Vincent Li's Verdict

El Barto · 03-06-2009, 12:08 AM

Man, is the fuss over this getting on my nerves.

I'm not sure how familiar Americans are with the story of Vincent Li, but basically, he committed a bizzare and disturbing murder on a Greyhound bus last year, in which he pulled out a large knife and decapitated the passenger next to him. Him and the victim, Tim Mclean, had no prior connection. He reportedly cut McLean's head off, and ate parts of his body. The rest of the passengers evacuated and trapped Li in the bus.

Even before a sentence was handed down, Mclean's family, and a lot of other people, have been protesting the idea that Li could be found not criminally responsible (NCR). The believe that he should still be punished, even if he is too mentally ill to comprehend his actions (as is necessary to establish in order for the defense to have someone considered NCR).

Actually, his family has said a lot of things. His mom has said "it is a tragedy that the police who arrived at the scene allowed Li to leave the bus alive" (ie: did not summarily execute him), that Canada should instate the death penalty for this one special incident... things like that.

Clearly, these demands are insane. Even the loosest understanding of the incident should make it apparent that Li was probably suffering from a severe menal illness; rational, mentally stable people don't decapitate and canibalize strangers for no reason. Unsurprisingly, psychiatric evaluations of Li and an examination of his past revealed a severe case of schizophrenia. Li apparently believed that Mclean was trying to kill him. It was such a cut-and-dried case of NCR that the prosecution wasn't trying to convict him. This is to say how absurd it is to say he should be considered criminally responsible; I'm ignoring the highly unconstitutional other stuff. Today, he was found NCR.

I'm not trying to condemn Mclean's family, who are understandibly distraught. But the huge number of people who seem to agree with them is frankly disturbing. Callers to CBC programs, editorials in ****ty newspapers, Facebook group after Facebook group... I cannot believe that so many Canadians are this small-minded and ignorant.

Robotazy · 03-06-2009, 12:16 AM

People are stupid, you should know that.

Also. A Life Sentence would solve everyone's problems.

Or Mental Institution. For Life. I guess :/

Neither is fine.

***Cosmonautical*** · 03-07-2009, 02:12 AM

IT'S WRONG TO KILL SOMEONE

NOW WE'RE GONNA KILL YOU BECAUSE YOU DID

NO, IT'S OKAY FOR US TO DO IT, BECAUSE YOU DID IT FIRST

</death sentence>

Of course the criminally insane have no concept of "right" or "wrong" when it comes to things like violence and death. Society as a whole is bloodthirsty. We see violence as a means to an end, but only if it's government sanctioned. Like if enough people want to rape someone it somehow becomes acceptable.

Don't you think that sends a message to other would-be killers? Kill someone and we'll kill you if we catch you? Do as I say and not as I do?

If someone is so powerfully misanthropic, and they hate you despite never having met you, does that hatred justify killing you? So why does public hatred justify an execution?

t3hDarkness · 03-07-2009, 02:46 AM

The people that call for his death are too disturbed by his act to think rationally and objectively.

Making a special exception to the law in order to kill a crazy person is unjust.
Laws having special exceptions in order to protect criminally insane may be unjust.

There is really no point if he lives in a padded cell or is executed anymore.
If he has too severe schizophrenia to be treated, then he is a danger to himself and others and would be better off euthanized. If he can be treated then he would most likely be driven to suicide or or other psychosis.

That being said, I am not at all surprised something like this would be done by a Greyhound passenger.

Metal Man · 03-07-2009, 02:55 AM

The irony is the people who want him killed are experiencing similarly violent impulses as he did, just on a slightly lower scale.

**Loot** · 03-07-2009, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tazy Ten

Or Mental Institution. For Life. I guess :/

I speak for many mental hospitals when I say **** no, we can't hold onto a person like that for life. It's way too dangerous.

El Barto · 03-07-2009, 08:48 PM

^Heh. That's exactly what's going to end up happening.

I suspect that it won't be a problem. The psychiatrists that have met with him since then have said that as long as he is supervised by mental health workers who can make sure that he takes his meds, he probably won't become violent.

Robotazy · 03-07-2009, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEED A DISPENSER HERE

I speak for many mental hospitals when I say **** no, we can't hold onto a person like that for life. It's way too dangerous.

It helped for a few of Batman's villains.

Or was it actually none of them?

