New Philosophy: Color

ChuckleHuck · 03-16-2009, 06:11 PM

This sounds stupid, but I've wondered what other people's opinion on this is.

Say, the cones in your eyes are not in the same arangement as would be in everyone else's, and that you don't see the same color as everyone else. You still see color, just not the same color someone else sees.

I'll give an example:

Person A sees the color green as shown: ||||

But Person B sees the color green as shown: ||||

The same goes for smell; people enjoy or hate different smells in opinion, which basically controls their smell. The same perhaps goes with color perception. Opinion of color (mostly in girls; i.e. matching color with clothing, etc.) is the same depending on the person.

Another similarity is taste. People taste things differently by opinion.

Opinion normally displayed as someone's thoughts on something in this case is turned into their perception on something.

Taste, smell, and sight are also linked to the face of the human body, which all are in fact very close to one another.

Another is hearing, which goes a little differently. If you hear different things no one would be able communicate, but the way you learn to hear things are similar, which are linked to the way you learn to percieve color and sight.

The way you identify a color is key. That's the way you learned whichever color you see, along with the opinion of how dark or light an object appears.

Possible, but not probable.

Opinions are highly supported on this, either direction.

Mushi · 03-17-2009, 12:46 AM

Get out of my mind, Chucklehuck.

Seriously, I've been pondering such things for about two years now. You show a man the color green, ask him what color it is, he'll tell you it's green(if he's not clinically retarded). It doesn't matter how he sees it, he know's it's green because his whole life he was told it was green.

HOWEVER

I would like to think that there's at least a semblance of conformity in the senses, though differences in perception are fairly common. Take the chemical PTC, for example. To some people, it's something extremely bitter that you would never want to put in your mouth ever, while to others it has no real taste at all.

VARIATIONS.

Though some people see things differently, there's a general consensus on most colors. Otherwise, Christmas lights would look funky to everyone, and Santa would be brown, St. Patrick's day a day of blue pride, and the subjects of grassy green as opposed to emerald green would not be so hotly debated. ALSO, poisonous looking things would look inviting to some people. BRIGHT COLORS, DON'T EAT. "...But it's friggin brown. I wanna eat it."

Now get out of my head Chucklehuck I will not have you thinking my thoughts.

Metal Man · 03-17-2009, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MC Mushi Mo

"...But it's friggin brown. I wanna eat it."

This has been "MC Mushi Mo's dark secrets, Vol I."

t3hDarkness · 03-17-2009, 02:52 AM

I've been kicking around a theory as well about that.

Example, Red Violet at a distance: Some people will see Red, Some will see Blue, and some will tell you to stop asking stupid questions.

That's a mild version of your theory, but an easily examined example.

***Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds*** · 03-17-2009, 06:32 AM

I first considered this many many years ago, and I still think it's an interesting theory. Unfortunately, since then, I've become a lot more familiar with the fact that colours are actually just light. On that note, we could see different shades, depending on how well our eyes are working, but we would not see completely different colours. The light frequency wouldn't allow for it. *shrug* Colourblind people still "see" the same colours with their eyes, but their brain just doesn't process the information correctly.

***Cosmonautical*** · 03-17-2009, 06:35 AM

Feel free to continue once you've read and actually understood all of this:

Light - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are 3 possible ways for the human mind to physically misrepresent a color:

1. Color blind. You make no distinction between particular colors. It's a "bad" spot, essentially, in the spectrum.

2. Predisposition to viewing a specific color. Essentially, your eyes are more receptive to a specific color. This doesn't necessarily work as the mind itself will pick out minor differences in colors and actually "skew" things so there is a color correction.

3. Crossed wires. You see exact opposites. Red is Green, etc.

The thing about light and how your body processes it is that it isn't an abstract process like a thought. In the abstract, such as memory, people have a tendency to misplace color. If you are for instance remembering a blue bag that a friend had as a child being red, it is likely you for some reason made particular note of something else being red that day, and recalling the bag recalls the color red because there is a synapse linking the two memories. Light itself, however, is not something that is easily misperceived. It is something that exists in the physical world. You'd might as well suggest that being punched in the face to someone else is like a gentle massage of the lower neck to you.

heh · 03-17-2009, 08:26 AM

yeah i thought about this once too but it doesn't make sense after a little thought

**Deku Trii** · 03-17-2009, 09:31 AM

Seems like a thing a lot of people seem to think of at some point. I remember bringing it up to my little sister back in middle school and having her tell me she considered the same thing.

ChuckleHuck · 03-17-2009, 08:51 PM

Quote:

3. Crossed wires. You see exact opposites. Red is Green, etc.

This is the closest thing to my theory I've seen yet.

