Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards

***Marilink*** · 09-18-2011, 02:06 AM

For some reason, I decided I really wanted to play this game again. Well, in the course of a week, I 100%'d the sucker, and now I can get back to Chrono Trigger.

Overall, I like this game. Maybe there's a lot of nostalgia involved, but I always enjoy myself when I play it.

THINGS THIS GAME DID POORLY:

-Pace. Oh man, the pace is awful. Kirby needs to invest in a Segway or something because his "running" is painfully slow.

-Useless power-ups. Fire/Ice is terrible, Fire/Electric is awful, Bomb/Electric, and Cutter or Double Cutter are all just bad. I don't like having to avoid getting enemies just because I know their power is lame.

-Level design. Every level...is the same. Save for a few Waddle Dee and Dedede scenes (which are all the same as each other as well, but I digress), every level is ultimately pretty boring. What would have made this game fun is if you NEEDED certain power-ups to actually make progress. That way, I wouldn't just run through the whole level with the Rock/Spike Drill, I'd have to drop it and pick up a the Bomb/Fire Fireworks to break a block and advance. It would have made the game a little more interesting and less mind-less.

-Difficulty. Kirby games aren't known for their intensity, but this one is easy even for this series. And, unlike Kirby's Epic Yarn, there was nothing visually impressive or enticing about the world that kept you going. Also, the secrets were all incredibly obvious. Some of those power-ups (the bow-and-arrow, for example) could have made for some pretty sweet mini-games or bonus zones or something.

THINGS THIS GAME DID WELL

-Cuteness. Come on, it's a Kirby game.

-Music. A lot of the music in this game is really great (namely the Factory Investigation, the 02 Fight theme, and the Snow levels). I'm glad I rediscovered it.

-POWER COMBINING. By far my favorite part of the game, and the real reason I wanted to replay it. Unfortunately, with the poor level design I mentioned earlier, this concept was terribly underutilized. They could have done a lot better with it, but I made myself switch powers more and do different things and I really enjoyed it.

-Giving me a nostalgic jolt. Yeah, not a very good criterion, but just felt like a kid again when I played it. And I think I used the Fire/Spike Bow and Arrow power-up just as much (in other words, all the time).

So, what did you guys think of Kirby 64? Likes/dislikes? How wrong am I? Let me know.

Closin' the post with my favorite song in the game.

Click to view video.

***Booyakasha*** · 09-18-2011, 02:35 AM

How about them minigames? Jumping one was pretty tame, but fruit-catching was great, and that block-dropping lunacy kept us hooked for hours on end up at camp.

Music was pretty solid. 'Ruins' took the cake, as far as I'm concerned.

***Marilink*** · 09-18-2011, 10:26 AM

Oh wow, I totally forgot about the minigames. They were pretty good from what I remember, but I should do them again.

And yes, Ruins is most definitely my second favorite track. I could listen to that one repeat for quite some time, I love the chimes.

Maximum Spider · 09-18-2011, 10:52 AM

Rock Star and Quiet Forest are easily my favorite songs in the game.

Oh, and who else remembers Ice/Electric, which turned you into a fridge that could kill your enemies with food, that you could always use to heal yourself as well? I remember abusing that to just breeze by most of the game.

**Valigarmander** · 09-18-2011, 11:29 AM

Rock Star and Shiver Star were great tracks. The Giant Spark, Fireworks, and Needle Points combos were probably the most useful.

It's a short, fun little game. I have it on the VC, and I'll replay it every now and then for nostalgia.

**Loot** · 09-18-2011, 11:30 AM

>retro
>Kirby 64

Kirby 64 was fun, especially the Copy system. 02 kinda scared the crap out of me when I first faced it, though.

**X-3** · 09-18-2011, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marilink

What would have made this game fun is if you NEEDED certain power-ups to actually make progress. That way, I wouldn't just run through the whole level with the Rock/Spike Drill, I'd have to drop it and pick up a the Bomb/Fire Fireworks to break a block and advance. It would have made the game a little more interesting and less mind-less.

That might have clashed with the whole "bring in a combined power to get the Crystal Shard" thing though.

