Senate Blocks Don't-Ask-Don't-Tell Repeal

***CaptHayfever*** · 09-22-2010, 09:50 PM

BBC News - US Senate blocks debate on gay military policy repeal

Four votes short.
Could somebody remind me (A) why this needs a 60% vote when almost everything in Congress is either simple majority or 2/3 majority, and (B) why military policy has to go through Congress at all since the entire armed forces is under the sole command of the executive branch?

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

**Crazyswordsman** · 09-22-2010, 10:10 PM

Some Republicans even need to vet their aides/interns.

Also, McCain is one of DADT's biggest fans, and denies that the military secretly searches for proof that people are gay. -CSM

**Valigarmander** · 09-22-2010, 10:11 PM

Now I remember why I was depressed earlier.

***CaptHayfever*** · 09-22-2010, 10:29 PM

^^One of the comments under the article is from a US serviceman who claims that if the higher-ups do find out somebody's gay, they don't really care unless the person does something else that would merit discharge; then they bring it up to expediate the process.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

***Cosmonautical*** · 09-23-2010, 01:44 AM

That's not really accurate. It's more like they won't use it unless they don't like you already, and will nail you on it if they actually lack other charges but want to get rid of you. Same thing as cops pulling people over and using stuff like signaling as an excuse, when they wanted to search your car.

This would require the Congressional repeal, Capt, I assume because it is to contradict policy in action in the Executive branch which may have passed through Congress before. I think the 60% thing is specifically just bad math/journalism, and it's actually meant to be 2/3rds (about 66%).

Bomby · 09-23-2010, 01:55 AM

I believe that this was riding on a military spending bill. Might've passed otherwise.

Metal Man · 09-23-2010, 03:45 AM

Gay people cause guns to misfire, but only when they are outed!

Or at least, that's what loopy logic DADT seems to operate on.

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! · 09-23-2010, 05:19 PM

Is this "Don't Ask Don't Tell" as simple as the name implies? If so, I don't see a problem with it because I don't think that they should waste their time searching for homosexuals to kick them out or something, but I don't think that they should be allowed to be openly gay either.

***CaptHayfever*** · 09-24-2010, 12:52 AM

^It's not as simple as the name implies. If soldiers are provably outed for any reason, even against their wills, they can be discharged for it.

Resisting asking the obvious follow-up question to avoid the obvious flame war that would ensue.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

***Cosmonautical*** · 09-24-2010, 01:59 AM

at least irhp is predictable

Metal Man · 09-24-2010, 02:02 AM

We're missing Metal Mario though.

Then I could argue with him as I usually do, at which point the implied sarcasm and biting comments would cause the internet itself to melt.

Just kidding.

Kil'jaeden · 09-24-2010, 01:11 PM

I guess the Us military has never heard of the Spartans, or the Sacred Band of Thebes.

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! · 11-20-2010, 12:20 AM

^ I think the US Military has heard of them, and maybe that's one reason they didn't let gays in. I just wonder if you heard that the Spartans were homosexual pedophiles.

Is that predictable enough?

Sorry for the bump, had to throw this out here.

***Booyakasha*** · 11-20-2010, 01:14 AM

I think excluding gays is arbitrary and pointless. Granted, I'm no soldier, but I can't for the life of me see the relevance of sexuality in this context.

Vgfian · 11-20-2010, 07:11 AM

Based on the concepts of DADT that I know about:

I can't help but think it's more or less a way to prevent some sort of attacks on homosexuals.

I mean think about it. Two guys who think all gays should die try and beat a guy to death because he's gay. By the end of it, the man is in the hospital or dead, and the two who attacked him are discharged and arrested. The army loses 3 soldiers because someone was open about their sexuality. So it'd be better to just not ask and not tell whether you're homo or hetero, and allow people to keep their assumptions and judgements to themselves. Just my thoughts. :/

(I haven't studied DADT, and as I said, only know a few basic concepts of it, this is just my idea based on those concepts. You're welcome to criticize this if you so wish.)

As far as kicking people out of the army for being gay, see above, and also, I have no clue what the numbers are so I can't say anything else. :/

Some people give statistics, others give other statistics, most of it is cloudy, and alot of it is smothered in and oozing with personal bias.

Zaden · 11-21-2010, 12:12 AM

Easy solution: All USAF members are required to be asexual. All male USAF members who cannot give proof of their asexuality will be suddenly, violently castrated. All female members will be... uh......... NEVER MIND.

