Second Amendment 'clarification'

[Kargath]

Judges uphold 'right to bear arms' | theage.com.au
Seems important for you Americans. Though again, I am barred from comment, I'd still like to hear your thoughts.

[CaptHayfever]

Just remember, guys: This does not ban all gun laws; it just says laws can't ban all guns.

Also remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

[ZeldaGirl]

But while the Supreme Court was prepared to strike down the District of Columbia's virtually blanket ban on owning a hand gun, it has left open the way for states to continue to prevent criminals and mentally-ill people owning guns and to stop guns being carried into sensitive areas like schools and government buildings.

I approve.

[PK FIRE!]

^ That sounds reasenable.

[Crazyswordsman]

I dream of a world with no guns. -CSM

[Cosmonautical]

Aye, but it's just a dream world.

[Speed]

Originally Posted by Crazyswordsman

I dream of a world with no guns. -CSM

But what about MGS?

[CaptHayfever]

Originally Posted by Crazyswordsman

I dream of a world with no guns. -CSM

It'd be nice. But legislation shouldn't (& won't) make it happen; maturity should.

And remember, "I'm-a gonna show you a world without sin."

[PK FIRE!]

The Cap has a point, if there were no guns the less mentaly stable and criminals would find a diffrent way to accomplish what they want.

- You stupid dog!

[Crazyswordsman]

Originally Posted by AI

But what about MGS?

Originally Posted by speed is OVER 9000

But what about MGS?

Originally Posted by Capt

It'd be nice. But legislation shouldn't (& won't) make it happen; maturity should.

And remember, "I'm-a gonna show you a world without sin."

Some may say I'm a dreamer.
But I'm not the only one.

-CSM

[Kargath]

I can't give my personal opinion, but I figured this might be useful for any debate, and to give an idea of an outsider's view:
Australia:
Population = 20 million approx
Crime stats: http://www.ausstats.abs.gov.au/ausstats/subscriber.nsf/0/3DC2485395A1FAACCA25747300125594/$File/45100_2007.pdf
Total murders in 2006: 281
Firearms laws: Extremely tough in comparison to the US
US:
Population: 303 million approx.
Crime stats: Table 1 - Crime in the United States 2006 (latest I could find)
Total murders in 2006: 17,034
Firearms laws: Varied, but generally liberal
(PS - damn, it was hard to find the official statistics amongst all the different pressure group sites clogging up the search results)

[CaptHayfever]

Also...
AUS Pop Density: 2.6/sqkm
USA Pop Density: 31/sqkm

Between the 15 factor on the raw populations & the 15 factor on the pop density, the US actually has proportionately fewer homicides than Australia (or, it did, in 2006). However, I am weak at statistics, so if I did the density factor wrong (I know I did the raw pop factor correctly), let me know.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

[Lurch1982]

Did anyone read the actual opinion and understand it?

[Kargath]

^^Are you counting the huge desert in the middle where no-one lives?

According to my calculations, the US has a murder rate approximately four times Australia's.

[Eagle Eye]

Originally Posted by Kargath

^^Are you counting the huge desert in the middle where no-one lives?

According to my calculations, the US has a murder rate approximately four times Australia's.

What's sad is Memphis, a city of 650K has 126 murders through 6 months.

[Kargath]

^O_o

[Lurch1982]

Originally Posted by Lurch1982

Did anyone read the actual opinion and understand it?

[Cosmonautical]

If you meant

In a dissenting opinion, Justice John Stevens said that the majority "would have us believe that over 200 years ago, the framers made a choice to limit the tools available to elected officials wishing to regulate civilian uses of weapons".

I'm not sure what he meant to imply.

I can honestly say that a "well-maintained militia" does not bespeak citizens keeping personal handguns in their home.

[Lurch1982]

The problem with the decision isn't the end result, but how Scalia got there and what his reasoning entails for future challenges.

The problem with trying to discuss SC decisions w/o reading them is that you miss the entire logic as explained by the Justices.

Problem here in a nutshell is that Scalia breaks from his traditional interpretive form and essentially jettisons the "Militia" clause and ignores historical evidence that the Founders allowed various gun control restrictions in the city limits. The way Scalia disassembles this particular law makes it much more likely that any other gun control devices are going to be struck down, including the assault rifle/automatic weapon restrictions.

But you don't know any of that if you didn't read the opinions and only rely on news articles written day of.

[Jonnadiah]

Originally Posted by Kargath

I'd still like to hear your thoughts.

Hmmmm I was kind of hoping there would be more discussion on actual beliefs about the second ammendment here.

To start off, a little about me. I'm a registered Democrat and an Obama supporter. During my spare time, I enjoy heading out to the firing range for some trap shooting as well as target practice. Although I'm not a fantastic shot, I do end up with a hit percentage in trap between 50 and 70. My guns of choice are the 20 gauge pump shotgun and the M1 Carbine Semi-Auto rifle respectively.

My stance on gun control has changed a lot since I was first brought to the range. Personally, I think allowing the states the right to pass gun laws is a bit unnerving, especially with the more...Texas-like...states. However, that is not the issue we're here to discuss.

Off the bat, I believe that all automatic long arms and all handguns should be banned for civilian use. These weapons should not be in the hands of the everyday man, nor should ANYONE without the proper police or military training/screening be allowed to own and carry concealable weapons. Handguns were the tools of choice for several high-profile and high-casualty shootings (Columbine and VATech to name a couple) and are very easy to carry around and use. To demostrate this, I know someone who has, on multiple occasions, walked with an airsoft pistol tucked in his belt to public parks, movie theaters, etc. No one noticed or chose to do anything, which was enough to sufficiently scare me into hating handguns.

As for semi-automatic weapons or single shot weapons, I believe that anyone over the age of 18 should be allowed to purchase, own, operate and transport them with proper psychological (a quick 15 minute Q&A with a licensed shrink employed by the government and working with the retailer) and criminal background check. (Clean record gets them the gun as soon as money exchanges hands, Felony record prevents the purchase all together)

Like all rights, I believe gun rights should be phased in over time, to allow proper responsibility to be taught. At age 10, children should be allowed to register (with parental consent) to own and operate a low calibur rifle (probably the .22) Rights to larger, more powerful guns could be phased in at higher ages, with ability for full gun rights upon coming of age (18)

That said, I do believe that citizens do have the right to bear arms, but there's nothing saying the government cannot force people to register for a militia or the military to bear (certain) arms, effectively removing their civilian status and opening the floor for the points I laid out above.

Just my two cents, feel free to butt heads with me on anything, that's why I'm here.