Pace in this game was way too slow. I think Dreamland 3 is the same.

Maximum Spider · 09-18-2011, 01:14 PM

Something I noticed is how the Ripple Star theme and the Unsettling Opponent theme From Earthbound sound very similar.

***Marilink*** · 09-18-2011, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X-3

That might have clashed with the whole "bring in a combined power to get the Crystal Shard" thing though.

Yeah, but they could have worked around that too. Just a little more thought involved in the making of the game would have been cool, IMO.

Ice/Electric was extremely cheap, and I also abused the Bird Form of the Rock/Cutter combo.

***Cosmonautical*** · 09-19-2011, 01:05 AM

Basically, there are two ideal Kirby games: Dreamland, and Adventure. Amazing Mirror took the whole Metroidvania style to the point where it file like it was accomplishing something, but unlike Kirby 64, the actual "acquire this power to go here" element is actually too restrictive. It follows the Adventure formula for action pretty well, though, and is actually a bit tougher.

Basically, I think it's okay for a game to be "easy" but you need to keep the pace up, build dynamic and interesting levels with branching paths, and don't force the powerup thing. Kirby's Adventure took the powers and actually made them all fairly hazardous to use - you didn't put yourself in that kind of danger just to inhale the enemies in Dreamland.

The powerup thing, and this needs to be emphasized, needs more thought put into it in every Kirby game. Hazard elements like the sleep one are great, because they can be used to put a strategic element into gameplay. I think that's underutilized. Levels need a lot of vertical movement as well as horizontal, and 64 is the worst culprit with that.

And sometimes a Kirby game just wants to be Dreamland - to inhale enemies and use them as weapons, purely. We haven't had the privilege in too many of these. Some solid level design with decent bosses and variety in enemies is the only thing this formula actually needs. The powerup function is currently getting in the way of that, because swallowing an enemy in caution means you'll have to cancel a power. I'd like to see some more creativity from Nintendo in this regard, perhaps with game design that can be played as both "Vanilla" Kirby and "Powerup" Kirby.

Dizzy · 09-19-2011, 01:07 AM

The pace makes it hard for me to play, much like Epic Yarn does.

Maybe if I had it for an emulator or something, I could alter it to play slightly faster.

**Loot** · 09-19-2011, 01:12 AM

I honestly never found much replay in Dream Land. As soon as the game was done twice, that was it. Nothing much left to find, even though I really enjoyed the actual stages and their atmosphere. Granted, I will admit I was spoiled by the copy system because I had Kirby's Adventure on my NES before getting Dream Land from my dad, but still, I can see why the copy system became a staple of the game.

Ironically, Dream Land 2 I was really impressed by the copy system, albeit not the stages.

Antisocial · 09-19-2011, 01:28 PM

I got all the enemy cards in this game.

u jelly?

***Marilink*** · 09-19-2011, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dizzy

The pace makes it hard for me to play, much like Epic Yarn does.

Maybe if I had it for an emulator or something, I could alter it to play slightly faster.

I didn't find Epic Yarn's pace to be at all too slow.

AI: I actually played Adventure before I played Dreamland, and the lack of copy-powers makes me feel like there's just something missing. I can't say I've ever made it through the game.

***Cosmonautical*** · 09-20-2011, 12:51 AM

*shrug* I never wanted any changes to that formula, it works fine for me.

***Marilink*** · 09-20-2011, 08:01 AM

Understandable. It was just that, in my mind, power copying was just a very Kirby thing.

***Cosmonautical*** · 09-20-2011, 12:11 PM

Yeah, I can imagine a lot of Mega Man fans being irate when they announced that MM9 wouldn't have the Mega Buster in it. I think it was a stroke of genius to scale it back, though, since the core gameplay had really changed since the height of the series.

Dizzy · 09-20-2011, 12:19 PM

^I was more annoyed with the lack of sliding. I mean, yeah, Proto Man had both, but he's a pansy who can't take a hit.

And by EY's pace, I just mean that enemies weren't as much of a threat as usual, and it's hard to maintain that 'action' state of mind when you're ultimate goal is just to collect all monehz.