**Crazyswordsman** · 11-21-2010, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaidon

Easy solution: All USAF members are required to be asexual. All male USAF members who cannot give proof of their asexuality will be suddenly, violently castrated. All female members will be... uh......... NEVER MIND.

"This is Bob Barker reminding you to help control your army in the barracks; have your army spayed or neutered!" -CSM

Kil'jaeden · 11-25-2010, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I REALLY HATE POKEMON!

^ I think the US Military has heard of them, and maybe that's one reason they didn't let gays in. I just wonder if you heard that the Spartans were homosexual pedophiles.

Is that predictable enough?

Sorry for the bump, had to throw this out here.

No, it proves large groups of homosexuals make better soldiers. I mean, if we had some sort of gay gun that made people gay, we could use it on the army. Within a few weeks, they'd be unstoppable killing machines and probably throw babies off cliffs.

Metal Man · 11-26-2010, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Vgfiandmaster

I can't help but think it's more or less a way to prevent some sort of attacks on homosexuals.

Too bad it's often used to attack homosexuals.

Since only outed ones are kicked out, people who know their orientation will often extort sexual favors or worse out of said people, with the threat of outing them and ruining their job being used to control them.

Thus, DADT exists primarily to cause problems where none exist.

***Cosmonautical*** · 11-26-2010, 08:32 AM

Yeah, sorry guild, that doesn't make any sense. The military shouldn't be so ****ed up that people are killing gays just for being gay. I can't imagine the kind of warped scenario it takes to produce the logic that "regular sane people who should be employed by the military go ape**** every time they hear about a homosexual, and jump on the murderin' train so lets hide all the gays from them lololol"

That's identical to the logic that women should wear burqas so all the decent men aren't tempted to rape them.

09-22-2010, 09:50 PM	#1
*CaptHayfever* Smash SuperMod Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: (n) - the place where I am Gender: Posts: 27,661 Thanks: 1,991 Thanked 2,486 Times in 1,513 Posts	Senate Blocks Don't-Ask-Don't-Tell Repeal BBC News - US Senate blocks debate on gay military policy repeal Four votes short. Could somebody remind me (A) why this needs a 60% vote when almost everything in Congress is either simple majority or 2/3 majority, and (B) why military policy has to go through Congress at all since the entire armed forces is under the sole command of the executive branch? And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

09-23-2010, 01:44 AM	#5
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,100 Thanks: 2,151 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	That's not really accurate. It's more like they won't use it unless they don't like you already, and will nail you on it if they actually lack other charges but want to get rid of you. Same thing as cops pulling people over and using stuff like signaling as an excuse, when they wanted to search your car. This would require the Congressional repeal, Capt, I assume because it is to contradict policy in action in the Executive branch which may have passed through Congress before. I think the 60% thing is specifically just bad math/journalism, and it's actually meant to be 2/3rds (about 66%). Last edited by Cosmonautical; 09-23-2010 at 01:50 AM.

11-20-2010, 12:20 AM	#13
I REALLY HATE POKEMON! Goku lives on the Sun Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: California, U.S.A Gender: Posts: 12,717 Thanks: 1,334 Thanked 275 Times in 234 Posts Blog Entries: 1	^ I think the US Military has heard of them, and maybe that's one reason they didn't let gays in. I just wonder if you heard that the Spartans were homosexual pedophiles. Is that predictable enough? Sorry for the bump, had to throw this out here. Last edited by I REALLY HATE POKEMON!; 11-21-2010 at 05:11 PM. Reason: The emoticon makes it sound less agressive. :)

09-22-2010, 10:10 PM	#2
Crazyswordsman This key doesn't work. Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Booyaville (yeah!) Gender: Posts: 10,791 Thanks: 1,019 Thanked 686 Times in 467 Posts	Some Republicans even need to vet their aides/interns. Also, McCain is one of DADT's biggest fans, and denies that the military secretly searches for proof that people are gay. -CSM

09-22-2010, 10:11 PM	#3
Valigarmander The Bee's Knees Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The land of rain and trees (Oregon) Gender: Posts: 29,755 Thanks: 1,649 Thanked 5,700 Times in 2,580 Posts Blog Entries: 20	Now I remember why I was depressed earlier.

09-22-2010, 10:29 PM	#4
*CaptHayfever* Smash SuperMod Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: (n) - the place where I am Gender: Posts: 27,661 Thanks: 1,991 Thanked 2,486 Times in 1,513 Posts	^^One of the comments under the article is from a US serviceman who claims that if the higher-ups do find out somebody's gay, they don't really care unless the person does something else that would merit discharge; then they bring it up to expediate the process. And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

09-23-2010, 01:55 AM	#6
Bomby You just freaking blew Joe Biden's mind! Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: WHAT?house Gender: Posts: 19,491 Thanks: 513 Thanked 1,449 Times in 849 Posts Blog Entries: 5	I believe that this was riding on a military spending bill. Might've passed otherwise.

