Kim Jong Il is dead.

**Crazyswordsman** · 12-19-2011, 08:10 PM

Or as I liked to call him "King John II." Because he essentially is an absolute monarch, taking power from his father and giving it to his son. I really hope North Koreans will wake up and stop worshiping their politicians over their families. -CSM

**Loot** · 12-19-2011, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazyswordsman

I really hope North Koreans will wake up and stop worshiping their politicians over their families. -CSM

What the **** is wrong with you

***Cosmonautical*** · 12-19-2011, 09:38 PM

CSM, do you know any North Koreans? That's a pretty broad statement. China has had a huge influx of escaped Koreans, in recent times. That doesn't sound much like the Kim Jong leadership is very popular.

Loot, I expect better self-restraint from the mods here. I can sympathize with your amazement at CSM's continued assumptive generalization of broad swaths of people, but that's not helping.

Bomby · 12-20-2011, 01:35 AM

North Koreans exist in a state of perpetual malnourishment and repression. Had they the tools and ability to organize in secrecy, the government would have collapsed a very long time ago.

Also, for anyone about to pop open a champagne bottle over the man's death, keep in mind that his inexperienced son will be taking over. The death of one figurehead will not cause the fall of the government... unless it's the Qin dynasty, I guess. Things might actually end up getting worse on the Korean peninsula with Kim Jong-Il's passing.

(Also, I never find it appropriate to celebrate anyone's death, even someone as selfish, hypocritical, and malicious as Kim)

**LASER BEAR ASSAULT UNIT** · 12-20-2011, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazyswordsman

I really hope North Koreans will wake up and stop worshiping their politicians over their families. -CSM

that's one of the stupidest statements i've ever read

***Booyakasha*** · 12-20-2011, 06:42 AM

A touching, heartfelt tribute.

**Crazyswordsman** · 12-20-2011, 07:02 AM

Most North Koreans don't worship their politicians, but most North Koreans are also starving to death and are completely powerless to fight back. Those who escape are very lucky because it is very difficult to cross the border through China, and China sends you back to the North rather than holding you for illegal immigration and allowing you to go to the South like most countries do.

I'm sorry if I sounded too general. I was talking mostly about the elites when I said that. But North Korea is so secretive that it's hard to determine public opinion in the country. -CSM

User Name · 12-20-2011, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bomby

(Also, I never find it appropriate to celebrate anyone's death, even someone as selfish, hypocritical, and malicious as Kim)

This. A human's a human no matter how awful.

Panfan · 12-20-2011, 02:30 PM

BUT WHAT WILL BECOME OF MY FAVORITE BLOG

***Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds*** · 12-20-2011, 04:49 PM

Keep in mind that things like their "scenes of mourning" are just the culturally appropriate way to behave regarding death. That's not necessarily a representation of their personal feelings, it's just the right way to act.

**Crazyswordsman** · 12-20-2011, 05:54 PM

Again, I should have clarified. I just wish the North Koreans who oppose the Kim monarchy would actually try and do something about it, and I think there is a little confusion in the country and this is the opportunity to take advantage of it before Kim Jong-un asserts absolute power. -CSM

Bomby · 12-20-2011, 06:34 PM

China has officially endorsed and recognized Kim Jong-un as North Korea's new head of state. Obviously, I'd like to see a complete reform in the North Korean government as much as anyone, if not more so due to my cultural interest in that particular area of the world. How it could ever possibly happen and not cause a major conflict for all of East Asia (not to mention the US), however, is a much more difficult process to imagine.

Perhaps because of my recent fascination with President Nixon, I keep thinking of the diplomatic opening of China in the 1970's. Of course, while the PRC is far from being one of the best places to live on earth, things have slowly been getting better over the past 35-40 years. Urban day-to-day life in China, according to my Chinese friends at least, is apparently not so bad, though I'm pretty sure most of them would be in the upper class society of China.

This would be the most realistic route for North Korea to take. At this point, a power struggle is almost assured to take place. The best possible outcome would be that whoever ends up in control would be a similar figure to Deng Xiaoping, who would be more willing to cooperate with the outside world. I would hope that someone in the government would realize that they're failing as a nation and look to him as an example. The question is whether or not the US or South Korea has anyone in government right now with the excellent diplomatic skills that Nixon had.

Kil'jaeden · 12-20-2011, 07:22 PM

If not Kim Jong-un, then it will just be someone else from the ruling military establishment. That's the only thing that matters in North Korea. Maybe their next Dear Leader will at least be sane. But not this son of Kim Jong Il. He's been part of a royal family, groomed for power. He willl likely be crazier than his father, since this sort of thing gets worse down the line.