***Ace Mercury*** · 09-20-2011, 01:18 PM

I loved the power combination system too. At first it was cool trying out all the different combinations (my favourite was spark + ice = refrigerator), but it eventually turned into always use the one combination that was the best (I liked bomb + cutter = explody ninja stars).

***Marilink*** · 09-20-2011, 04:12 PM

Ace: I used Ninja Stars a lot, but I think I used the Fire Arrows just because it's a little more challenging to use them effectively.

AI: Totally with you, I liked how they took away charging and sliding in MM9. Sliding was nice and all, but they just designed levels where you would never need it, so I hardly noticed its absence. I felt like I was playing MM2 again.

09-19-2011, 01:28 PM	#13
Antisocial Janitor Join Date: May 2000 Gender: Posts: 11,471 Thanks: 14 Thanked 1,296 Times in 536 Posts	This is definitely something to be proud of. I got all the enemy cards in this game. u jelly?

09-18-2011, 02:35 AM	#2
*Booyakasha* SuperMod of War Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Wisconsinland Gender: Posts: 9,945 Thanks: 157 Thanked 1,481 Times in 763 Posts	How about them minigames? Jumping one was pretty tame, but fruit-catching was great, and that block-dropping lunacy kept us hooked for hours on end up at camp. Music was pretty solid. 'Ruins' took the cake, as far as I'm concerned.

09-18-2011, 10:26 AM	#3
*Marilink* Gotta catch 'em all! Supermod! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Location, Location. Gender: Posts: 29,118 Thanks: 2,535 Thanked 1,822 Times in 1,007 Posts	Oh wow, I totally forgot about the minigames. They were pretty good from what I remember, but I should do them again. And yes, Ruins is most definitely my second favorite track. I could listen to that one repeat for quite some time, I love the chimes.

09-18-2011, 10:52 AM	#4
Maximum Spider Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: I'll take Street Fighter over Dragonball any day. Gender: Posts: 2,549 Thanks: 0 Thanked 191 Times in 126 Posts	Rock Star and Quiet Forest are easily my favorite songs in the game. Oh, and who else remembers Ice/Electric, which turned you into a fridge that could kill your enemies with food, that you could always use to heal yourself as well? I remember abusing that to just breeze by most of the game.

09-18-2011, 11:29 AM	#5
Valigarmander The Bee's Knees Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The land of rain and trees (Oregon) Gender: Posts: 29,755 Thanks: 1,649 Thanked 5,700 Times in 2,580 Posts Blog Entries: 20	Rock Star and Shiver Star were great tracks. The Giant Spark, Fireworks, and Needle Points combos were probably the most useful. It's a short, fun little game. I have it on the VC, and I'll replay it every now and then for nostalgia.

09-18-2011, 11:30 AM	#6
Loot Apparently I'm a mod? Join Date: May 2001 Location: LEGITIMATE BUSINESS Gender: Posts: 13,208 Thanks: 236 Thanked 1,237 Times in 659 Posts	>retro >Kirby 64 Kirby 64 was fun, especially the Copy system. 02 kinda scared the crap out of me when I first faced it, though.

09-18-2011, 01:14 PM	#8
Maximum Spider Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: I'll take Street Fighter over Dragonball any day. Gender: Posts: 2,549 Thanks: 0 Thanked 191 Times in 126 Posts	Something I noticed is how the Ripple Star theme and the Unsettling Opponent theme From Earthbound sound very similar.