03-06-2009, 12:08 AM	#1
El Barto Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,721 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Vincent Li's Verdict Man, is the fuss over this getting on my nerves. I'm not sure how familiar Americans are with the story of Vincent Li, but basically, he committed a bizzare and disturbing murder on a Greyhound bus last year, in which he pulled out a large knife and decapitated the passenger next to him. Him and the victim, Tim Mclean, had no prior connection. He reportedly cut McLean's head off, and ate parts of his body. The rest of the passengers evacuated and trapped Li in the bus. Even before a sentence was handed down, Mclean's family, and a lot of other people, have been protesting the idea that Li could be found not criminally responsible (NCR). The believe that he should still be punished, even if he is too mentally ill to comprehend his actions (as is necessary to establish in order for the defense to have someone considered NCR). Actually, his family has said a lot of things. His mom has said "it is a tragedy that the police who arrived at the scene allowed Li to leave the bus alive" (ie: did not summarily execute him), that Canada should instate the death penalty for this one special incident... things like that. Clearly, these demands are insane. Even the loosest understanding of the incident should make it apparent that Li was probably suffering from a severe menal illness; rational, mentally stable people don't decapitate and canibalize strangers for no reason. Unsurprisingly, psychiatric evaluations of Li and an examination of his past revealed a severe case of schizophrenia. Li apparently believed that Mclean was trying to kill him. It was such a cut-and-dried case of NCR that the prosecution wasn't trying to convict him. This is to say how absurd it is to say he should be considered criminally responsible; I'm ignoring the highly unconstitutional other stuff. Today, he was found NCR. I'm not trying to condemn Mclean's family, who are understandibly distraught. But the huge number of people who seem to agree with them is frankly disturbing. Callers to CBC programs, editorials in ***ty newspapers, Facebook group after Facebook group... I cannot believe that so many Canadians are this small-minded and ignorant. Last edited by El Barto; 03-06-2009 at 12:26 AM.*

03-07-2009, 02:12 AM	#3
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,100 Thanks: 2,151 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	IT'S WRONG TO KILL SOMEONE NOW WE'RE GONNA KILL YOU BECAUSE YOU DID NO, IT'S OKAY FOR US TO DO IT, BECAUSE YOU DID IT FIRST </death sentence> Of course the criminally insane have no concept of "right" or "wrong" when it comes to things like violence and death. Society as a whole is bloodthirsty. We see violence as a means to an end, but only if it's government sanctioned. Like if enough people want to rape someone it somehow becomes acceptable. Don't you think that sends a message to other would-be killers? Kill someone and we'll kill you if we catch you? Do as I say and not as I do? If someone is so powerfully misanthropic, and they hate you despite never having met you, does that hatred justify killing you? So why does public hatred justify an execution? Last edited by Cosmonautical; 03-07-2009 at 02:18 AM.

03-06-2009, 12:16 AM	#2
Robotazy PRESS ANY KEY TO PANIC! Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: A Tiny Shed Gender: Posts: 16,483 Thanks: 529 Thanked 1,254 Times in 897 Posts Blog Entries: 46	People are stupid, you should know that. Also. A Life Sentence would solve everyone's problems. Or Mental Institution. For Life. I guess :/ Neither is fine.

03-07-2009, 02:46 AM	#4
t3hDarkness Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: I weep oily black tears of joy. Gender: Posts: 7,590 Thanks: 119 Thanked 418 Times in 306 Posts Blog Entries: 5	The people that call for his death are too disturbed by his act to think rationally and objectively. Making a special exception to the law in order to kill a crazy person is unjust. Laws having special exceptions in order to protect criminally insane may be unjust. There is really no point if he lives in a padded cell or is executed anymore. If he has too severe schizophrenia to be treated, then he is a danger to himself and others and would be better off euthanized. If he can be treated then he would most likely be driven to suicide or or other psychosis. That being said, I am not at all surprised something like this would be done by a Greyhound passenger.

03-07-2009, 02:55 AM	#5
Metal Man Fairy-Slaying Maniac Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: 1592 Miles Away From Here Gender: Posts: 18,062 Thanks: 148 Thanked 683 Times in 482 Posts	The irony is the people who want him killed are experiencing similarly violent impulses as he did, just on a slightly lower scale.

03-07-2009, 08:48 PM	#7
El Barto Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,721 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	^Heh. That's exactly what's going to end up happening. I suspect that it won't be a problem. The psychiatrists that have met with him since then have said that as long as he is supervised by mental health workers who can make sure that he takes his meds, he probably won't become violent.