. In short, back to the 1880's-90's.

I am nobody · 05-01-2008, 06:54 PM

^Wouldn't taking over the world be easier?

Kil'jaeden · 05-01-2008, 06:58 PM

Well, I haven't run a cost analysis of it yet, nor has it been brought up in a board meeting, and I lack any pie graphs on it, so at this time I have no opinion.

**Crazyswordsman** · 05-01-2008, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kil'jaeden

What would really bring back businesses is pretty simple. Abolish the Anti-Trust laws, abolish minimum wage, abolish limits on hours, lower taxes on corporations, with plenty of ways to avoid taxes, take out unions(The lucky few that aren't puppets of the corporation anyway), and throw out all those inconvenient environmental laws. In short, back to the 1880's-90's.

I hope you're not seriously deciding we should do all that. -CSM

Kil'jaeden · 05-01-2008, 07:17 PM

Sarcasm. But that's what they want, it's why they outsource to poor regions. It's why they are really cosy in places where human rights don't exist.

**Crazyswordsman** · 05-01-2008, 07:21 PM

^And eventually those countries will also pass human rights laws. -CSM

I am nobody · 05-01-2008, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSM Juarez

^And eventually those countries will also pass human rights laws. -CSM

China/Vietnam? Not without force.

**Crazyswordsman** · 05-02-2008, 03:15 AM

^Well, the democratic ones, at least. -CSM

LinkManDX · 05-02-2008, 01:27 PM

Not a fan of welfare to people who have the capacity to work but either choose not to/get fired from every job due to incompetence/are generally lazy people.

However, if a person is incapacitated from working due to medical (including mental health) reasons, then they should be able to receive welfare.

DELICIOUS POISON · 05-05-2008, 06:41 PM

If someone is merely incompetent, it is the state's responsibility to see that they are cared for. Welfare is the easiest way.

For starters, I think it's wrong not to provide someone a means to living and deny them a right to die. If we're going to dictate how a man's allowed to live, we shouldn't dictate how a man's allowed to die.

I think the whole system is broken, though. People don't care for eachother.

Kil'jaeden · 05-05-2008, 07:43 PM

What irritates me is that people, like my friend, think having a job means you can pay for everything. Having two jobs sometimes isn't even enough. People complain about their taxes going into welfare, wanting to limit it in time, when these big companies are getting much more on top of their profits. If anything, more people should be concerned about the latter, but I rarely see any. I also wonder why so many people worship Ronald Reagan, but that's another question for another time.

DELICIOUS POISON · 05-06-2008, 01:09 AM

Ronald Reagan was a joke.

I work hard every day, and I can afford to eat with plenty of amneties, but I don't have time or energy enough to enjoy my life as I want. I don't see it as a solution to anything. I don't agree with this culture, or the people who say you should just get a job. Are they going to start offering jobs to the homeless?

**Dr. Horrible** · 05-21-2008, 02:04 AM

I hate them in Assassin's Creed.

Brandon2390 · 05-21-2008, 01:50 PM

My friend basically is the same way. I was driving with him one time discussing an issue similar to this, and he said something along the lines of "I can't believe homeless people. How can anybody be that lazy? Just get a job." I almost stopped the car and asked him to get out right there. I think most homeless people would do whatever they can to be out of this position.

But thats besides the point.

***CaptHayfever*** · 05-21-2008, 02:02 PM

Yeah, it's really easy to get hired when the only clothes you own are covered in crud from the alley where you've been sleeping. What are homeless people complaining about?

I love how throughout our childhood we're constantly taught that appearances aren't what's important, but then as soon as we try to get work, it's suddenly the only thing in the world that matters.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

**Crazyswordsman** · 05-21-2008, 06:06 PM

^Heh. Tell me about it. I'll tell you about the number of businesses I got turned down for an interview because I could only afford slacks and a blazer and not a suit. -CSM