09-19-2011, 01:05 AM	#10
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,100 Thanks: 2,151 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	Basically, there are two ideal Kirby games: Dreamland, and Adventure. Amazing Mirror took the whole Metroidvania style to the point where it file like it was accomplishing something, but unlike Kirby 64, the actual "acquire this power to go here" element is actually too restrictive. It follows the Adventure formula for action pretty well, though, and is actually a bit tougher. Basically, I think it's okay for a game to be "easy" but you need to keep the pace up, build dynamic and interesting levels with branching paths, and don't force the powerup thing. Kirby's Adventure took the powers and actually made them all fairly hazardous to use - you didn't put yourself in that kind of danger just to inhale the enemies in Dreamland. The powerup thing, and this needs to be emphasized, needs more thought put into it in every Kirby game. Hazard elements like the sleep one are great, because they can be used to put a strategic element into gameplay. I think that's underutilized. Levels need a lot of vertical movement as well as horizontal, and 64 is the worst culprit with that. And sometimes a Kirby game just wants to be Dreamland - to inhale enemies and use them as weapons, purely. We haven't had the privilege in too many of these. Some solid level design with decent bosses and variety in enemies is the only thing this formula actually needs. The powerup function is currently getting in the way of that, because swallowing an enemy in caution means you'll have to cancel a power. I'd like to see some more creativity from Nintendo in this regard, perhaps with game design that can be played as both "Vanilla" Kirby and "Powerup" Kirby.

09-19-2011, 01:07 AM	#11
Dizzy Podiaphobe Join Date: Oct 2007 Gender: Posts: 19,359 Thanks: 1,764 Thanked 1,161 Times in 804 Posts Blog Entries: 116	The pace makes it hard for me to play, much like Epic Yarn does. Maybe if I had it for an emulator or something, I could alter it to play slightly faster.

09-19-2011, 01:12 AM	#12
Loot Apparently I'm a mod? Join Date: May 2001 Location: LEGITIMATE BUSINESS Gender: Posts: 13,208 Thanks: 236 Thanked 1,237 Times in 659 Posts	I honestly never found much replay in Dream Land. As soon as the game was done twice, that was it. Nothing much left to find, even though I really enjoyed the actual stages and their atmosphere. Granted, I will admit I was spoiled by the copy system because I had Kirby's Adventure on my NES before getting Dream Land from my dad, but still, I can see why the copy system became a staple of the game. Ironically, Dream Land 2 I was really impressed by the copy system, albeit not the stages.

09-20-2011, 12:51 AM	#15
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,100 Thanks: 2,151 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	shrug I never wanted any changes to that formula, it works fine for me.

09-20-2011, 08:01 AM	#16
*Marilink* Gotta catch 'em all! Supermod! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Location, Location. Gender: Posts: 29,118 Thanks: 2,535 Thanked 1,822 Times in 1,007 Posts	Understandable. It was just that, in my mind, power copying was just a very Kirby thing.

09-20-2011, 12:11 PM	#17
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,100 Thanks: 2,151 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	Yeah, I can imagine a lot of Mega Man fans being irate when they announced that MM9 wouldn't have the Mega Buster in it. I think it was a stroke of genius to scale it back, though, since the core gameplay had really changed since the height of the series.

09-20-2011, 12:19 PM	#18
Dizzy Podiaphobe Join Date: Oct 2007 Gender: Posts: 19,359 Thanks: 1,764 Thanked 1,161 Times in 804 Posts Blog Entries: 116	^I was more annoyed with the lack of sliding. I mean, yeah, Proto Man had both, but he's a pansy who can't take a hit. And by EY's pace, I just mean that enemies weren't as much of a threat as usual, and it's hard to maintain that 'action' state of mind when you're ultimate goal is just to collect all monehz.

09-20-2011, 01:18 PM	#19
*Ace Mercury* Marshmallow Knight ☆ Supermod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Southern Ontario Gender: Posts: 23,275 Thanks: 568 Thanked 3,297 Times in 1,582 Posts Blog Entries: 1	I loved the power combination system too. At first it was cool trying out all the different combinations (my favourite was spark + ice = refrigerator), but it eventually turned into always use the one combination that was the best (I liked bomb + cutter = explody ninja stars).

09-20-2011, 04:12 PM	#20
*Marilink* Gotta catch 'em all! Supermod! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Location, Location. Gender: Posts: 29,118 Thanks: 2,535 Thanked 1,822 Times in 1,007 Posts	Ace: I used Ninja Stars a lot, but I think I used the Fire Arrows just because it's a little more challenging to use them effectively. AI: Totally with you, I liked how they took away charging and sliding in MM9. Sliding was nice and all, but they just designed levels where you would never need it, so I hardly noticed its absence. I felt like I was playing MM2 again.