Most complex storyline

DRW · 03-19-2009, 10:59 AM

What would you say: Which games for a) the NES and b) classic black & white Game Boy have the most complex in-game storyline (i.e. the things that actually happen while playing, not the mere text of the manual or the introduction screen)?

***Marilink*** · 03-19-2009, 02:24 PM

I'd think Ninja Gaiden would have to be up there...

**X-3** · 03-19-2009, 02:34 PM

MegaMan 6. oh, that mysterious Mr. X!

Final Fantasy was somewhat funky with it's ending, in my opinion.

Dizzy · 03-19-2009, 03:22 PM

NES) Tie between Mega Man 4 and Maniac Mansion.
GB) Evil Dead 2.

DRW · 03-19-2009, 03:35 PM

"Ninja Gaiden" might be a candidate. "Maniac Mansion" too. But "Mega Man 6"? Are you serious? Wasn't that just: "O.k., I'm Mr. X and the true genius. Beat my eight robot masters." Then in the end: "Hey, really I'm Dr. Wily. O.k., now you defeated me again and I'll go to prison." Not very complex to my opinion. Same goes for "Mega Man 4". What's complex there?

I think the most complex story in an old school videogame is the one in "Mystic Quest"/"Final Fantasy Adventure". While the story in other games is very basic, even in games that, game-wise, have a similar complexity (in "Zelda" you are supposed to find the eight Triforce parts and when you did it, you enter the final dungeon. Even in "Final Fantasy" it's just about collecting all the orbs, as far as I know), the story in that game is unmatched. You never know what happens next. It's not just a far away aim that you have to reach where you always see how far you have come, no, it's a plot that could be made into a movie 1:1. And the plot plays into the direct gameplay. The plot elements are not just mere cutscenes, but in-game situations so to say. And you never know how far away the ending is. Because it's not just finding the enemy in the ninth dungeon and to reach him you have to walk through the first eight dungeons. The opponent here is active during the whole plot.
Is there any game for the NES that has a comparable plot according to complexity?

Dizzy · 03-19-2009, 03:58 PM

Uhh...

What about the Dragon Warrior series?

DRW · 03-19-2009, 05:23 PM

I just watched a walkthrough of it, but still I must say that the plot of "Dragon Warrior" is not that complex. Sure, you can talk with a lot of people, but basically the status quo doesn't change: You get the backstory in the beginning, then you play. The playing consists of fighting, collecting items and talking with people, but the overall original situation doesn't change until you beat the final opponent. So, basically not more complex than "Super Mario Bros." where you start with the goal of saving the princess, then story-wise nothing really happens and in the end, you save the princess.
But "Final Fantasy Adventure" is completely different: You start as a fleeing gladiator and are almost killed by the Dark Lord. Then by chance you find a girl and you go with her to that old man. He recognizes that she's the one with the amulett and instructs you to go with her to his buddy. You spend the night in a hotel and then the girl is abducted. So, you have to find a mirror in a cave to pass the door in the hotel. A man helps you in the cave. You go back, defeat the vampire who kidnapped the girl and head for the old man's friend. He tells you about the backstory and suddenly the town is attacked. The man who helped you in the cave takes the girl away, but then you realize that it's Julius, the Dark Lord's second-in-command, who just helped you before to make sure that the girl is the right one that he needs to enter the Mana Tree. They flee to an airship. You manage to enter it and try to rescue the girl who gives you her amulett. Julius throws you down and when you wake up in another town, you see that the amulett was stolen by Amanda who gave it to a bad guy who tranformed her brother into a bird. But he broke his promise and now you and Amanda have to get a tear of the Medusa. During the fight, Amanda is bitten by the Medusa and becomes one herself. She gives you a tear and you are forced to kill her. You go back, tranform the brother back, fight the bad guy, but before he dies, he tells you that the amulett is already in Julius' hands again...
You see, the storyline takes turns. You always only know what to do next and sometimes your plans are ruined by something else. While in games like "Zelda" or "Dragon Warrior" you get the aim at the beginning, then there's the action without any real story advancement and only at the end it goes back to the main storyline when you reached your goal.
And that's why I'd like to know if there is a classic game that has a similar complex and unforseeableplot as "Final Fantasy Adventure"?