***Another thing to note***

Light as well as pigment; If you see diferent colors in light, you see different pigments.

Though, pigment is created by reflected light so that's a slight paradox, or loop-hole.

Look into a glass colored red and you see everything red. This would be a litteral color-blind simulation. But put up a glass of blue and things change in tone of light and dark.

Thus, I am back to the way you ***learn*** colors and etc.

***One more thing, before we get waaaay to far into this***

Spoiler Below

This is possibility and not probability unless we get into some deep proof; meaning this all has the potential to be complete bull shiz.

PK FIRE! · 03-17-2009, 10:19 PM

An intresting theory and unlike one I ran across awhile ago I find it intresting rather then aggrovating. I wonder if you really could teach some one to except that red-green and vice versa?

(The theory that annoyed me being the radical vareint of behavorisem meaning that everything about who you are isn't brought about by free will, rather it's mearly the way you were preprogramed to bebecause of genetic factors.)

- You stupid dog!

***Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds*** · 03-17-2009, 10:33 PM

^^ You're just changing what frequency of light is getting through to your eyes. Your brain will over-compensate after you've taken away the red glass, and make you think you're seeing everything with more blue tones than normal, etc.

Red/green colour-blindness works in a way that the brain can't differenciate between the colours when they are next to each other, while full colour-blindness means you see things in shades of grey, not all one colour or something.

***Cosmonautical*** · 03-17-2009, 10:58 PM

I don't think you're getting this. It is a physical sensation. The crossed wire is saying one color triggers another color because there is a flaw in that person's chiasm. In extreme cases of "bad wiring" a person is said to be Synesthetic. This means that one sense triggers an entirely different sense - you would be able to taste or feel sound as well as hearing it, etc.

Colorblindness is a good example of a very minor "crossed wiring". In a full out case, the person's brain is likely to effectively shut off the color processing portion of the brain, leading to total color blindness.

It is entirely likely that a "crossed wiring" scenario can never take place in a full-on color reversal, and that should it actually take place it would be easily detectable. Seizures brought on by flashing lights might be similar in result to total color-confusion.

Now, I'm not an optometrist. It's likely that because of the way the mind controls light signals that a confusion is entirely impossible.

Again, I stress that your sight is actually a sensation of the physical world. Light has weight.

Metal Man · 03-18-2009, 03:10 AM

Let's just put it this way: colors correspond specifically to wavelength. Try as you might, the only way to see different colors than another person is eye/nerve problems or filters.

Don't believe me?

Why does that camera see the same colors you do, then?

How do all monitors wind up showing the same colors, more or less?

If it was something we couldn't agree upon so readily, or which was variable (like, correct me if I'm wrong, scent or taste) then we wouldn't be able to make standards to reproduce the sensation across all kinds of devices. It would be out of our hands and we'd have to, like, depend on sound or monochrome only or something.

The place where the 'individual taste' comes in is more related to colors which have multiple, disputed names, and of course, personal feelings of what combination of color look best.

**Cravdraa** · 03-19-2009, 05:56 PM

actually, Color is just a preception of the light your brain puts together. It might be entire possible that different peoples brains process the colors differently, since the visual center of the brain is still developing well after birth. So let's say that the colors you see are different markers your brain creates to identify different wavelenths of light. The cones in your eyes send a signal to the brain, telling you that the color you're seeing is "blue". But what does your brain think blue looks like? The actual "color" that we see is simply a creation of the brain that allows us to tell the difference between different wavelengths of light. An illusion imbedded into how we preceive the world.

So in that case, it's not unthinkable that the brain of one person, through chance, genetics, or environment, might decide to use a different "marker" or "lable" for a certain wavelength of light than another person. And futher more, it might be possible or in fact, likely, that our brains use different sets of "markers" that contain "colors" that nobody else even has. It could be that not one color I see actually matches to any colors in the entire spectrum of perception that any of you see.

But then, probably not. Almost everything in the brain and body is set up a certain way, for a certain reason. There would certainly be advantages to having your brains preceptions labled a certain way. Colors opposite the spectrum from eachother still look opposite from eachother to different people, so there's clearly some sort of logic to the way the process works.

But it's interesting to think about.

Metal Man · 03-19-2009, 06:10 PM

Of course...

...Then culture overrides that later on in life by basically saying "You see this that way, right? Well, we call that blue."

So the person's definition is adapted to what they see... sort of nifty how that occurs.