**Crazyswordsman** · 12-20-2011, 08:30 PM

^Kim Jong-Il was actually said to be FAR worse than Kim Il-Sung, if you can believe it. I agree with Bomby that a Deng Xiaoping would be good for North Korea. Certainly not the best thing in the world, but for them it's a step in the right direction. It would make North Korea fall out of the seven worst countries in the world (this list also includes Burma, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Sudan, Equatorial Guinea, and Somalia). -CSM

Kil'jaeden · 12-20-2011, 09:34 PM

If you look at it like a dynasty, dynasties tend to follow a pattern.

The Founder. Usually self made, since they had to start the dynasty ,and struggle and force would have been necessary. Charisma, ruthlessness, and a measure of good sense are usual qualities. Often lapses into paranoia when in control, because they see things in terms of enemies and possible enemies. Will set the standard for future rulers.

The Heir. The big difference is that they were given their power, they did not have to take it. Generally will continue policies of the former ruler, but will also tend to let others run things and become more decadent.

Third in Line. Will usually be bland. More decadence and at this point dynastic family disputes will come up if they have not already.

Continue down the generations, usually things will get a bit worse, and then you get

The Reformer. Will attempt to rectify the mistakes of the previous rulers. It may lead to a revival, but if it is too late their heir will be the one to pay for the problems with the end of the dynasty. If it leads to a revival, repeat the above.

***Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds*** · 01-17-2012, 01:37 AM

Daily NK - Harsh Punishments for Poor Mourning

12-19-2011, 08:10 PM	#1
Crazyswordsman This key doesn't work. Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Booyaville (yeah!) Gender: Posts: 10,791 Thanks: 1,019 Thanked 686 Times in 467 Posts	Kim Jong Il is dead. Or as I liked to call him "King John II." Because he essentially is an absolute monarch, taking power from his father and giving it to his son. I really hope North Koreans will wake up and stop worshiping their politicians over their families. -CSM

12-19-2011, 09:38 PM	#3
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,100 Thanks: 2,151 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	CSM, do you know any North Koreans? That's a pretty broad statement. China has had a huge influx of escaped Koreans, in recent times. That doesn't sound much like the Kim Jong leadership is very popular. Loot, I expect better self-restraint from the mods here. I can sympathize with your amazement at CSM's continued assumptive generalization of broad swaths of people, but that's not helping.

12-20-2011, 01:35 AM	#4
Bomby You just freaking blew Joe Biden's mind! Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: WHAT?house Gender: Posts: 19,491 Thanks: 513 Thanked 1,449 Times in 849 Posts Blog Entries: 5	North Koreans exist in a state of perpetual malnourishment and repression. Had they the tools and ability to organize in secrecy, the government would have collapsed a very long time ago. Also, for anyone about to pop open a champagne bottle over the man's death, keep in mind that his inexperienced son will be taking over. The death of one figurehead will not cause the fall of the government... unless it's the Qin dynasty, I guess. Things might actually end up getting worse on the Korean peninsula with Kim Jong-Il's passing. (Also, I never find it appropriate to celebrate anyone's death, even someone as selfish, hypocritical, and malicious as Kim)

12-20-2011, 06:42 AM	#6
*Booyakasha* SuperMod of War Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Wisconsinland Gender: Posts: 9,945 Thanks: 157 Thanked 1,481 Times in 763 Posts	A touching, heartfelt tribute.

12-20-2011, 07:02 AM	#7
Crazyswordsman This key doesn't work. Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Booyaville (yeah!) Gender: Posts: 10,791 Thanks: 1,019 Thanked 686 Times in 467 Posts	Most North Koreans don't worship their politicians, but most North Koreans are also starving to death and are completely powerless to fight back. Those who escape are very lucky because it is very difficult to cross the border through China, and China sends you back to the North rather than holding you for illegal immigration and allowing you to go to the South like most countries do. I'm sorry if I sounded too general. I was talking mostly about the elites when I said that. But North Korea is so secretive that it's hard to determine public opinion in the country. -CSM

12-20-2011, 02:30 PM	#9
Panfan AND HE PRAYS Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Grayskull Gender: Posts: 18,806 Thanks: 1,405 Thanked 2,250 Times in 1,338 Posts Blog Entries: 15	BUT WHAT WILL BECOME OF MY FAVORITE BLOG

12-20-2011, 04:49 PM	#10
*Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds* Admin "mine.. not yours. NO. MINE." Epic Ladynerd Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Forteresse de Valois Gender: Posts: 28,504 Thanks: 1,658 Thanked 1,820 Times in 1,042 Posts	Keep in mind that things like their "scenes of mourning" are just the culturally appropriate way to behave regarding death. That's not necessarily a representation of their personal feelings, it's just the right way to act.

