Death, Heaven, and Hell

Godot · 01-13-2009, 01:27 PM

Here's some food for thought (kind of a warm up for the day, if you may):

Why do we all believe when we die, we are destined for heaven? Does it ease the loved one's mind that we would become beautiful celestial beings and we never deserve to go to the flaming gates of hell?

Is heaven and hell real, or a state? Is it invented by human mind?

***Booyakasha*** · 01-13-2009, 04:59 PM

Maybe it's just wishful thinking.

I don't know much about the nature of heaven and hell. Maybe it'll be like in the movies--happy little clouds for the good, lake of fire for the bad. Maybe it's something that can't possibly be imagined--a realm of four or more spatial dimensions, inconceivable to the three-dimensional mind. Maybe it's individualised, based on the kind of things you like/hate to do. Maybe it's a simple easy reconnection to the Lord, or perpetual isolation from Him. It's hard to reckon it.

I'm a Platonian, so I think there'll be all manner of perfection floating around in heaven. Things so beautiful and pure that men will weep to look upon them--that kind of thing. Aside from that, I'm stymied.

Godot · 01-13-2009, 06:49 PM

In the beginning God made the earth to be a beautiful paradise.

Do you think heaven would be the...same as earth before the great sin?

e Sorry if these are dumb questions...I've been thinking a lot today.

Luigiman7 · 01-13-2009, 07:17 PM

^ Makes sense that it would. I remember hearing something about a "New Earth" or something along those lines, that God would create a new world with no sadness or sickness or anger, sorrow, ect... And there would only be happiness. I don't know how that would work, honestly, but it could happen.

**Valigarmander** · 01-13-2009, 07:20 PM

This quote by Carl Sagan pretty much sums up my thinking:

"I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking."

***Booyakasha*** · 01-13-2009, 07:42 PM

Interesting.

I've often wondered about it, as well. Might Heaven simply be the Garden?

I ask because it occurs to me that, just as man became unfit as a resident of Eden upon his fall from grace, Eden itself may be unsuitable as a paradise for man.

Conjecture--what if God never actually exiled man from Eden? What if, upon gaining knowledge, man no longer looked on Eden as a paradise, and left it of his own volition?

**Valigarmander** · 01-13-2009, 07:45 PM

^ You make a few interesting points, there. That actually gives one a lot to consider...

Robotazy · 01-14-2009, 08:36 AM

You rot in the ground.

Prince Toad · 01-14-2009, 02:45 PM

^^Don't be a coward. You had it right with the Carl Sagan quote.

Dizzy · 01-14-2009, 04:46 PM

If you're ever in a coma, it's essentially that feeling, just for much, much longer.

**Valigarmander** · 01-14-2009, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince Toad

^^Don't be a coward. You had it right with the Carl Sagan quote.

When was I being a coward? I'm not moving anywhere on my belief about the afterlife, I was just talking about how Boo's scenarios give a different perspective on how the Bible could have been written.

I don't believe in Christ anymore, but that doesn't mean the book doesn't interest me.

Prince Toad · 01-14-2009, 07:12 PM

Well, it sounded like you were rethinking your stance. If not then I apologize. I don't have much patience for biblical nonsense after finally reading parts of the thing.

**Valigarmander** · 01-14-2009, 07:16 PM

Nah, it'd take a lot more then that to get me to really believe in an afterlife.

Metal Man · 01-15-2009, 02:03 AM

It is but unfortunate that there is seemingly only one life.

Anything that suggests otherwise would have to be made by a non-human being for me to have even half a belief in it, for humans bend things to their will when they try to explain them.

**Deku Trii** · 01-15-2009, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince Toad

Well, it sounded like you were rethinking your stance. If not then I apologize. I don't have much patience for biblical nonsense after finally reading parts of the thing.

It's totally cowardly to rethink things.

***Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds*** · 01-15-2009, 04:17 AM

A person's stance on any subject will last only as long as they're either blindly stubborn and refuse to consider alternatives, or are convinced of another viewpoint and change their mind based on the new information.

Yep. Totally cowardly. I'll remember never to change my mind or admit I was wrong about anything ever again.