09-23-2010, 03:45 AM	#7
Metal Man Fairy-Slaying Maniac Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: 1592 Miles Away From Here Gender: Posts: 18,062 Thanks: 148 Thanked 683 Times in 482 Posts	Gay people cause guns to misfire, but only when they are outed! Or at least, that's what loopy logic DADT seems to operate on.

09-23-2010, 05:19 PM	#8
I REALLY HATE POKEMON! Goku lives on the Sun Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: California, U.S.A Gender: Posts: 12,717 Thanks: 1,334 Thanked 275 Times in 234 Posts Blog Entries: 1	Is this "Don't Ask Don't Tell" as simple as the name implies? If so, I don't see a problem with it because I don't think that they should waste their time searching for homosexuals to kick them out or something, but I don't think that they should be allowed to be openly gay either.

09-24-2010, 12:52 AM	#9
*CaptHayfever* Smash SuperMod Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: (n) - the place where I am Gender: Posts: 27,661 Thanks: 1,991 Thanked 2,486 Times in 1,513 Posts	^It's not as simple as the name implies. If soldiers are provably outed for any reason, even against their wills, they can be discharged for it. Resisting asking the obvious follow-up question to avoid the obvious flame war that would ensue. And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

09-24-2010, 01:59 AM	#10
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,100 Thanks: 2,151 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	at least irhp is predictable

09-24-2010, 02:02 AM	#11
Metal Man Fairy-Slaying Maniac Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: 1592 Miles Away From Here Gender: Posts: 18,062 Thanks: 148 Thanked 683 Times in 482 Posts	We're missing Metal Mario though. Then I could argue with him as I usually do, at which point the implied sarcasm and biting comments would cause the internet itself to melt. Just kidding.

09-24-2010, 01:11 PM	#12
Kil'jaeden Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: in your mind Gender: Posts: 2,132 Thanks: 21 Thanked 146 Times in 99 Posts	I guess the Us military has never heard of the Spartans, or the Sacred Band of Thebes.

11-20-2010, 01:14 AM	#14
*Booyakasha* SuperMod of War Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Wisconsinland Gender: Posts: 9,945 Thanks: 157 Thanked 1,481 Times in 763 Posts	I think excluding gays is arbitrary and pointless. Granted, I'm no soldier, but I can't for the life of me see the relevance of sexuality in this context.

11-20-2010, 07:11 AM	#15
Vgfian Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Listening to Seeking 7 Seven and giving out free hugs. :) Gender: Posts: 6,862 Thanks: 2,433 Thanked 398 Times in 311 Posts	Based on the concepts of DADT that I know about: I can't help but think it's more or less a way to prevent some sort of attacks on homosexuals. I mean think about it. Two guys who think all gays should die try and beat a guy to death because he's gay. By the end of it, the man is in the hospital or dead, and the two who attacked him are discharged and arrested. The army loses 3 soldiers because someone was open about their sexuality. So it'd be better to just not ask and not tell whether you're homo or hetero, and allow people to keep their assumptions and judgements to themselves. Just my thoughts. :/ (I haven't studied DADT, and as I said, only know a few basic concepts of it, this is just my idea based on those concepts. You're welcome to criticize this if you so wish.) As far as kicking people out of the army for being gay, see above, and also, I have no clue what the numbers are so I can't say anything else. :/ Some people give statistics, others give other statistics, most of it is cloudy, and alot of it is smothered in and oozing with personal bias.

11-21-2010, 12:12 AM	#16
Zaden Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: in the beak of a mighty condor Gender: Posts: 991 Thanks: 273 Thanked 88 Times in 51 Posts Blog Entries: 5	Easy solution: All USAF members are required to be asexual. All male USAF members who cannot give proof of their asexuality will be suddenly, violently castrated. All female members will be... uh......... NEVER MIND.

11-26-2010, 08:32 AM	#20
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,100 Thanks: 2,151 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	Yeah, sorry guild, that doesn't make any sense. The military shouldn't be so **ed up that people are killing gays just for being gay. I can't imagine the kind of warped scenario it takes to produce the logic that "regular sane people who should be employed by the military go ape** every time they hear about a homosexual, and jump on the murderin' train so lets hide all the gays from them lololol" That's identical to the logic that women should wear burqas so all the decent men aren't tempted to rape them.