ChuckleHuck · 03-19-2009, 06:48 PM

I said earlier the way we learn colors effects how we see them and how they're described. So in this statement; the very opinion of color is controlled by what each indivisual person knows already.

Example:

What's the color of calm?

Blue.

Why?

Because you relate it to the color of the sky.

***Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds*** · 03-19-2009, 07:14 PM

^ No, that's psychology. There is lots of research into how colour frequencies effect your mood, and why.

Besides, if someone dislikes the colour "yellow", they aren't going to consider it a "happy" colour, like like you are wrongfully taught (there's a reason certain deadly animals have both the colours red and yellow on their body- it's a warning, or alarm system to show you they're poisonous).

Bomby · 03-19-2009, 08:39 PM

I used to wonder that same thing when I was a young child. Then I forgot about it. Then I took science class.

***CaptHayfever*** · 03-19-2009, 09:20 PM

Speaking of perceived color & weird theories: According to a fable I wrote in 5th grade for homework, the sky is blue because a bear painted it upon commission by the rest of the world.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

CuccoLady · 03-20-2009, 12:08 AM

Considering how some animals see in the ultraviolet or infrared spectra, they see things in 'colors' that our brains cannot imagine because we can't percieve them.

In that sense, it's possible to think that what our brains pick up as the frequency of 'yellow' is displayed to us. In fact, what I see as green may be a color that does not even exist in someone else's visual color spectrum because he or she may see in a range of colors I can't begin to imagine.

03-16-2009, 06:11 PM	#1
ChuckleHuck Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: In the walls. Gender: Posts: 1,983 Thanks: 117 Thanked 64 Times in 46 Posts	New Philosophy: Color This sounds stupid, but I've wondered what other people's opinion on this is. Say, the cones in your eyes are not in the same arangement as would be in everyone else's, and that you don't see the same color as everyone else. You still see color, just not the same color someone else sees. I'll give an example: Person A sees the color green as shown: \|\|\|\| But Person B sees the color green as shown: \|\|\|\| The same goes for smell; people enjoy or hate different smells in opinion, which basically controls their smell. The same perhaps goes with color perception. Opinion of color (mostly in girls; i.e. matching color with clothing, etc.) is the same depending on the person. Another similarity is taste. People taste things differently by opinion. Opinion normally displayed as someone's thoughts on something in this case is turned into their perception on something. Taste, smell, and sight are also linked to the face of the human body, which all are in fact very close to one another. Another is hearing, which goes a little differently. If you hear different things no one would be able communicate, but the way you learn to hear things are similar, which are linked to the way you learn to percieve color and sight. The way you identify a color is key. That's the way you learned whichever color you see, along with the opinion of how dark or light an object appears. Possible, but not probable. Opinions are highly supported on this, either direction.

03-17-2009, 12:46 AM	#2
Mushi Derp Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Looking at you. I can read your mind. Gender: Posts: 6,982 Thanks: 179 Thanked 351 Times in 271 Posts	I Warn You, Possible Incoherence Ahead Get out of my mind, Chucklehuck. Seriously, I've been pondering such things for about two years now. You show a man the color green, ask him what color it is, he'll tell you it's green(if he's not clinically retarded). It doesn't matter how he sees it, he know's it's green because his whole life he was told it was green. HOWEVER I would like to think that there's at least a semblance of conformity in the senses, though differences in perception are fairly common. Take the chemical PTC, for example. To some people, it's something extremely bitter that you would never want to put in your mouth ever, while to others it has no real taste at all. VARIATIONS. Though some people see things differently, there's a general consensus on most colors. Otherwise, Christmas lights would look funky to everyone, and Santa would be brown, St. Patrick's day a day of blue pride, and the subjects of grassy green as opposed to emerald green would not be so hotly debated. ALSO, poisonous looking things would look inviting to some people. BRIGHT COLORS, DON'T EAT. "...But it's friggin brown. I wanna eat it." Now get out of my head Chucklehuck I will not have you thinking my thoughts. __________________

03-17-2009, 06:35 AM	#6
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,100 Thanks: 2,151 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	Feel free to continue once you've read and actually understood all of this: Light - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia There are 3 possible ways for the human mind to physically misrepresent a color: 1. Color blind. You make no distinction between particular colors. It's a "bad" spot, essentially, in the spectrum. 2. Predisposition to viewing a specific color. Essentially, your eyes are more receptive to a specific color. This doesn't necessarily work as the mind itself will pick out minor differences in colors and actually "skew" things so there is a color correction. 3. Crossed wires. You see exact opposites. Red is Green, etc. The thing about light and how your body processes it is that it isn't an abstract process like a thought. In the abstract, such as memory, people have a tendency to misplace color. If you are for instance remembering a blue bag that a friend had as a child being red, it is likely you for some reason made particular note of something else being red that day, and recalling the bag recalls the color red because there is a synapse linking the two memories. Light itself, however, is not something that is easily misperceived. It is something that exists in the physical world. You'd might as well suggest that being punched in the face to someone else is like a gentle massage of the lower neck to you. Last edited by Cosmonautical; 03-17-2009 at 06:46 AM.