***Cosmonautical*** · 01-15-2009, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds

I'll remember never to change my mind or admit I was wrong about anything ever again.

hey it works for the president

Prince Toad · 01-15-2009, 02:01 PM

It is cowardly not to stand by one's beliefs. You can think about or change your beliefs, of course, but you shouldn't put something out there and then back away from it as soon as an alternative is proposed.

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! · 01-28-2009, 03:39 PM

^ What are you, the Belief Police?

Your last post here makes little sense; the entire point to your posts here is, "You were right not to believe in God, don't rethink it," and also that one is a "coward" not to stand by his beliefs.

Did you not notice that he no longer believes in Christ, as in, he once did? So he's not a coward to abandon his faith, but only to give thought into regaining it?

Sorry, but you see things through a veil of bias.

Btw, Val, I mean no offense to you.

Robotazy · 01-28-2009, 04:17 PM

IRHP is flaming/starting a debate.

let us refute him.

lawlawlawlawl

01-13-2009, 01:27 PM	#1
Godot Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Coffee. Gender: Posts: 6,054 Thanks: 169 Thanked 161 Times in 102 Posts	Death, Heaven, and Hell Here's some food for thought (kind of a warm up for the day, if you may): Why do we all believe when we die, we are destined for heaven? Does it ease the loved one's mind that we would become beautiful celestial beings and we never deserve to go to the flaming gates of hell? Is heaven and hell real, or a state? Is it invented by human mind?

01-13-2009, 07:17 PM	#4
Luigiman7 ヽ(◔ ◡ ◔)ノ.･ﾟ*｡･+☆ Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: ~)´◡｀(~ Gender: Posts: 17,605 Thanks: 1,134 Thanked 1,012 Times in 713 Posts Blog Entries: 8	^ Makes sense that it would. I remember hearing something about a "New Earth" or something along those lines, that God would create a new world with no sadness or sickness or anger, sorrow, ect... And there would only be happiness. I don't know how that would work, honestly, but it could happen. __________________ ／人◕ ‿‿ ◕人＼ＷＯＮ’Ｔ　ＹＯＵ　ＢＥＣＯＭＥ　Ａ　ＭＡＧＩＣＡＬ　ＧＩＲＬ？

01-14-2009, 08:36 AM	#8
Robotazy PRESS ANY KEY TO PANIC! Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: A Tiny Shed Gender: Posts: 16,483 Thanks: 529 Thanked 1,254 Times in 897 Posts Blog Entries: 46	*Blunt answer.exe* You rot in the ground.

01-28-2009, 03:39 PM	#19
I REALLY HATE POKEMON! Goku lives on the Sun Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: California, U.S.A Gender: Posts: 12,717 Thanks: 1,334 Thanked 275 Times in 234 Posts Blog Entries: 1	These are only my observations and opinions, not flames or the start of a debate. ^ What are you, the Belief Police? Your last post here makes little sense; the entire point to your posts here is, "You were right not to believe in God, don't rethink it," and also that one is a "coward" not to stand by his beliefs. Did you not notice that he no longer believes in Christ, as in, he once did? So he's not a coward to abandon his faith, but only to give thought into regaining it? Sorry, but you see things through a veil of bias. Btw, Val, I mean no offense to you.

01-13-2009, 04:59 PM	#2
*Booyakasha* SuperMod of War Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Wisconsinland Gender: Posts: 9,945 Thanks: 157 Thanked 1,481 Times in 763 Posts	Maybe it's just wishful thinking. I don't know much about the nature of heaven and hell. Maybe it'll be like in the movies--happy little clouds for the good, lake of fire for the bad. Maybe it's something that can't possibly be imagined--a realm of four or more spatial dimensions, inconceivable to the three-dimensional mind. Maybe it's individualised, based on the kind of things you like/hate to do. Maybe it's a simple easy reconnection to the Lord, or perpetual isolation from Him. It's hard to reckon it. I'm a Platonian, so I think there'll be all manner of perfection floating around in heaven. Things so beautiful and pure that men will weep to look upon them--that kind of thing. Aside from that, I'm stymied.