**Loot** · 03-20-2009, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRW

I just watched a walkthrough of it, but still I must say that the plot of "Dragon Warrior" is not that complex. Sure, you can talk with a lot of people, but basically the status quo doesn't change: You get the backstory in the beginning, then you play. The playing consists of fighting, collecting items and talking with people, but the overall original situation doesn't change until you beat the final opponent. So, basically not more complex than "Super Mario Bros." where you start with the goal of saving the princess, then story-wise nothing really happens and in the end, you save the princess.

Dragon Warrior IV was amazingly complex for its time. The game didn't even start until you went through the other party member's situations. Tomboy princess, traveling salesman buying a tunnel out, two dancing witches, the works. Until the last chapter where you finally started as the hero, the game completely shattered the cliché barrier that most RPGs faced. And even then it was pretty good.

Robotazy · 03-20-2009, 10:04 AM

This is actually pretty difficult, what with the Early Games just being all "there are baddies. Kill They Ass."

I guess Final Fantasy was pretty complicated, what with the "Beginner Boss that sucks" becoming the Final Boss, and creates an endless loop in time to become immortal.

I guess 2 and 3 were equally crazy, though I only saw so much of both.

Also. Megaman 5.

Vgfian · 03-20-2009, 10:55 AM

Quote:

"there are baddies. Kill They Ass."

^Best quote involving retro nintendo systems EVAR.

The most complex I've personally played ,(but unfortunately never finished was Final Fantasy Legends 2.
I can't really thinik of any others at the moment.

1-up Salesman · 03-20-2009, 04:04 PM

Ninja Gaiden, and 2 and 3. Though 3 wasn't as good as the others. I'm not really sure what else. Maniac Mansion is cool, but really the whole story is 'GO RESCUE SANDY GUYZ' though the alternate ending thing was new for its time.

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! · 03-20-2009, 05:45 PM

Complex story? Pokémon Yellow for the GB, I suppose?

I didn't see too many GB RPGs, so I think this game probably ranks up there in story.

**X-3** · 03-20-2009, 05:46 PM

just joking about mm6, obviously. I can make a post on how it could possibly be complex.
Final Fantasy got funky towards the end.

Final Fantasy 2 had a slightly more complex plot than, "crystal crystal crystal".

Panfan · 03-20-2009, 07:44 PM

I always get caught up in the story whenever I play "Bad Dudes."

PK FIRE! · 03-20-2009, 08:02 PM

I won't claime that it's the most complex but FFVI is fairly complex and had some rather surprizing plot twists that stand out even by today's standereds. Crhono Trigger is also fairly complex but that's a given as time travel is involved. I can't really think of any NES or GB games at the moment though.

- You stupid dog!

***Cosmonautical*** · 03-20-2009, 11:58 PM

The problem here being that you're limiting plot to in-game communication and script. Action is arguably the most important aspect of plot.

Ninja Gaiden is certainly near the top for scripted plotscenes.

I'd put my money on Crystalis for the NES, though.

Metal Man · 03-21-2009, 03:18 AM

The secret epic Duct Hunt RPG mode is beyond words and surpasses all games made after it.

A shame it requires chopping out half the pins on a NES cartridge to access >.> <.<

Speed · 03-23-2009, 07:35 PM

Ninja Gaiden.

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! · 03-24-2009, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metal Man

The secret epic Duct Hunt RPG mode is beyond words and surpasses all games made after it.

A shame it requires chopping out half the pins on a NES cartridge to access >.> <.<

I can hardly tell you're joking.

You are joking right? o_O

PK FIRE! · 03-24-2009, 05:04 PM

I don't know the whole bit about the dog being the evil overlord the whole time and sabotaging your effort to stop him from within the part was kinda expected.

- You stupid dog!

03-19-2009, 10:59 AM	#1
DRW Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Gender: Posts: 106 Thanks: 16 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Most complex storyline What would you say: Which games for a) the NES and b) classic black & white Game Boy have the most complex in-game storyline (i.e. the things that actually happen while playing, not the mere text of the manual or the introduction screen)?

03-19-2009, 02:34 PM	#3
X-3 Useful as an Owl Join Date: Jan 2004 Gender: Posts: 15,947 Thanks: 753 Thanked 1,213 Times in 790 Posts Blog Entries: 10	MegaMan 6. oh, that mysterious Mr. X! Final Fantasy was somewhat funky with it's ending, in my opinion. Last edited by X-3; 03-19-2009 at 02:39 PM.