12-20-2011, 05:54 PM	#11
Crazyswordsman This key doesn't work. Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Booyaville (yeah!) Gender: Posts: 10,791 Thanks: 1,019 Thanked 686 Times in 467 Posts	Again, I should have clarified. I just wish the North Koreans who oppose the Kim monarchy would actually try and do something about it, and I think there is a little confusion in the country and this is the opportunity to take advantage of it before Kim Jong-un asserts absolute power. -CSM

12-20-2011, 06:34 PM	#12
Bomby You just freaking blew Joe Biden's mind! Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: WHAT?house Gender: Posts: 19,491 Thanks: 513 Thanked 1,449 Times in 849 Posts Blog Entries: 5	China has officially endorsed and recognized Kim Jong-un as North Korea's new head of state. Obviously, I'd like to see a complete reform in the North Korean government as much as anyone, if not more so due to my cultural interest in that particular area of the world. How it could ever possibly happen and not cause a major conflict for all of East Asia (not to mention the US), however, is a much more difficult process to imagine. Perhaps because of my recent fascination with President Nixon, I keep thinking of the diplomatic opening of China in the 1970's. Of course, while the PRC is far from being one of the best places to live on earth, things have slowly been getting better over the past 35-40 years. Urban day-to-day life in China, according to my Chinese friends at least, is apparently not so bad, though I'm pretty sure most of them would be in the upper class society of China. This would be the most realistic route for North Korea to take. At this point, a power struggle is almost assured to take place. The best possible outcome would be that whoever ends up in control would be a similar figure to Deng Xiaoping, who would be more willing to cooperate with the outside world. I would hope that someone in the government would realize that they're failing as a nation and look to him as an example. The question is whether or not the US or South Korea has anyone in government right now with the excellent diplomatic skills that Nixon had.

12-20-2011, 07:22 PM	#13
Kil'jaeden Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: in your mind Gender: Posts: 2,132 Thanks: 21 Thanked 146 Times in 99 Posts	If not Kim Jong-un, then it will just be someone else from the ruling military establishment. That's the only thing that matters in North Korea. Maybe their next Dear Leader will at least be sane. But not this son of Kim Jong Il. He's been part of a royal family, groomed for power. He willl likely be crazier than his father, since this sort of thing gets worse down the line.

12-20-2011, 08:30 PM	#14
Crazyswordsman This key doesn't work. Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Booyaville (yeah!) Gender: Posts: 10,791 Thanks: 1,019 Thanked 686 Times in 467 Posts	^Kim Jong-Il was actually said to be FAR worse than Kim Il-Sung, if you can believe it. I agree with Bomby that a Deng Xiaoping would be good for North Korea. Certainly not the best thing in the world, but for them it's a step in the right direction. It would make North Korea fall out of the seven worst countries in the world (this list also includes Burma, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Sudan, Equatorial Guinea, and Somalia). -CSM

12-20-2011, 09:34 PM	#15
Kil'jaeden Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: in your mind Gender: Posts: 2,132 Thanks: 21 Thanked 146 Times in 99 Posts	If you look at it like a dynasty, dynasties tend to follow a pattern. The Founder. Usually self made, since they had to start the dynasty ,and struggle and force would have been necessary. Charisma, ruthlessness, and a measure of good sense are usual qualities. Often lapses into paranoia when in control, because they see things in terms of enemies and possible enemies. Will set the standard for future rulers. The Heir. The big difference is that they were given their power, they did not have to take it. Generally will continue policies of the former ruler, but will also tend to let others run things and become more decadent. Third in Line. Will usually be bland. More decadence and at this point dynastic family disputes will come up if they have not already. Continue down the generations, usually things will get a bit worse, and then you get The Reformer. Will attempt to rectify the mistakes of the previous rulers. It may lead to a revival, but if it is too late their heir will be the one to pay for the problems with the end of the dynasty. If it leads to a revival, repeat the above.

01-17-2012, 01:37 AM	#16
*Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds* Admin "mine.. not yours. NO. MINE." Epic Ladynerd Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Forteresse de Valois Gender: Posts: 28,504 Thanks: 1,658 Thanked 1,820 Times in 1,042 Posts	Daily NK - Harsh Punishments for Poor Mourning