The proposed mosque near Ground Zero in NYC

[Valigarmander]

You've all probably heard about it by now, but for those of you who don't a private group has proposed an Islamic community center in NYC, not too distant from the site of the September 11 attacks. This has, predictably, caused quite a bit of controversy. I'm posting this thread just to see what some of the opinions of other VGF members are.

My thoughts: Despite the paranoia-inspiring name "Ground Zero Mosque", it's an Islamic community center (open to non-Muslims as well) with a theater, a performing arts center, a swimming pool, a fitness center, a basketball court, childcare area, a bookstore, a food court, and a prayer space on the second floor, and it's being built over an old Burlington Coat Factory building two blocks away from the WTC site. I can understand some of the trepidation here, and I think Soho Properties could've chosen a much less provocative location, though I don't think closing off the area to members of the second-largest religious group in the world based off the actions of extremists is the right way to go. I'm also fairly disgusted by the fear and xenophobia being stirred up in the media and by politicians. I think they have the right to build the community center there, and while I think they should've chosen a different site for the building, I wouldn't side with any of those most outspoken against its construction.

Vote and share your thoughts.

[Glux]

"I don't agree with the choice of location, but think they should still be allowed to build."

[Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds]

Everyone who thinks they have an opinion on this MUST READ:

"Hallowed Ground" | History Eraser Button








In other words, this is more media ********ery and the building should go ahead as planned.

[Glux]

^ I think it's more of the religious aspect of it, personally.

[Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds]

That's the ****tiest, worst, most ignorant excuse everyone uses about this issue, too. I hope I don't need to explain why it's the ****tiest, worst, most ignorant excuse.

[Crazyswordsman]

I believe in freedom of religion. Therefore I don't care.

That was the short version, and essentially is the extent of my opinion. What I AM worried about though is this (actually several things):

Directly related to this matter is the fact that people aren't just opposing this mosque. They're opposing mosques EVERYWHERE. There was a recant controversy about a mosque that was planned in Midland Beach, Staten Island. Local community groups had the mosque stopped and they claimed it was because they don't think Muslims should have the same rights as Christians (because of 9/11. You'd be surprised at how conservative Staten Islanders can get). Plus there's the issue of that Texas based group going into Connecticut and harassing children with chants of "Jesus hates Muslims" (first of all, Jesus never hated; he only loved. Second of all, Christianity, let alone Islam, were started after Jesus died, so how could he know about any of this?). They're also vandalizing mosques and mosque sites, and there's one church in Gainesville that's planning a Qu'ran burning on 9/11 (when will they learn that there were MUSLIMS that were victims on 9/11, and of course the terrorists' biggest victims are other Muslims anyway?) Of course, this is a small minority of really loud religious groups. Most religious groups, including most Christian churches and most Jewish groups, support the mosque, which somehow makes me believe that Islamophobia is far more dangerous than Islam.

Second of all, many of the same people opposing the mosque because it's "polluting holy ground" voted against benefits for 9/11 families. And still another, Bobby Jindal, passed a law ALLOWING LOADED GUNS IN PLACES OF WORSHIP, which is far more dangerous to this country than a harmless mosque (that effectively legalizes madrassas, something that the mosque certainly is not). -CSM

edit: reading Val's post, seeing that there's gonna be a basketball court there, most of the terrorists would define basketball as heresy anyway.

[Dizzy]

Originally Posted by Valigarmander

...with a theater, a performing arts center, a swimming pool, a fitness center, a basketball court, childcare area, a bookstore, a food court...

I say build it. That sounds awesome.

[Booyakasha]

I think most people are salt of the earth, whatever religion they practice (or don't). This is just ugly, xenophobic and mean-spirited.

[Robotazy]

Dude, I'd go there everyday, it sounds f**king awesome.

Also, It's not so much "hallowed ground" as it is "holy ground" if you catch my drift.

[Deku Trii]

This never should have been a big deal. **** the haters, this is America.

[Rainbow Dash]

if anything i'd be more worried about building there now simply because of how many people don't want it to exist and invariably someone is going to do something to it

[CaptHayfever]

Isn't there already a mosque in that same radius of the towers' site? If they don't demand that one be torn down, they have not just zero reasons, but NEGATIVE reasons to stop this one from going up.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

[Cosmonautical]

Originally Posted by Deku Trii

This never should have been a big deal. **** the haters, this is America.

Religious freedom is one of the truly important defining factors of the US, and one of the reasons why I still consider the root of the country to be noble.