01-13-2009, 06:49 PM	#3
Godot Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Coffee. Gender: Posts: 6,054 Thanks: 169 Thanked 161 Times in 102 Posts	In the beginning God made the earth to be a beautiful paradise. Do you think heaven would be the...same as earth before the great sin? e Sorry if these are dumb questions...I've been thinking a lot today.

01-13-2009, 07:20 PM	#5
Valigarmander The Bee's Knees Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The land of rain and trees (Oregon) Gender: Posts: 29,755 Thanks: 1,649 Thanked 5,700 Times in 2,580 Posts Blog Entries: 20	This quote by Carl Sagan pretty much sums up my thinking: "I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking."

01-13-2009, 07:42 PM	#6
*Booyakasha* SuperMod of War Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Wisconsinland Gender: Posts: 9,945 Thanks: 157 Thanked 1,481 Times in 763 Posts	Interesting. I've often wondered about it, as well. Might Heaven simply be the Garden? I ask because it occurs to me that, just as man became unfit as a resident of Eden upon his fall from grace, Eden itself may be unsuitable as a paradise for man. Conjecture--what if God never actually exiled man from Eden? What if, upon gaining knowledge, man no longer looked on Eden as a paradise, and left it of his own volition?

01-13-2009, 07:45 PM	#7
Valigarmander The Bee's Knees Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The land of rain and trees (Oregon) Gender: Posts: 29,755 Thanks: 1,649 Thanked 5,700 Times in 2,580 Posts Blog Entries: 20	^ You make a few interesting points, there. That actually gives one a lot to consider...

01-14-2009, 02:45 PM	#9
Prince Toad Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Rookery Gender: Posts: 11,720 Thanks: 50 Thanked 65 Times in 56 Posts	^^Don't be a coward. You had it right with the Carl Sagan quote.

01-14-2009, 04:46 PM	#10
Dizzy Podiaphobe Join Date: Oct 2007 Gender: Posts: 19,359 Thanks: 1,764 Thanked 1,161 Times in 804 Posts Blog Entries: 116	If you're ever in a coma, it's essentially that feeling, just for much, much longer.

01-14-2009, 07:12 PM	#12
Prince Toad Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Rookery Gender: Posts: 11,720 Thanks: 50 Thanked 65 Times in 56 Posts	Well, it sounded like you were rethinking your stance. If not then I apologize. I don't have much patience for biblical nonsense after finally reading parts of the thing.

01-14-2009, 07:16 PM	#13
Valigarmander The Bee's Knees Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The land of rain and trees (Oregon) Gender: Posts: 29,755 Thanks: 1,649 Thanked 5,700 Times in 2,580 Posts Blog Entries: 20	Nah, it'd take a lot more then that to get me to really believe in an afterlife.

01-15-2009, 02:03 AM	#14
Metal Man Fairy-Slaying Maniac Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: 1592 Miles Away From Here Gender: Posts: 18,062 Thanks: 148 Thanked 683 Times in 482 Posts	It is but unfortunate that there is seemingly only one life. Anything that suggests otherwise would have to be made by a non-human being for me to have even half a belief in it, for humans bend things to their will when they try to explain them.

01-15-2009, 04:17 AM	#16
*Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds* Admin "mine.. not yours. NO. MINE." Epic Ladynerd Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Forteresse de Valois Gender: Posts: 28,504 Thanks: 1,658 Thanked 1,820 Times in 1,042 Posts	A person's stance on any subject will last only as long as they're either blindly stubborn and refuse to consider alternatives, or are convinced of another viewpoint and change their mind based on the new information. Yep. Totally cowardly. I'll remember never to change my mind or admit I was wrong about anything ever again.

01-15-2009, 02:01 PM	#18
Prince Toad Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Rookery Gender: Posts: 11,720 Thanks: 50 Thanked 65 Times in 56 Posts	It is cowardly not to stand by one's beliefs. You can think about or change your beliefs, of course, but you shouldn't put something out there and then back away from it as soon as an alternative is proposed.

01-28-2009, 04:17 PM	#20
Robotazy PRESS ANY KEY TO PANIC! Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: A Tiny Shed Gender: Posts: 16,483 Thanks: 529 Thanked 1,254 Times in 897 Posts Blog Entries: 46	IRHP is flaming/starting a debate. let us refute him. lawlawlawlawl