05-01-2008, 05:29 PM	#1
Kil'jaeden Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: in your mind Gender: Posts: 1,497 Thanks: 19 Thanked 42 Times in 32 Posts Points: 11,248.71 Bank: 1,400.16 Total Points: 12,648.87 Donate	Welfare I had a debate with a few friends 2 days ago, occasioned by a remark from one of them. I said something on how the government jumps to give subsidies and tax breaks to huge corporations and to bail out huge banks, but then people complain about welfare coming out of taxes. I said we're better off abolishing the former and keeping welfare. One of my friends there has some sort of vehement hatred of welfare, and no matter what I mentioned that would be better to cut and lower taxes, he still went against it. Heck, he supported the subsidies and tax breaks to the big corporations over welfare to poor people, because as he said, "They pay alot of taxes" and "They need to be encouraged to stay here in America." I said that they take the tax breaks and tax money even while turning out huge profits and eliminating American jobs by outsourcing and employing virtual slave labor. His reply was that not all companies are gone, and that they should still get the benefits.Then he went on about how many people on welfare are lazy and abuse the system. If they wanted to, they could make enough money. My other friend, who was more on my side, mentioned the situation of a single mom with a minimum wage job. That didn't deter him, he just said they should take out a student loan and get a degree, and then work. All this seems to simplify it all to me. I know people abuse welfare, I know people who do. But some people still need it. Either that, or they just become homeless. And I'd rather the people who need it get the money than rich companies who have plenty of money.

05-01-2008, 06:12 PM	#2
Crazyswordsman RPG Mod Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Booyaville (yeah!) Gender: Posts: 8,350 Thanks: 584 Thanked 434 Times in 285 Posts Points: 151,956.84 Bank: 54,455.27 Total Points: 206,412.11 Donate	Well, the corporations are given tax breaks to outsource overseas and to do other horrible things. They're not given incentives for the right reasons at all. And as for whoever said people on welfare are lazy bums, a good percentage of them are NOT. Many of them are from poor neighborhoods and are struggling to find jobs. Many of them have children they have to take care of. Many of them do work at jobs which pay absolutely nothing and have no benefits, and some even have to work TWO jobs. Their children don't get good educations and thus will be forced to live this same life. -CSM

05-01-2008, 06:47 PM	#3
Kil'jaeden Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: in your mind Gender: Posts: 1,497 Thanks: 19 Thanked 42 Times in 32 Posts Points: 11,248.71 Bank: 1,400.16 Total Points: 12,648.87 Donate	What would really bring back businesses is pretty simple. Abolish the Anti-Trust laws, abolish minimum wage, abolish limits on hours, lower taxes on corporations, with plenty of ways to avoid taxes, take out unions(The lucky few that aren't puppets of the corporation anyway), and throw out all those inconvenient environmental laws. In short, back to the 1880's-90's.

05-01-2008, 06:54 PM	#4
I am nobody Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Here's a hint: There are people here. Gender: Posts: 3,382 Thanks: 127 Thanked 158 Times in 105 Posts Blog Entries: 4 Points: 503.29 Bank: 14,717.59 Total Points: 15,220.88 Donate	^Wouldn't taking over the world be easier?

05-01-2008, 06:58 PM	#5
Kil'jaeden Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: in your mind Gender: Posts: 1,497 Thanks: 19 Thanked 42 Times in 32 Posts Points: 11,248.71 Bank: 1,400.16 Total Points: 12,648.87 Donate	Well, I haven't run a cost analysis of it yet, nor has it been brought up in a board meeting, and I lack any pie graphs on it, so at this time I have no opinion.

05-01-2008, 07:17 PM	#7
Kil'jaeden Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: in your mind Gender: Posts: 1,497 Thanks: 19 Thanked 42 Times in 32 Posts Points: 11,248.71 Bank: 1,400.16 Total Points: 12,648.87 Donate	Sarcasm. But that's what they want, it's why they outsource to poor regions. It's why they are really cosy in places where human rights don't exist.

05-01-2008, 07:21 PM	#8
Crazyswordsman RPG Mod Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Booyaville (yeah!) Gender: Posts: 8,350 Thanks: 584 Thanked 434 Times in 285 Posts Points: 151,956.84 Bank: 54,455.27 Total Points: 206,412.11 Donate	^And eventually those countries will also pass human rights laws. -CSM

05-02-2008, 03:15 AM	#10
Crazyswordsman RPG Mod Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Booyaville (yeah!) Gender: Posts: 8,350 Thanks: 584 Thanked 434 Times in 285 Posts Points: 151,956.84 Bank: 54,455.27 Total Points: 206,412.11 Donate	^Well, the democratic ones, at least. -CSM

05-02-2008, 01:27 PM	#11
LinkManDX Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Some call it slums, some call it nice! Gender: Posts: 3,385 Thanks: 259 Thanked 219 Times in 131 Posts Points: 19,091.31 Bank: 8,185.78 Total Points: 27,277.09 Donate	Not a fan of welfare to people who have the capacity to work but either choose not to/get fired from every job due to incompetence/are generally lazy people. However, if a person is incapacitated from working due to medical (including mental health) reasons, then they should be able to receive welfare.