03-19-2009, 02:24 PM	#2
*Marilink* Gotta catch 'em all! Supermod! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Location, Location. Gender: Posts: 29,118 Thanks: 2,535 Thanked 1,823 Times in 1,008 Posts	I'd think Ninja Gaiden would have to be up there...

03-19-2009, 03:22 PM	#4
Dizzy Podiaphobe Join Date: Oct 2007 Gender: Posts: 19,359 Thanks: 1,764 Thanked 1,161 Times in 804 Posts Blog Entries: 116	NES) Tie between Mega Man 4 and Maniac Mansion. GB) Evil Dead 2.

03-19-2009, 03:35 PM	#5
DRW Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Gender: Posts: 106 Thanks: 16 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	"Ninja Gaiden" might be a candidate. "Maniac Mansion" too. But "Mega Man 6"? Are you serious? Wasn't that just: "O.k., I'm Mr. X and the true genius. Beat my eight robot masters." Then in the end: "Hey, really I'm Dr. Wily. O.k., now you defeated me again and I'll go to prison." Not very complex to my opinion. Same goes for "Mega Man 4". What's complex there? I think the most complex story in an old school videogame is the one in "Mystic Quest"/"Final Fantasy Adventure". While the story in other games is very basic, even in games that, game-wise, have a similar complexity (in "Zelda" you are supposed to find the eight Triforce parts and when you did it, you enter the final dungeon. Even in "Final Fantasy" it's just about collecting all the orbs, as far as I know), the story in that game is unmatched. You never know what happens next. It's not just a far away aim that you have to reach where you always see how far you have come, no, it's a plot that could be made into a movie 1:1. And the plot plays into the direct gameplay. The plot elements are not just mere cutscenes, but in-game situations so to say. And you never know how far away the ending is. Because it's not just finding the enemy in the ninth dungeon and to reach him you have to walk through the first eight dungeons. The opponent here is active during the whole plot. Is there any game for the NES that has a comparable plot according to complexity?

03-19-2009, 03:58 PM	#6
Dizzy Podiaphobe Join Date: Oct 2007 Gender: Posts: 19,359 Thanks: 1,764 Thanked 1,161 Times in 804 Posts Blog Entries: 116	Uhh... What about the Dragon Warrior series?

03-19-2009, 05:23 PM	#7
DRW Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Gender: Posts: 106 Thanks: 16 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	I just watched a walkthrough of it, but still I must say that the plot of "Dragon Warrior" is not that complex. Sure, you can talk with a lot of people, but basically the status quo doesn't change: You get the backstory in the beginning, then you play. The playing consists of fighting, collecting items and talking with people, but the overall original situation doesn't change until you beat the final opponent. So, basically not more complex than "Super Mario Bros." where you start with the goal of saving the princess, then story-wise nothing really happens and in the end, you save the princess. But "Final Fantasy Adventure" is completely different: You start as a fleeing gladiator and are almost killed by the Dark Lord. Then by chance you find a girl and you go with her to that old man. He recognizes that she's the one with the amulett and instructs you to go with her to his buddy. You spend the night in a hotel and then the girl is abducted. So, you have to find a mirror in a cave to pass the door in the hotel. A man helps you in the cave. You go back, defeat the vampire who kidnapped the girl and head for the old man's friend. He tells you about the backstory and suddenly the town is attacked. The man who helped you in the cave takes the girl away, but then you realize that it's Julius, the Dark Lord's second-in-command, who just helped you before to make sure that the girl is the right one that he needs to enter the Mana Tree. They flee to an airship. You manage to enter it and try to rescue the girl who gives you her amulett. Julius throws you down and when you wake up in another town, you see that the amulett was stolen by Amanda who gave it to a bad guy who tranformed her brother into a bird. But he broke his promise and now you and Amanda have to get a tear of the Medusa. During the fight, Amanda is bitten by the Medusa and becomes one herself. She gives you a tear and you are forced to kill her. You go back, tranform the brother back, fight the bad guy, but before he dies, he tells you that the amulett is already in Julius' hands again... You see, the storyline takes turns. You always only know what to do next and sometimes your plans are ruined by something else. While in games like "Zelda" or "Dragon Warrior" you get the aim at the beginning, then there's the action without any real story advancement and only at the end it goes back to the main storyline when you reached your goal. And that's why I'd like to know if there is a classic game that has a similar complex and unforseeableplot as "Final Fantasy Adventure"?