Frankly, it's just a ****ing building. It's not like there won't be Muslims all of the sudden because they didn't build it.

[Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds]

If you guys are willing, I would strongly recommend getting every person you know to read both the following links:

Muslim Victims of Terrorist Attack, September 11, 2001

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/14/ny...sque.html?_r=1

Maybe a bit of perspective can spread around and the excuses that people use to justify their bigotry and vilification of Muslims in the US will start sounding shallow even to their ears.

[Vgfian]

@SD

That's the ****tiest, worst, most ignorant excuse everyone uses about this issue, too. I hope I don't need to explain why it's the ****tiest, worst, most ignorant excuse.

You need Chill Pill. Srsly.


---

I don't care about it being built, this is America after all, but I have to say I don't think it should be built so close to that area.

Personally, I would much prefer a 9/11 memorial go up. But as far as I know, there is nothing, even though it is the defining moment of modern history in the US.

Also because it worries me that the guy behind it is not willing to call Hamas a terrorist group.

As well as condemning the 9/11 attacks as non-Islamist, and even is more willing to blame the US itself rather than any of the actual terrorists involved.

Not even mentioning the fact there are several mosques already built in New York, though I suppose that's not a real reason, I mean after all, I'm pretty sure all of Mississippi has more churches per square yard than any other state. :/
[EDIT: This is not a part of my reasoning, if it were do you seriously think I would thwart it on my own?]

I find it funny that even some Muslims are against it being built there for a similar reason to one of my own. [EDIT: Granted, I said that some Muslims are against it for similar reasons to my own, but I never specifically gave my reasoning.]

And also, it's original name was "Cordoba House" which some think could be a reference to, " the Islamic conquest of the Christian city of Córdoba", but it is debated. [EDIT:Not part of my reasoning yet, just a fun fact 4->N.]

Some opponents also criticized its original name, Cordoba, alleging it to be a reference to the Islamic conquest of the Christian city of Córdoba; the project's sponsors explained that the name was meant to invoke 8th–11th century Córdoba, which they call a model of peaceful coexistence between Muslims, Christians, and Jews.

Anyway, here's a wikipedia page of the guy behind it.

Feisal Abdul Rauf - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and a page for it itself...

Park51 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Anyway, I find this subject rather fascinating, I plan to do a little research now.

---
I didn't even mention how insulting this probably is to the family members of the people who died, and to the survivors. I guess that goes without saying though. :/ [EDIT : This is a thought, I in no way claim to represent ANYONE in this section, and anyone who argues against this either misread, or is deliberately attempting to turn my posts into balloon animals. I merely thought that it might be insulting to the families, and felt a need to post this. That's all. ]


Also, here is an article for reading because that's what this kind of article is for....
Imam's globe-hopping on taxpayer dime 'unconscionable'


Another thing, am I the only one who thinks that the third result should be edited, because it means pretty much the same thing as the second poll choice when read a certain way?

[I am nobody]

Originally Posted by Vgfian

and even is more willing to blame the US itself rather than any of the actual terrorists involved.

"I wouldn’t say that the United States deserved what happened. But the United States’ policies were an accessory to the crime that happened."

Training bin Laden as a member of the Mujaheddin undeniably makes us an accessory to the crime. Saying that we were an accessory is not the same as blaming us over the terrorists or attempting to justify them. (both of which are obviously impossible to do)

I'd also like to point out that Glen Beck made an almost identical statement (seriously, it's almost word for word) during one of his "school" session things. The coverage of Rauf's statement has been laughably hypocritical.


That's all I'm going to say about this. While some people may have (understandable) emotional reasons for not wanting the "mosque" to be built, there are no legal reasons why it should not be, and ultimately that is what decides the buildings fate.

[Booyakasha]

Really, really good article about this over at Cracked.com today.

[Random User]

Originally Posted by CaptHayfever

Isn't there already a mosque in that same radius of the towers' site? If they don't demand that one be torn down, they have not just zero reasons, but NEGATIVE reasons to stop this one from going up.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

There is indeed a mosque already built in the vicinity, it is actually closer to Ground Zero than the one being built.

I think the arguement is just plain ignorant. Of course the mosque should be allowed.

[Metal Man]

VGFian: The Republican Talking Points Echophone.

[Cosmonautical]

Originally Posted by Glutexo

^ I think it's more of the religious aspect of it, personally.

Defending other religions makes certain that you have the freedom to practice your own. Look at the big picture.