03-17-2009, 02:52 AM	#4
t3hDarkness Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: I weep oily black tears of joy. Gender: Posts: 7,590 Thanks: 119 Thanked 418 Times in 306 Posts Blog Entries: 5	I've been kicking around a theory as well about that. Example, Red Violet at a distance: Some people will see Red, Some will see Blue, and some will tell you to stop asking stupid questions. That's a mild version of your theory, but an easily examined example.

03-17-2009, 06:32 AM	#5
*Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds* Admin "mine.. not yours. NO. MINE." Epic Ladynerd Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Forteresse de Valois Gender: Posts: 28,504 Thanks: 1,658 Thanked 1,820 Times in 1,042 Posts	I first considered this many many years ago, and I still think it's an interesting theory. Unfortunately, since then, I've become a lot more familiar with the fact that colours are actually just light. On that note, we could see different shades, depending on how well our eyes are working, but we would not see completely different colours. The light frequency wouldn't allow for it. shrug Colourblind people still "see" the same colours with their eyes, but their brain just doesn't process the information correctly.

03-17-2009, 08:26 AM	#7
heh Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: lo-ca-tion; Noun- 1. a place or situation occupied: That house is in a fine location Gender: Posts: 9,849 Thanks: 710 Thanked 955 Times in 628 Posts	yeah i thought about this once too but it doesn't make sense after a little thought

03-17-2009, 09:31 AM	#8
Deku Trii PP&R Mod Current Events Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Texas Gender: Posts: 9,031 Thanks: 521 Thanked 1,099 Times in 583 Posts	Seems like a thing a lot of people seem to think of at some point. I remember bringing it up to my little sister back in middle school and having her tell me she considered the same thing.

03-17-2009, 10:19 PM	#10
PK FIRE! Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: On the run. Gender: Posts: 9,544 Thanks: 175 Thanked 150 Times in 120 Posts	An intresting theory and unlike one I ran across awhile ago I find it intresting rather then aggrovating. I wonder if you really could teach some one to except that red-green and vice versa? (The theory that annoyed me being the radical vareint of behavorisem meaning that everything about who you are isn't brought about by free will, rather it's mearly the way you were preprogramed to bebecause of genetic factors.) - You stupid dog!

03-17-2009, 10:33 PM	#11
*Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds* Admin "mine.. not yours. NO. MINE." Epic Ladynerd Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Forteresse de Valois Gender: Posts: 28,504 Thanks: 1,658 Thanked 1,820 Times in 1,042 Posts	^^ You're just changing what frequency of light is getting through to your eyes. Your brain will over-compensate after you've taken away the red glass, and make you think you're seeing everything with more blue tones than normal, etc. Red/green colour-blindness works in a way that the brain can't differenciate between the colours when they are next to each other, while full colour-blindness means you see things in shades of grey, not all one colour or something.

03-17-2009, 10:58 PM	#12
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,100 Thanks: 2,151 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	I don't think you're getting this. It is a physical sensation. The crossed wire is saying one color triggers another color because there is a flaw in that person's chiasm. In extreme cases of "bad wiring" a person is said to be Synesthetic. This means that one sense triggers an entirely different sense - you would be able to taste or feel sound as well as hearing it, etc. Colorblindness is a good example of a very minor "crossed wiring". In a full out case, the person's brain is likely to effectively shut off the color processing portion of the brain, leading to total color blindness. It is entirely likely that a "crossed wiring" scenario can never take place in a full-on color reversal, and that should it actually take place it would be easily detectable. Seizures brought on by flashing lights might be similar in result to total color-confusion. Now, I'm not an optometrist. It's likely that because of the way the mind controls light signals that a confusion is entirely impossible. Again, I stress that your sight is actually a sensation of the physical world. Light has weight.

