The National Debt

Kil'jaeden · 07-25-2008, 02:18 AM

You hear so much about our $4000000000000 debt, and the measures that may need to be taken to ever pay it off. You hear it being lamented as it increases. But, I have not heard of anyone in the media or government suggesting the sensible and practical solution: destroying the Federal Reserve system.

Kargath · 07-25-2008, 04:53 AM

How do you believe this will help?

***Ace Mercury*** · 07-25-2008, 07:07 AM

I don't think it's a "practicle" solution at all. From what I've heard, the Fed is a good thing. The bad thing is having a national budget which always relies on borrowing money. It turns out that borrowing money puts you in debt.

--------------

[What kind of nonsense are you talking about? All it does is make us look cooler, what is this "debt" and "failing economy" people keep talking about? America **** YEAH

...God help us. ~SML]

Kil'jaeden · 07-27-2008, 03:48 PM

The only thing Federal about it is the fact that the board of governors is appointed by the president. Other than that, it is a set of private banks. A private corporation with huge power over a country's finance. They loan the money they make out of nothing to the government, and the government pays interest.

If the Fed makes all the money, where does that interest money come from? The Fed has to make it, and that means the government has to borrow more money, pay more interest, etc. It is a system based on borrowing and debt. Ace, you said having a national budget based on borrowing was a bad idea, well, this is part of that problem. The Fed can also loan more money than it actually has (like any other private bank), and then charge interest on that loan. Where will that interest come from? If the government borrows money like that, then it will either have to raise taxes to pay the interest on the non-existant money loaned to it, which means it will either have to borrow money from, let's say, China, to pay that off, or else raise taxes, or cut the budget in other places.

Something else to think about is this: We have had the Fed since 1913 (and, oddly enough, income tax comes in the same year). At that time, we were on the gold standard. The Fed printed what are basically IOU's, loaned them to the government, and then collected interest in gold from the government. Paper for gold. Then, we got taken off the gold standard in 1933, and all privately owned gold bullion was taken by the government. The Fed was sold in the first place on the promise of giving us financial stability, but it didn't prevent the Depression, or any of the numerous smaller downturns we have had since it came in. It isn't even our first central bank, and neither of first two central banks did anything good for this country. The one Jackson brought down actually caused a huge panic because it called in all loans and refused to give any more loans. The bank president would not turn his books in until a court order made him.

**Deku Trii** · 07-27-2008, 11:11 PM

I didn't quite make it through that whole wall of text, but can't you pay of that sort of debt by selling goods to other nations?

Bomby · 07-28-2008, 01:30 AM

Bomby's plan for ridding ourselves of a National Debt:

1. Pay it off on a Visa.
2. Pay that off on a Master Card.
3. Pay that off on a Discover Card.
4. Pay that off on an American Express Card.
5. Pay that off on a Diner's Club Card.
6. Defer our Student loans toward it.
7. Take out another mortgage on Alaska. That 2 cents per acre surely has swelled with time.
8. Pay that off with Uwe Boll's German film credit system.
9. Federal Out-Of-Business sale. Better pray your state's bought out by Japan or Canada.

PK FIRE! · 07-30-2008, 11:50 PM

Can't we just sell of Mexico and call it good instead Bomby?

- You stupid dog!

Kae · 07-31-2008, 11:16 PM

Who would buy it?

Bomby · 07-31-2008, 11:18 PM

I'd imagine that California would sell pretty quickly, because of Hollywood. Florida get some good tourism dollars, too. A lot of Northern states (Minnesota, Massachusetts, and of course my home state of WI) have prestigious universities and research centers that might be valued by advancing countries.

Kil'jaeden · 08-07-2008, 02:09 AM

My main point is that all money we have is borrowed from the Fed has a debt associated with it, a debt to our own central banking system and ultimately to foreign banks. If the government issued currency like the Constitution says, then we would not have that. My secondary point is that the fact the Fed, heck any bank, can loan more than they actually have, and charge interest on that loan, which means money is created out of nothing, which leads to inflation. The cycle just goes on.

07-25-2008, 02:18 AM	#1
Kil'jaeden Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: in your mind Gender: Posts: 2,132 Thanks: 21 Thanked 146 Times in 99 Posts	The National Debt You hear so much about our $4000000000000 debt, and the measures that may need to be taken to ever pay it off. You hear it being lamented as it increases. But, I have not heard of anyone in the media or government suggesting the sensible and practical solution: destroying the Federal Reserve system. Last edited by Kil'jaeden; 07-27-2008 at 03:50 PM.