05-05-2008, 06:41 PM	#12
DELICIOUS POISON Retro Nintendo Supermod Art & Literature Mod Metroid Mod Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 16,577 Thanks: 554 Thanked 1,593 Times in 786 Posts Points: 7,244.60 Bank: 3,531,872.84 Total Points: 3,539,117.44 Donate	If someone is merely incompetent, it is the state's responsibility to see that they are cared for. Welfare is the easiest way. For starters, I think it's wrong not to provide someone a means to living and deny them a right to die. If we're going to dictate how a man's allowed to live, we shouldn't dictate how a man's allowed to die. I think the whole system is broken, though. People don't care for eachother.

05-05-2008, 07:43 PM	#13
Kil'jaeden Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: in your mind Gender: Posts: 1,497 Thanks: 19 Thanked 42 Times in 32 Posts Points: 11,248.71 Bank: 1,400.16 Total Points: 12,648.87 Donate	What irritates me is that people, like my friend, think having a job means you can pay for everything. Having two jobs sometimes isn't even enough. People complain about their taxes going into welfare, wanting to limit it in time, when these big companies are getting much more on top of their profits. If anything, more people should be concerned about the latter, but I rarely see any. I also wonder why so many people worship Ronald Reagan, but that's another question for another time.

05-06-2008, 01:09 AM	#14
DELICIOUS POISON Retro Nintendo Supermod Art & Literature Mod Metroid Mod Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 16,577 Thanks: 554 Thanked 1,593 Times in 786 Posts Points: 7,244.60 Bank: 3,531,872.84 Total Points: 3,539,117.44 Donate	Ronald Reagan was a joke. I work hard every day, and I can afford to eat with plenty of amneties, but I don't have time or energy enough to enjoy my life as I want. I don't see it as a solution to anything. I don't agree with this culture, or the people who say you should just get a job. Are they going to start offering jobs to the homeless?

05-21-2008, 02:04 AM	#15
Dr. Horrible PP&R Mod Current Events Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: More important than where is when.... Gender: Posts: 6,725 Thanks: 126 Thanked 449 Times in 299 Posts Points: 2,697.05 Bank: 3,822,635.27 Total Points: 3,825,332.32 Donate	I hate them in Assassin's Creed.

05-21-2008, 01:50 PM	#16
Brandon2390 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Connecticut Posts: 10,415 Thanks: 6 Thanked 21 Times in 17 Posts Points: 41,633.98 Bank: 1,400.16 Total Points: 43,034.14 Donate	My friend basically is the same way. I was driving with him one time discussing an issue similar to this, and he said something along the lines of "I can't believe homeless people. How can anybody be that lazy? Just get a job." I almost stopped the car and asked him to get out right there. I think most homeless people would do whatever they can to be out of this position. But thats besides the point.

05-21-2008, 02:02 PM	#17
*CaptHayfever* Smash Supermod Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: (n) - the place where I am Gender: Posts: 19,787 Thanks: 238 Thanked 943 Times in 574 Posts Points: 117,638.41 Bank: 1,847.49 Total Points: 119,485.90 Donate	Yeah, it's really easy to get hired when the only clothes you own are covered in crud from the alley where you've been sleeping. What are homeless people complaining about? I love how throughout our childhood we're constantly taught that appearances aren't what's important, but then as soon as we try to get work, it's suddenly the only thing in the world that matters. And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

05-21-2008, 06:06 PM	#18
Crazyswordsman RPG Mod Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Booyaville (yeah!) Gender: Posts: 8,350 Thanks: 584 Thanked 434 Times in 285 Posts Points: 151,956.84 Bank: 54,455.27 Total Points: 206,412.11 Donate	^Heh. Tell me about it. I'll tell you about the number of businesses I got turned down for an interview because I could only afford slacks and a blazer and not a suit. -CSM