03-18-2009, 03:10 AM	#13
Metal Man Fairy-Slaying Maniac Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: 1592 Miles Away From Here Gender: Posts: 18,062 Thanks: 148 Thanked 683 Times in 482 Posts	Let's just put it this way: colors correspond specifically to wavelength. Try as you might, the only way to see different colors than another person is eye/nerve problems or filters. Don't believe me? Why does that camera see the same colors you do, then? How do all monitors wind up showing the same colors, more or less? If it was something we couldn't agree upon so readily, or which was variable (like, correct me if I'm wrong, scent or taste) then we wouldn't be able to make standards to reproduce the sensation across all kinds of devices. It would be out of our hands and we'd have to, like, depend on sound or monochrome only or something. The place where the 'individual taste' comes in is more related to colors which have multiple, disputed names, and of course, personal feelings of what combination of color look best.

03-19-2009, 05:56 PM	#14
Cravdraa VGF RPG Mod Join Date: May 2001 Location: It's Round on the sides and high in the middle. Gender: Posts: 8,470 Thanks: 171 Thanked 661 Times in 403 Posts	actually, Color is just a preception of the light your brain puts together. It might be entire possible that different peoples brains process the colors differently, since the visual center of the brain is still developing well after birth. So let's say that the colors you see are different markers your brain creates to identify different wavelenths of light. The cones in your eyes send a signal to the brain, telling you that the color you're seeing is "blue". But what does your brain think blue looks like? The actual "color" that we see is simply a creation of the brain that allows us to tell the difference between different wavelengths of light. An illusion imbedded into how we preceive the world. So in that case, it's not unthinkable that the brain of one person, through chance, genetics, or environment, might decide to use a different "marker" or "lable" for a certain wavelength of light than another person. And futher more, it might be possible or in fact, likely, that our brains use different sets of "markers" that contain "colors" that nobody else even has. It could be that not one color I see actually matches to any colors in the entire spectrum of perception that any of you see. But then, probably not. Almost everything in the brain and body is set up a certain way, for a certain reason. There would certainly be advantages to having your brains preceptions labled a certain way. Colors opposite the spectrum from eachother still look opposite from eachother to different people, so there's clearly some sort of logic to the way the process works. But it's interesting to think about.

03-19-2009, 06:10 PM	#15
Metal Man Fairy-Slaying Maniac Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: 1592 Miles Away From Here Gender: Posts: 18,062 Thanks: 148 Thanked 683 Times in 482 Posts	Of course... ...Then culture overrides that later on in life by basically saying "You see this that way, right? Well, we call that blue." So the person's definition is adapted to what they see... sort of nifty how that occurs.

03-19-2009, 06:48 PM	#16
ChuckleHuck Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: In the walls. Gender: Posts: 1,983 Thanks: 117 Thanked 64 Times in 46 Posts	I said earlier the way we learn colors effects how we see them and how they're described. So in this statement; the very opinion of color is controlled by what each indivisual person knows already. Example: What's the color of calm? Blue. Why? Because you relate it to the color of the sky.

03-19-2009, 07:14 PM	#17
*Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds* Admin "mine.. not yours. NO. MINE." Epic Ladynerd Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Forteresse de Valois Gender: Posts: 28,504 Thanks: 1,658 Thanked 1,820 Times in 1,042 Posts	^ No, that's psychology. There is lots of research into how colour frequencies effect your mood, and why. Besides, if someone dislikes the colour "yellow", they aren't going to consider it a "happy" colour, like like you are wrongfully taught (there's a reason certain deadly animals have both the colours red and yellow on their body- it's a warning, or alarm system to show you they're poisonous).

03-19-2009, 08:39 PM	#18
Bomby You just freaking blew Joe Biden's mind! Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: WHAT?house Gender: Posts: 19,491 Thanks: 513 Thanked 1,449 Times in 849 Posts Blog Entries: 5	I used to wonder that same thing when I was a young child. Then I forgot about it. Then I took science class.

03-19-2009, 09:20 PM	#19
*CaptHayfever* Smash SuperMod Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: (n) - the place where I am Gender: Posts: 27,661 Thanks: 1,991 Thanked 2,486 Times in 1,513 Posts	Speaking of perceived color & weird theories: According to a fable I wrote in 5th grade for homework, the sky is blue because a bear painted it upon commission by the rest of the world. And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

03-20-2009, 12:08 AM	#20
CuccoLady Anime and Cartoons Mod Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: THIS LOCATION REMINDS ME OF A PUZZLE, LUKE Gender: Posts: 9,077 Thanks: 2,825 Thanked 1,222 Times in 822 Posts	Considering how some animals see in the ultraviolet or infrared spectra, they see things in 'colors' that our brains cannot imagine because we can't percieve them. In that sense, it's possible to think that what our brains pick up as the frequency of 'yellow' is displayed to us. In fact, what I see as green may be a color that does not even exist in someone else's visual color spectrum because he or she may see in a range of colors I can't begin to imagine.