07-25-2008, 07:07 AM	#3
*Ace Mercury* Marshmallow Knight ☆ Supermod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Southern Ontario Gender: Posts: 23,275 Thanks: 568 Thanked 3,297 Times in 1,582 Posts Blog Entries: 1	I don't think it's a "practicle" solution at all. From what I've heard, the Fed is a good thing. The bad thing is having a national budget which always relies on borrowing money. It turns out that borrowing money puts you in debt. -------------- [What kind of nonsense are you talking about? All it does is make us look cooler, what is this "debt" and "failing economy" people keep talking about? America **** YEAH ...God help us. ~SML] Last edited by Swordmaster Link; 07-25-2008 at 07:51 AM.

07-27-2008, 03:48 PM	#4
Kil'jaeden Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: in your mind Gender: Posts: 2,132 Thanks: 21 Thanked 146 Times in 99 Posts	The only thing Federal about it is the fact that the board of governors is appointed by the president. Other than that, it is a set of private banks. A private corporation with huge power over a country's finance. They loan the money they make out of nothing to the government, and the government pays interest. If the Fed makes all the money, where does that interest money come from? The Fed has to make it, and that means the government has to borrow more money, pay more interest, etc. It is a system based on borrowing and debt. Ace, you said having a national budget based on borrowing was a bad idea, well, this is part of that problem. The Fed can also loan more money than it actually has (like any other private bank), and then charge interest on that loan. Where will that interest come from? If the government borrows money like that, then it will either have to raise taxes to pay the interest on the non-existant money loaned to it, which means it will either have to borrow money from, let's say, China, to pay that off, or else raise taxes, or cut the budget in other places. Something else to think about is this: We have had the Fed since 1913 (and, oddly enough, income tax comes in the same year). At that time, we were on the gold standard. The Fed printed what are basically IOU's, loaned them to the government, and then collected interest in gold from the government. Paper for gold. Then, we got taken off the gold standard in 1933, and all privately owned gold bullion was taken by the government. The Fed was sold in the first place on the promise of giving us financial stability, but it didn't prevent the Depression, or any of the numerous smaller downturns we have had since it came in. It isn't even our first central bank, and neither of first two central banks did anything good for this country. The one Jackson brought down actually caused a huge panic because it called in all loans and refused to give any more loans. The bank president would not turn his books in until a court order made him. Last edited by Kil'jaeden; 08-07-2008 at 01:59 AM.

07-25-2008, 04:53 AM	#2
Kargath et in Arcadia ego Join Date: Jul 2001 Gender: Posts: 8,334 Thanks: 1,226 Thanked 780 Times in 488 Posts	How do you believe this will help?

07-27-2008, 11:11 PM	#5
Deku Trii PP&R Mod Current Events Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Texas Gender: Posts: 9,031 Thanks: 521 Thanked 1,099 Times in 583 Posts	I didn't quite make it through that whole wall of text, but can't you pay of that sort of debt by selling goods to other nations?

07-28-2008, 01:30 AM	#6
Bomby You just freaking blew Joe Biden's mind! Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: WHAT?house Gender: Posts: 19,491 Thanks: 513 Thanked 1,449 Times in 849 Posts Blog Entries: 5	Bomby's plan for ridding ourselves of a National Debt: 1. Pay it off on a Visa. 2. Pay that off on a Master Card. 3. Pay that off on a Discover Card. 4. Pay that off on an American Express Card. 5. Pay that off on a Diner's Club Card. 6. Defer our Student loans toward it. 7. Take out another mortgage on Alaska. That 2 cents per acre surely has swelled with time. 8. Pay that off with Uwe Boll's German film credit system. 9. Federal Out-Of-Business sale. Better pray your state's bought out by Japan or Canada.

07-30-2008, 11:50 PM	#7
PK FIRE! Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: On the run. Gender: Posts: 9,544 Thanks: 175 Thanked 150 Times in 120 Posts	Can't we just sell of Mexico and call it good instead Bomby? - You stupid dog!

07-31-2008, 11:16 PM	#8
Kae Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Gender: Posts: 3,726 Thanks: 43 Thanked 74 Times in 62 Posts	Who would buy it?

07-31-2008, 11:18 PM	#9
Bomby You just freaking blew Joe Biden's mind! Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: WHAT?house Gender: Posts: 19,491 Thanks: 513 Thanked 1,449 Times in 849 Posts Blog Entries: 5	I'd imagine that California would sell pretty quickly, because of Hollywood. Florida get some good tourism dollars, too. A lot of Northern states (Minnesota, Massachusetts, and of course my home state of WI) have prestigious universities and research centers that might be valued by advancing countries.

08-07-2008, 02:09 AM	#10
Kil'jaeden Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: in your mind Gender: Posts: 2,132 Thanks: 21 Thanked 146 Times in 99 Posts	My main point is that all money we have is borrowed from the Fed has a debt associated with it, a debt to our own central banking system and ultimately to foreign banks. If the government issued currency like the Constitution says, then we would not have that. My secondary point is that the fact the Fed, heck any bank, can loan more than they actually have, and charge interest on that loan, which means money is created out of nothing, which leads to inflation. The cycle just goes on.