03-20-2009, 10:04 AM	#9
Robotazy PRESS ANY KEY TO PANIC! Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: A Tiny Shed Gender: Posts: 16,483 Thanks: 529 Thanked 1,254 Times in 897 Posts Blog Entries: 46	This is actually pretty difficult, what with the Early Games just being all "there are baddies. Kill They Ass." I guess Final Fantasy was pretty complicated, what with the "Beginner Boss that sucks" becoming the Final Boss, and creates an endless loop in time to become immortal. I guess 2 and 3 were equally crazy, though I only saw so much of both. Also. Megaman 5.

03-20-2009, 04:04 PM	#11
1-up Salesman Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Letting you guys know that I'm planning on continuing Attack of the Spammers soon. Gender: Posts: 4,095 Thanks: 2,162 Thanked 250 Times in 194 Posts Blog Entries: 9	Ninja Gaiden, and 2 and 3. Though 3 wasn't as good as the others. I'm not really sure what else. Maniac Mansion is cool, but really the whole story is 'GO RESCUE SANDY GUYZ' though the alternate ending thing was new for its time.

03-20-2009, 05:45 PM	#12
I REALLY HATE POKEMON! Goku lives on the Sun Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: California, U.S.A Gender: Posts: 12,717 Thanks: 1,334 Thanked 275 Times in 234 Posts Blog Entries: 1	Complex story? Pokémon Yellow for the GB, I suppose? I didn't see too many GB RPGs, so I think this game probably ranks up there in story.

03-20-2009, 05:46 PM	#13
X-3 Useful as an Owl Join Date: Jan 2004 Gender: Posts: 15,947 Thanks: 753 Thanked 1,213 Times in 790 Posts Blog Entries: 10	just joking about mm6, obviously. I can make a post on how it could possibly be complex. Final Fantasy got funky towards the end. Final Fantasy 2 had a slightly more complex plot than, "crystal crystal crystal".

03-20-2009, 07:44 PM	#14
Panfan AND HE PRAYS Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Grayskull Gender: Posts: 18,806 Thanks: 1,405 Thanked 2,251 Times in 1,339 Posts Blog Entries: 15	I always get caught up in the story whenever I play "Bad Dudes."

03-20-2009, 08:02 PM	#15
PK FIRE! Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: On the run. Gender: Posts: 9,544 Thanks: 175 Thanked 150 Times in 120 Posts	I won't claime that it's the most complex but FFVI is fairly complex and had some rather surprizing plot twists that stand out even by today's standereds. Crhono Trigger is also fairly complex but that's a given as time travel is involved. I can't really think of any NES or GB games at the moment though. - You stupid dog!

03-20-2009, 11:58 PM	#16
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,100 Thanks: 2,156 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	The problem here being that you're limiting plot to in-game communication and script. Action is arguably the most important aspect of plot. Ninja Gaiden is certainly near the top for scripted plotscenes. I'd put my money on Crystalis for the NES, though.

03-21-2009, 03:18 AM	#17
Metal Man Fairy-Slaying Maniac Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: 1592 Miles Away From Here Gender: Posts: 18,062 Thanks: 148 Thanked 683 Times in 482 Posts	The secret epic Duct Hunt RPG mode is beyond words and surpasses all games made after it. A shame it requires chopping out half the pins on a NES cartridge to access >.> <.<

03-23-2009, 07:35 PM	#18
Speed Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: If there's a bright center to the universe I'm on the planet it's farthest from Gender: Posts: 3,747 Thanks: 1,598 Thanked 320 Times in 224 Posts Blog Entries: 1	Ninja Gaiden.

03-24-2009, 05:04 PM	#20
PK FIRE! Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: On the run. Gender: Posts: 9,544 Thanks: 175 Thanked 150 Times in 120 Posts	I don't know the whole bit about the dog being the evil overlord the whole time and sabotaging your effort to stop him from within the part was kinda expected. - You stupid dog!